San Jose objects to be raised between April and May 2024.

[Mackaydon]

Colombia will try to raise objects from a 1708 shipwreck believed to have a cargo worth billions

The Colombian government says it will try to raise objects from the 1708 shipwreck of the galleon San Jose, which is believed to contain a cargo worth billions of dollars.

apnews.com

Don in SoCal

 

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[enrada]

When I first read about the San Jose. and writers suggested that the wreck would have a lot of emeralds on board, I was extremely skeptical. Out of curiosity I took a look at maps google and realized that the Muzo mine is only 50 miles north of Bogota and it is closer to the Pacific coast than to Cartagena which the San Jose had not reached yet. Don't bother buying the book about the San Jose 1708 written by Phillips. About 70 pages before it even mentions the wreck. Borrow from the library.

 

[Mackaydon]

20+ years ago, when I had my boat (R/V Explorer--Roatan), I was handed a tape purportedly made by Throckmorton's team and showing the remains of the San Jose in about 800 feet of water. Since it was beyond my capacity (both technically and financially) to do anything, I put the tape in storage where it continue to rest today--somewhere in my garage. If only I had the tech. and means at that time--before all the notoriety. Just another 'woulda, coulda, shoulda' in my life.
Don in SoCal

 

[enrada]

Has anyone ever seen a manifest for the San Jose? I assume that because it never reached Havana that Eugene Lyons wouldn't have found a manifest either. Were cargo manifests ever found from Porto Bello for any Spanish ships?
Just curious

 

[Mackaydon]

Coastal contraband occurred throughout the empire, but it was especially prevalent in northern South America from Portobelo, (Source: https://www.encyclopedia.com/humani...-and-maps/contraband-colonial-spanish-america)
That said, an exact cargo manifest on any northbound galleon from Porto Bello would be inexact; allowing for greater quantities and unlisted items in their holds.
Don in SoCal

 

[Crow]

Coastal contraband occurred throughout the empire, but it was especially prevalent in northern South America from Portobelo, (Source: https://www.encyclopedia.com/humani...-and-maps/contraband-colonial-spanish-america)
That said, an exact cargo manifest on any northbound galleon from Porto Bello would be inexact; allowing for greater quantities and unlisted items in their holds.
Don in SoCal

Nothing in simple as some ships had their names disguised in dispatches when they was carrying big treasure shipment.

An example Of this was ship that was the very last gold shipment of Spanish before the collapse of the vice royalties in the new world. There are no references of this shipment in the Spanish archives. Yet the records remain in archives in Mexico city. A ship known by various names to disguise it identity to foil pirates disappeared from history.

I have its manuscript of cargo Official cargo and it could even perhaps with unknown contraband smuggled on her, give the San Jose a run for its money?

Crow

 

[: Michael-Robert.]

Nothing in simple as some ships had their names disguised in dispatches when they was carrying big treasure shipment.

An example Of this was ship that was the very last gold shipment of Spanish before the collapse of the vice royalties in the new world. There are no references of this shipment in the Spanish archives. Yet the records remain in archives in Mexico city. A ship known by various names to disguise it identity to foil pirates disappeared from history.

I have its manuscript of cargo Official cargo and it could even perhaps with unknown contraband smuggled on her, give the San Jose a run for its money?

Crow

Crow - Im intrigued. How about sharing that manuscript of cargo? Any idea's of when it sailed and who with? Have you checked Havana archives? Details plz....

 

[villagenut]

Would be cool if they had a live video stream of the recoveries...I would be tuned in

 

[ARC]

There is / are no manifest(s)... they disappeared long ago.

OR.... they exist in a heaping pile of strapped miscellaneous papers somewhere.
OR... in some guys bookshelf or safe.

 

[Crow]

Crow - Im intrigued. How about sharing that manuscript of cargo? Any idea's of when it sailed and who with? Have you checked Havana archives? Details plz....

The Havana achieves I would love to visit for another shipwreck in Bahamas to Confirm a few things.

I am tied up elsewhere at moment. I say I am retired but I am more busy than ever. In regardless to records of the last great gold ship they are the Mexican archives.

There are several reasons I cannot disclose Much more detail because of the following reasons.

one: I have given much information out freely over the years in good faith in sharing the passion of searching for treasure. Some information good some not so good. Yet others have made others money either using that information either in books or documentaries with virtual zero thanks.

Two. Being old school I honor my obligations bound by a non disclosure agreement with other associates. For it is not entirely my discovery either. A combination of the efforts of few others.

Three: Although retired and no real need of money. I still have an vested interest in the cargo. As part of group trying negotiate a deal for salvage rights behind closed door with revolving door of governments and bureaucrats with their snouts in trough preaching cultural heritage virtue. None wanting make deal fearing scandal to their careers. Since the government in question broke every promise it made to me and my associates. It will be until hell freezes over they will get their grubby hands on it.

Four If I publish name identity of the vessel I create the risk of others finding out the same details opening up the possibility of rival claimants to The cargo. I and my associates have no legal claim over the Cargo. Others might succeed in negotiating a deal screwing me and my associates out of a life time of research? This amigos you can see happening now with San Jose playing out as an example.

But I will reveal the part of cargo manifest. 1.5 million pieces of 8 and 500 boxes with one thousand gold escudos in each box. Do the math how much is 1815 Gold escudo coin Melt Value: $1,549.49 (1/8/2024)

Gold Escudos coin value

So you can now understand my hesitancy in revealing too much. I can empathize with OP in his some what allusive remarks not wanting to give too much away on a public forum.

Yet wanting to know where to go from there when there is no easy answer.

Crow

 

[: Michael-Robert.]

The Havana achieves I would love to visit for another shipwreck in Bahamas to Confirm a few things.

I am tied up elsewhere at moment. I say I am retired but I am more busy than ever. In regardless to records of the last great gold ship they are the Mexican archives.

There are several reasons I cannot disclose Much more detail because of the following reasons.

one: I have given much information out freely over the years in good faith in sharing the passion of searching for treasure. Some information good some not so good. Yet others have made others money either using that information either in books or documentaries with virtual zero thanks.

Two. Being old school I honor my obligations bound by a non disclosure agreement with other associates. For it is not entirely my discovery either. A combination of the efforts of few others.

Three: Although retired and no real need of money. I still have an vested interest in the cargo. As part of group trying negotiate a deal for salvage rights behind closed door with revolving door of governments and bureaucrats with their snouts in trough preaching cultural heritage virtue. None wanting make deal fearing scandal to their careers. Since the government in question broke every promise it made to me and my associates. It will be until hell freezes over they will get their grubby hands on it.

Four If I publish name identity of the vessel I create the risk of others finding out the same details opening up the possibility of rival claimants to The cargo. I and my associates have no legal claim over the Cargo. Others might succeed in negotiating a deal screwing me and my associates out of a life time of research? This amigos you can see happening now with San Jose playing out as an example.

But I will reveal the part of cargo manifest. 1.5 million pieces of 8 and 500 boxes with one thousand gold escudos in each box. Do the math how much is 1815 Gold escudo coin Melt Value: $1,549.49 (1/8/2024)

Gold Escudos coin value

So you can now understand my hesitancy in revealing too much. I can empathize with OP in his some what allusive remarks not wanting to give too much away on a public forum.

Yet wanting to know where to go from there when there is no easy answer.

Crow

Cheers, I greatly understand..... NDAs and Contracts help, but not garrantee... Secrecy is key. GOOD LUCK.... Keep your sails in fair winds, or as thay say, chug chug chug sound of the diesel.

 

[enrada]

I visited the Havana archives a few years ago and came to a few conclusions;
1. The chance of a regular treasure hunter gaining access(same as Archives of the Indies in Seville) is just about 0%.
2. If you are a PHD or Professor at an accredited University you might be able to gain access after a few months application.
3. If you don't read or can't translate old Castilian Spanish or Latin, just forget about it.
4. You should consider it about a 5 year project to accomplish anything.
5. If your name was not Eugene Lyon just forget it!!
Does anyone know who has EL's research and microfilm?

I had a Latin document translated and it took about 6 months after I took the proper names, latitude and other distinguishing details out. After that I separated it into two parts and had each part translated on two different countries. After that I burnt the translation in event that it got stolen.

 

[Smithbrown]

âHoly grail of shipwrecksâ: recovery of 18th-century Spanish ship could begin in April

The San José, sunk in 1708, has been at the center of a dispute over who has rights to the wreck, including $17bn in booty

www.theguardian.com

 

[Physics guy]

This article is from Jan 2022 but has some pretty interesting detail on the San Jose:

What Lies Beneath

In 1708, the Spanish galleon San José sank in a deadly battle against English warships, taking with it billions in treasure. Centuries passed until a secretive archaeologist found the wreck, but now nations are again warring over who may claim the gold and glory.

www.vanityfair.com

Also, this Nov 2023 article on Anthony Clake:

A hedge fund exec is funding hunts for treasures in shipwrecks at the bottom of the ocean

Anthony Clake has been funding high-tech treasure hunts under the ocean for decades, a Bloomberg investigation has revealed.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[BennyV]

This article is from Jan 2022 but has some pretty interesting detail on the San Jose:

What Lies Beneath

In 1708, the Spanish galleon San José sank in a deadly battle against English warships, taking with it billions in treasure. Centuries passed until a secretive archaeologist found the wreck, but now nations are again warring over who may claim the gold and glory.

www.vanityfair.com

Also, this Nov 2023 article on Anthony Clake:

A hedge fund exec is funding hunts for treasures in shipwrecks at the bottom of the ocean

Anthony Clake has been funding high-tech treasure hunts under the ocean for decades, a Bloomberg investigation has revealed.

www.businessinsider.com

Great read!

 

[Physics guy]

I’m betting that Anthony Clake is the mysterious “originator” in the Vanity Fair article:

“In hopes that his successor would restart the partnership, he at last introduced the nation to the discoverers of the San José (and made no mention of Sea Search Armada). The effort had been bankrolled by a previously unknown English company called Maritime Archaeology Consultants, or MAC. Though he didn’t identify the principal financier, whom he referred to simply as “the originator,” Santos name-checked the search expedition’s main participants, describing them as a “dream team.””

This is going to be more fun than the Black Swan. James Goold has already made an appearance; I’m not sure if he’s going to be representing Spain or Colombia in the endless court battles.

 

[Oceanscience]

https://www.lawinfo.com/resources/admiralty-maritime/are-finders-keepers-under-the-sea-what-you-ne.html

 

[: Michael-Robert.]

When the San José sank in a battle against the British in 1708, the ship was carrying what is believed to be the most expensive cargo ever shipped from the New World, including more than 7 million pesos, 116 steel chests full of emeralds, and 30 million gold coins, according to court documents. Very interesting read- Source: https://pca-cpa.org/en/cases/300/

Looking for more in documents...

 

[: Michael-Robert.]

20 Billion....

A $10 billion battle is brewing over ownership rights to a 300-year-old sunken warship believed to hold the biggest maritime treasure ever

A US salvage company is suing Colombia for half the ship's estimated $20 billion in treasure, saying it discovered the wreck first near Cartagena.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[BennyV]

Wild stuff.

You’d think all these parties would sit down and hash it all out. Everyone gets XX%. Better than nothing. I’d take a percentage of $10 billion instead of $0, but hey I’m a reasonable guy.