Romania metal detecting question.

[JustKeepDigging]

Hello all! I had a quick question in regards to metal detecting in Romania. My fathers side of the family lives in Romania and they own a bunch of land. They told me to just buy a ticket and I could detect all I wanted. Now, I read online that it may be illegal? Is that so even if I'm on my own land? What's the best way going about this?

 

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[Mackaydon]

I don't know sqat about the MD laws in Romania, but to be safe, I'd ask someone on your father's side to make inquiry with the police (Politia de Patrimoniu) for their response; specifically MD-ing on one's own property. I doubt if it wil be an automatic "OK". This would include what permission or papers do you need to even bring in a MD.
Don......

 

[WaterScoop]

Romania law is permissive but only if you authorise your detector at the Police (1 detector / 1 person only) and if you are a citizen. It is best not to detect as a foriegner and especially alone, communism has left its mark on the authorities.

Only romanian citizens have the right to obtain a permanent metal detecting permit because you are required to present (when requesting said permit) your romanian ID plus a criminal records file which you get from the local Police.

Here is the Government ordnances in Romanian hope you can translate it if not ask Google...LOL

Ordinul Nr. 251/409/2275/M 115 din 31 mai 2004 pentru aprobarea Normelor tehnice privind detinerea si comercializarea detectoarelor de metale, Ordonanta Guvernului nr. 43/2000 privind protectia patrimoniului arheologic si declararea unor situri arheologice ca zone de interes national, Legea 182/2000 republicata in 2008 si Legea 422/2001 republicata in 2006.


Hope that helps

HERE is an article

HERE is a Wikipedia listing on coins in Romania you might find interesting to get your sights set to going

I was born in Romania and REMEMBER the rich history that Romania has with Dacia and the Romans. From what I can tell they have loosened the laws a bit they use to have laws that outlawed metal detectors and if you were caught with one you would spend a min of 1 year in jail and lose your metal detector.

I wish you great success!

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I don't know sqat about the MD laws in Romania, but to be safe, I'd ask someone on your father's side to make inquiry with the police (Politia de Patrimoniu) for their response; specifically MD-ing on one's own property. I doubt if it wil be an automatic "OK". This would include what permission or papers do you need to even bring in a MD.
Don......

Hey there mackaydon. Your answer is par-for-the-course when the question of ANY location comes up. Whether it be a type land in the USA, or another country , or ... whatever. The easy answer is: Ask. Who could argue with that ? I mean, .. .who better to know and ask, than the entity themselves, eh ? Therefore the answer rolls off the tongue.

Ask a border consulate, or a cop, or a city hall there, or a lawyer there, or an archaeologist there, etc... Right ?

Here's the problem: I'll bet you dollars to donuts that you will get a different answer from ANYONE you ask, simply depending on who you ask, how you phrase the question, and their mental perception of it. I mean, let's be dreadfully honest: We've seen this psychology over and over again at locations here: One person gets a "yes", another gets a "no", and ... meanwhile ... oldtimers who have never had any problems md'ing are scratching their heads saying "since when?".

And when it comes to finding some cultural heritage laws (that would *seem* to apply, and you've found a bored desk-jockey to point you to them), well gee: SO TOO does the same tend to happen here or anywhere. Some border lawyer cop or whoever points you to ARPA. Or to "disturb and alter". Or to "lost & found laws", blah blah IT'S NEVER ENDING. You can ALWAYS find a cop to tell you that you can't even pick your own nose or spit on sidewalks, etc...

So to the OP, I would turn the question around back on you: What did you "read on-line" that said it's illegal ? I'll bet you dollars to donuts it's a link to someone who fell victim to the very psychology I spelled out above. Ie.: they went and asked, and found someone to give their 'pressing question' a "safe answer". I may be wrong. Perhaps there is something specific that actually says "no metal detecting". If so, please provide the link you found. And even then: Be aware that whatever might sound "dire" might only apply to public land .

Why can't a farmer go look on his own land for the plow blade or wedding ring he just lost ? And also be aware that some laws in some countries that DO admittedly address border to border cultural heritage, often are just for ancient stuff. Same mindset of ARPA (where ours is 50 or 100 yrs.), yet in some of the European countries ... "old" is 500 yrs or more, blah blah .

I know someone who detected in Romania. But that was 20 to 25 yrs. ago. He found ancient coins. They detected on private farmer's fields with permission. They had no problems. Who knows? Perhaps they didn't ask enough questions of bored archies ? As to the reception they got with the locals and the farmers: They were well received. People loved to talk to Americans, were curious how it worked and what you found, etc.... Utterly no problems. That was not too long after the iron curtain fell. So perhaps this fascination with technology, and the admiration for western toys and culture is different now. I dunno.

Just go there and help those family members find that "wedding ring they just lost". Don't over-think it. JMHO

 

[WaterScoop]

Tom,

You do bring up some good points . The one challenge I see is that the freedom many take for granted here is still not available around the rest of the world the way we may think it might be.

Romania is a recently liberated from communism country. I lived there until I was ten. I witnessed the secret police come in the middle of the night in their black leather trench coats and automatic Kalashnikovs pull my grandfather out of bed make him Kneal on the living room floor while pointing a pistol at his temple interrogating him and my grandmother screaming not to kill him. I was 9.

Why did they come you ask...because the neighbors turned my grandfather in for listening to Voice of America on his short wave radio. Their reward for turning my grandfather in was 20 kilos of fresh meat.

So if your friend that was detecting would have been seen by someone who wanted a reward then your friend would have had to spend a lot of nights at the gray bar hotel.

So yes the current government and their police is still corrupt. Paying bribes is still going on today on a black market.
You can keep it hush hush and risk it but “the turn in your neighbor for a reward or a favor from th local police” in the rural parts of the country where there are open pastures with amazing Roman treasures waiting to be found is still alive and well just like in th communist time yesterday.

Just wanting to provide an eyewitness account rather then hear say off an old internet post.

Do GOOD ALWAYS!

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Good post Waterscoop. And everything you're saying has been said of Mexico as well. Where the subject of "legality" sometimes comes up on forums : Someone will, like you did here, point out the corruption of Mexican cops, officials, etc... Yet md'ing is a common there.

Of COURSE "don't throw caution to the wind". If looking for one's own lost wedding ring with a metal detector is a crime here and now today, then OF COURSE don't do it. But as of yet: We have failed to see any law that says "no md'ing". Perhaps it exists. Hopefully the O.P. chimes in with a link to what he found on the web, that he alluded to.

 

[WaterScoop]

Here is a good read on
Laws Regarding Metal Detecting on private property, State property, and Federal property

Even here in the states sometimes when we think we have Rights we are actually quite limited

This information is from the Society of American Archeology so it pretty legit.

Cheers

 

[Tom_in_CA]

... This information is from the Society of American Archeology so it pretty legit.....

Ha, I beg to differ The source of the information would be the FIRST indication that what you're about to read is highly skewed. I mean, go figure: Archaeologists HATE md'rs. So what do you THINK they're going to conclude, when navigating various grey area laws that no one except them cares about ?

Let me give you an example: If you were to ask a P.E.T.A. representative (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals): "Hi. Can I leave my pet bunny in the car while I run into 7-11 to get a soda?". What do you think they would say ? They would screech: "NNOOOO! The bunny will suffer in the hot sun! You will be arrested for animal cruelty! Your car will be confiscated!" etc.... Heck, they may even cite some dire sounding laws to back up what they're saying.

But seriously: What did you EXPECT to come from an animal right wacko advocate ? Does anyone besides them think that way ? No. SO TOO do I put little stock into what some archies say. Sorry for the rant, but ... no ... I do not put much stock into that link.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

One little example (but the list would be lengthy) of their bias and silly-ness, is this :

When you click to see what they say about private property, here's a quote lifted from that section : "It is legal to collect artifacts from the surface of private property, IF you have written permission from the landowner." Two things strike me as nonsensical and/or false:

a) Note the word "surface" there. Seems to imply you only eyeball on top, but not "dig", right ? No doubt they are getting this stretch-of-logic from indian arrowheads (where such a law might exist). But the archies, bless their little hearts, lead you to believe it's ALL artifacts (eg.: coins, relics, etc.... too). That hogwash. You can dig all you want on private property with permission.

b) that this "permission" must be in writing. That too is false. A verbal "yes" is recognized as a contract. You don't need a "written" permission to be on someone's property. No-more-so than someone coming to the Christmas party at your house needed your "written permission" to be inside your house. Or use your bathroom while at the party, etc... So again: You can clearly see their bias . And stumbling blocks they'd love for you to jump through, before doing your "evil hobby".

 

[WaterScoop]

Tom my post was not disagreeing with you brother...LOL

My comment about being a legit only references that these PETA style guys love to refference laws.
it was only posted to show that if you let these “PETA”style organization legislate they will impose their new found power on the masses so speak up if you don’t want their will imposed.

Keep in mind we can be morally right but technically wrong according to the written law.

We are in an era of right is wrong and wrong is right. End times according biblical scripture.

People forget the power they truly hold.

 

[JustKeepDigging]

Wow thanks guys! I think I may just ship the detector there. If it works out, I'll just head over and start detecting... my family that lives there, has been living in that particular village for over 80+ years. Everybody knows everybody, and it's a very social community. He lives fairly far though from any city, just a small village. I think I'm gonna give it a shot and see what happens lol.

 

[cudamark]

Hopefully, someone who has recently detected in Romania will pipe up here. Nothing like real life experience to see how the laws actually apply.....if they even do. I'm another voice saying not to overthink this. I prefer to look laws up myself rather than get someone else's interpretation as to what is legal, moral, ethical, or not.

 

[WaterScoop]

Wow thanks guys! I think I may just ship the detector there. If it works out, I'll just head over and start detecting... my family that lives there, has been living in that particular village for over 80+ years. Everybody knows everybody, and it's a very social community. He lives fairly far though from any city, just a small village. I think I'm gonna give it a shot and see what happens lol.

Go for it bring home the GOLD!

 

[JustKeepDigging]

Hopefully, someone who has recently detected in Romania will pipe up here. Nothing like real life experience to see how the laws actually apply.....if they even do. I'm another voice saying not to overthink this. I prefer to look laws up myself rather than get someone else's interpretation as to what is legal, moral, ethical, or not.

Do you think I should risk taking it with me in my luggage? I was reading about the possibility of the Romanian customs confiscating it. Maybe shipping it there is the better choice?

 

[WaterScoop]

Shipping and declare it as a gift. If you bring it in you are a foreigner with a metalDetector without proper paperwork. The will "hold it" for you until such time that you do. Let me tell you bureaucracy like they have in Romania is hard to find.You will waste your time that you would metal detecting getting paperwork and bailing your metal detector.

Let your family pull the paperwork in their name and have the be with you when you detect.

Cheers and Good luck

Waterscoop

 

[JustKeepDigging]

Shipping and declare it as a gift. If you bring it in you are a foreigner with a metalDetector without proper paperwork. The will "hold it" for you until such time that you do. Let me tell you bureaucracy like they have in Romania is hard to find.You will waste your time that you would metal detecting getting paperwork and bailing your metal detector.

Let your family pull the paperwork in their name and have the be with you when you detect.

Cheers and Good luck

Waterscoop

Thanks waterscoop! If I end up going, I'll be sure to post my finds.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Do you think I should risk taking it with me in my luggage? I was reading about the possibility of the Romanian customs confiscating it. Maybe shipping it there is the better choice?

Since when is mere possession of a metal detector , in any flight, in stow-away luggage in the cargo-hold, illegal ? Any more so than any other item of electronics that people nowadays have scores of (computers, musical devices, medical gear, etc...). I can think of places where you're not supposed to be in possession of one (historical monuments, or whatever). But in cargo , disassembled, I can not think of any airline rule that says anything, to any destination, as "no detectors". If someone has something to the contrary, I would love to see it.

Seems to me that the objective of baggage screening is drugs and weapons.

But if you're still skittish: You could always simply ship it to yourself via mailing. And it would be treated as any one of a million electronic objects that are shipped daily , in normal mail, around the world. Just take the batteries out so it doesn't accidentally turn on during shipment, haha

 

[cudamark]

Since when is mere possession of a metal detector , in any flight, in stow-away luggage in the cargo-hold, illegal ? Any more so than any other item of electronics that people nowadays have scores of (computers, musical devices, medical gear, etc...). I can think of places where you're not supposed to be in possession of one (historical monuments, or whatever). But in cargo , disassembled, I can not think of any airline rule that says anything, to any destination, as "no detectors". If someone has something to the contrary, I would love to see it.

Seems to me that the objective of baggage screening is drugs and weapons.

But if you're still skittish: You could always simply ship it to yourself via mailing. And it would be treated as any one of a million electronic objects that are shipped daily , in normal mail, around the world. Just take the batteries out so it doesn't accidentally turn on during shipment, haha

The problem might be when you go through customs and have to declare the contents of your luggage. As for shipping the detector......if your machine uses Li-ion or Li-po batteries, you need to keep them in the unit. You can't ship them separate unless you go through the hazardous materials process. According to what I've read in the Airline shipping rules, you can only have one of those batteries per unit, it has to be installed inside the unit, and the unit has to be disabled in some way so that it can't accidentally be turned on. What I do is tape a piece of cardboard over the control pad to prevent the buttons from being pushed.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

The problem might be when you go through customs and have to declare the contents of your luggage. As for shipping the detector......if your machine uses Li-ion or Li-po batteries, you need to keep them in the unit. You can't ship them separate unless you go through the hazardous materials process. According to what I've read in the Airline shipping rules, you can only have one of those batteries per unit, it has to be installed inside the unit, and the unit has to be disabled in some way so that it can't accidentally be turned on. What I do is tape a piece of cardboard over the control pad to prevent the buttons from being pushed.

cuda-mark, all that you're saying could be true of electronic devices, in general. But it seemed to me that the question was about detectors specifically. As if (power source aside), metal detectors are/were somehow seen as illegal or something.

 

[cudamark]

I got the impression that being a foreigner and just owning one in that country without a permit was illegal. Maybe I'm mistaken. We actually have places here where the mere possession of a detector in certain areas is illegal. It doesn't even have to be assembled or working. Now, I've never heard of anyone getting into serious trouble under those conditions, but, It seems to me they could make an issue of it if they wanted to. This is where first hand experience is invaluable. Let's hear from someone who has actually gone through the process to see what's involved. It may be that sure, it's on the books as being illegal, but, nobody enforces it. Or, it might be a big deal with confiscation and fines. If this is going to be used out on a farm east of nowhere, and the local family knows the situation, I'd do the shipping thing and not worry about it.....but, that's just me.