Roman/Byzantine ring? medieval or sun culture?

[witgar]

Hi,

I have this oval shaped ring (beneath it's thicker, like a bit of a hump) here which I believe to be Roman - could you guys help me find out:
- which material it is?
- what do the marks mean all over the ring? on the table: could it be a stylized sun? And on the bezel?
- Is it truly Roman or does somebody have an idea of the period?

The dimensions are : 1.8cm (0.7inch) wide and 2.1cm (0.8 inch) high.

Thanks a lot and keep up the good hunting,
Witgar

 

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[Montana Jim]

Re: Roman ring?

After looking at some on-line - I'd say it sure resembles like many I've just looked at. It may be bronze, but hard to tell from the picture.

Try e-bay which seems to have several for sale and see what you think.

 

[BioProfessor]

Re: Roman ring?

It is a seal ring. Possibly Roman but likely medieval. May be hard to find one like it.

Daryl

 

[lamar]

Re: Roman ring?

Dear witgar;
From your photos posted, I would say offhandedly that the ring was from the Byzantine culture, due to it's design and craftmanship. Also, it appears to be either copper or bronze, which also marks it as a very good candidate as being from Byzantium. The marks on the ring were to add texture to the piece, in much the same way that modern jewelry is textured, using a variety of techniques. That was one very good find, my friend. Congratulations!
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[One mans trash...]

Re: Roman ring?

I'd guess it's bronze. Cold worked and carved. My first impression is that it was an attempt to emulate a stone mounting. As if it was done by someone who couldn't afford or make one with a mounted stone. A poor man's ring. The carving of the face of the "stone" might be an attempt to look like the gleam from stone facets. It takes little to cold work a ring. You just have to know, as most everyone did then, that copper alloys harden as they're beaten and have to be reheated from time to time while working. When I look at it from the side, it certainly looks like it was modeled on a flat-cut mounting. That said, I don't know how one date's such a thing. But I find it more attractive as a roughly made model of a finer ring with setting than I think I would the real thing. More human interest.

 

[lamar]

Re: Roman ring?

Dear witgar;
Looking closer at the face, there appears to be a Chi-Rho Christogram carved into it. Could you take an additional photo of the ring's face, with as much detail as possible? If this is in fact a Chi-Rho, then the ring can be dated as sometime after the 9th century A.D. my friend.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[witgar]

Re: Roman ring?

Thanks for the hints already.

I guess it's not a PX (Chi Ro) sign because the round form on top of a P is a bit missing.
Maybe the line beneath refers to the earth and the cross to the sun or a star? Just an idea.

Here are some pics of the surface:

 

[BioProfessor]

Re: Roman ring?

The Byzantine period is still Roman.

Take a look at this site for some examples if Roman Bronze rings.

http://www.romancoins.net/forsale rings.htm

I'll also post an image of some others that match yours in their style.

Daryl

 

[lamar]

Re: Roman ring?

Dear BioProfessor;
I do understand the Byzantine Period was Roman, however I am trying to be just a tad more specific than to merely ambigiously classify a piece as *Roman* since this covers a rather long time spread.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[Woodland Detectors]

Re: Roman ring?

wow

 

[BioProfessor]

Re: Roman ring?

No problem. Not trying to WHACK you or anything. Just some information that hopefully helps others understand that they are not two different periods or people.

Sorry for any lumps, bumps, or bruises. Not intentional.

Daryl

 

[CRUSADER]

Re: Roman ring?

Where was it found? Looks bronze.

 

[witgar]

Re: Roman ring?- emperor or gladiatior

Sorry guys i didn't specify more
It was found in the Balkan.
so the ones saying its Byzantine have one point ;-)

Now, since I personally,humbly, think it was Roman/Byzantine taken into consideration the location, i think the era might be 4th century?
Late Roman imperial time: due to the craftmanship was more levelled at that time,
might be made in the way of "cold working the cupper" as some fellow Hunter remarked. It might be a bronze/cupper alloy, because of this type of oxidation, or am i wrong?
So indeed maybe 'poor man's ' ring but in my opinion quite detailed (like for a soldier it would be to much detailed) so the decoration on it puts us in a later time frame then.

I think the figure on it :
1)might be a stylised sun ('sol invictus'=unconquered,unbeaten sun) and the stripe under it the horizon. Now i remember in the 300's B.C. there was an emperor from half egyptian descendancy
he introduced a new religion based on the sun adoration like in farao times. He shrewdly mixed those elements with existing 'sun' culture adoration of roman emperors as Appollo(like Nero earlier). and forced this new religion upon the people.
So this stylised 'sun' might be a hint its from that time.indeed late imperial.

2) a second thought i have, still in the 'sun' area, is an argument from a ring seller: he said that the sun is the symbol of the gladiators (cfr. as they stood in the arena, the 'unbeaten sun') and the mark under this sun is a KILL MARK (indeed people,blood on my fingers ) (each time a gladiator won a battle he put one mark one his ring).
Though, i failed to find information on the existence of rings worn by gladiators for this purpose.

3) maybe something to do with the Mithras culture? (popular with soldiers, and thus gladiators as well, due to this kind of religion were power was central.
The possible fact that it comes from a person like this might explain why its in cupper/bronze as most soldier rings and the like.and might explain the 'poor man's ' theory here above as well.


Does these new theories put another light on the case for you people?
fresh ideas? i'm getting intriqued by it.

Thanks alot in advance for your great help and tips!

 

[BioProfessor]

Re: Roman ring?

I might equate "ring seller" to "snake oil salesman" if someone is tying to sell me something.

Many, Many, Many artifacts coming out of the area are not what they seem. There are actually conventions held in large cities in nice hotels where people come to buy the "things that never were." It is a real problem.

Daryl

 

[bigjohn835]

Re: Roman ring?

Could it be a symbol for a roman god? It almost looks like the egyptian symbol for Ra... the all seeing eye of god. But that's the wrong area. Cool ring either way.

 

[La Beep]

Re: Roman ring?

Crude church seal?

 

[witgar]

Re: Roman ring?

I think we can exclude the Chi- Rho sign possibility and the chruch seal theory too.
I invesitgated it closer with magnifiying diamond loup.
The vertical lign (the 'P') is just a vertical lign.
The line is quite deeply engraved so the curve of the P would be clear as well.

I neither THINK it isn't a seal because the negative isn't deep enough, in comparison to other 'Roman' seal rings.Also the lines in negative are too close to eachother for a good stamping reproduction.

"Bigjohn" might be right with the egytian part,that it symbolises a sun. It's also my first thought (see my comment above.
That's why the engraving of the star/sun is quite 'loosely'.If you look closer the P and the X dont cross in the middle. And all the lines aren't from the same length
THUS i might think they symbolize RAYS.

Who follows this theory? Or am i just a blabbing old bugger?

 

[BioProfessor]

Just for information, for Roman rings the term seal and signet are used interchangeably.

Daryl

 

[BioProfessor]

Not in my world. The one where the sky is blue.

Daryl

 

[Alchemy]

Looks Byzantine to me too

The mark on it may not be "something" or mean anything, other then the ring wearers own mark, their signature if you will...

And the terms "Romans" and "Tony Curtis" are also interchangeable.

I don't get it, since he isn't Italian...might have made sense or been funny if he was, but he's not

Or, was it cause he's been in so many "Roman" movies? lol...well, anyway, the joke was lost on me!