Silver FAKE Roman Denarius Dated AD66!! WOW!!!!

[jimmy uk]

Found this little beauty today on pasture land it was only 2 inchs deep its been ID as a Nero Fourrée Denarius DATED AD66!

which im very shocked about as its my first silver Roman coin and its had to be fake and even more rarer

http://www.ukdfd.co.uk/ukdfddata/showrecords.php?product=31566&limit=recent

 

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[jimmy uk]

thanks for that.. i guess im just gona have to do some more digging about this coin as.. i have half of people saying its a real fake and the other half saying its not so im 50-50 who to beleave

 

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[CRUSADER]

thanks for that.. i guess im just gona have to do some more digging about this coin as.. i have half of people saying its a real fake and the other half saying its not so im 50-50 who to beleave

If it were mine, we (Dad & I) would label the coin slip 'Contemporary Forgery', but as I was trying to explain we use this term as the depth of our knowledge in these is limited to a few examples & we have found no-one with a convincing argument that they are something a little different, like the semi-official or local imitation options.

I'm 99% happy it's Ancient, so for the time being & until you 'luck' into an expert, just keep it as so. I do use the fake word but its a confusing term when talking about Ancient Coins, try & avoid it unless talking to 'Joe Public'.

You could spent a lot of time tracking down the right answer when splitting the hairs I'm talking about The important thing is its very, very unlikely it's Modern.

Something to bear in mind when reading an 'Experts' opinion, look carefully at the language; words like unlikely & maybe etc can point towards a lack of depth of Knowledge (I do it all the time, that's why I don't like it when people call me an Expert), I'm a generalist or Specialist in Antiquities & that's pushing it.
When an 'Expert' ID's a coin, they should & mostly do have conviction in their words & they will draw upon their experience of handled examples, giving very detailed replies on all sorts of parameters {For example the UKDFD does not list the Die Axis, what is yours?*}. They will normally ask questions on weight & size to compare to their research & comment on the variations of similar examples, including provenance.

*Die Axis is important when looking at the possibilities of local imitation or Official Mint. You measure this by the hands of the clock, ie 12'oc, 6'oc etc... Take the coin with the Obv (Head side) facing exactly upright & hold it lightly between your thumb & finger. Swivel it around so you can see the reverse but keep the coin upright & don't change angle. When you see the reverse, which way up is it (use the clock to measure).

 

[CRUSADER]

I've been mulling over whether to vote banner, I have now decided, not based on value (as it has very little) or rarity but based on it's the best conditioned (which did worry me a bit, see others on UKDFD) contemporary Forgery I have seen. You now have the honour of the current best example on the UKDFD:

http://www.ukdfd.co.uk/ukdfddata/sh...rpage=40&sort=2&stype=&limit=&cat=all&ppuser=

Not checked the PAS so there should be a load more on there, but might not be as pretty

So a lucky survivor which is always one of my Fav finds, something that beat all the odds.

 

[Silver Searcher]

I've been mulling over whether to vote banner, I have now decided, not based on value (as it has very little) or rarity but based on it's the best conditioned (which did worry me a bit, see others on UKDFD) contemporary Forgery I have seen. You now have the honour of the current best example on the UKDFD:

http://www.ukdfd.co.uk/ukdfddata/sh...rpage=40&sort=2&stype=&limit=&cat=all&ppuser=

Not checked the PAS so there should be a load more on there, but might not be as pretty

So a lucky survivor which is always one of my Fav finds, something that beat all the odds.

I think it might have value if it turns out to be a Ancient forgery :P it's a first example with to different dies, and a Fouree, which are collectable themselves

Jimmy would you mind if I sent pictures of the coin to a friend :P, he is at a London coin fair at the moment, but he should reply to me by next week

Good luck with it anyway

SS

 

[jimmy uk]

yes please take the photos. i need as much help as i can to find out about this coin

i would like to thank both for the effort u have put in to writeing all this for me as its very handy to know stuff from the pro's

whats all this vote banner

 

[CRUSADER]

I've been mulling over whether to vote banner, I have now decided, not based on value (as it has very little) or rarity but based on it's the best conditioned (which did worry me a bit, see others on UKDFD) contemporary Forgery I have seen. You now have the honour of the current best example on the UKDFD:

http://www.ukdfd.co.uk/ukdfddata/sh...rpage=40&sort=2&stype=&limit=&cat=all&ppuser=

Not checked the PAS so there should be a load more on there, but might not be as pretty

So a lucky survivor which is always one of my Fav finds, something that beat all the odds.

I think it might have value if it turns out to be a Ancient forgery :P it's a first example with to different dies, and a Fouree, which are collectable themselves

Jimmy would you mind if I sent pictures of the coin to a friend :P, he is at a London coin fair at the moment, but he should reply to me by next week

Good luck with it anyway

SS

Your right it will have some value but it's a very narrow market (as you know it only takes 1 honest collector who appreciates them to pay whatever they think its worth), as always it finding access to these small bunch. I've not looked very hard, but if it went on ebay it would not make very much (9 out of 10 times). Its nothing compared to some of those US Copper imitations
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vespasian-Fou...880?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a65c51c88
Above is one of only 2 completed listings of fourree's, both sold in the US (interestingly), it was less than a £10, the other one a very nice example at only £44. Of course they can be listed as all sorts as they are not commonly referred to as this term (fourree), so that would mean careful & constant trawling of ebay. This would narrow the hit rate even further by the high paying collectors, so when they get them cheap (most of the time on ebay), then this is what they might expect to pay. I think it would be about £30-50 on a good day & only half that on most others.
However, you may find the odd guy through other channels that may pay £100 Interested to see how this progresses.

 

[CRUSADER]

whats all this vote banner

Your Bronze Age Axe should have made it, but the rules around being a newbie discounted your find (at that point in time).

Somewhere on here is the guidance on the banner, but basically its the finds along the top of the page. People vote & the MODs decide if they want it up there.

Found it:
http://forum.treasurenet.com/banner

 

[RiverRat3]

Very neat find......... Congrats!

 

[Silver Searcher]

Cru I have said this before, I don't think that the real High end coin buyers, buy from eBay :P firstly the fees are to high, I mentioned the London Coin Fair...this is were the big players are in the UK. It is usually the dealers that pick the coins up from ebay, you wouldn't sell any of your Big coins there, and neither would I

I'm not saying there isn't some good deals to be had there, but the rare coins, like the Matilda and Stephen penny recently found by a detectorist from up here, go to the auction room or the back room at the London fair

SS

 

[underarock]

damn those fakes! I'll take it since its fake.
yeh banner.

 

[CRUSADER]

Cru I have said this before, I don't think that the real High end coin buyers, buy from eBay :P firstly the fees are to high, I mentioned the London Coin Fair...this is were the big players are in the UK. It is usually the dealers that pick the coins up from ebay, you wouldn't sell any of your Big coins there, and neither would I

I'm not saying there isn't some good deals to be had there, but the rare coins, like the Matilda and Stephen penny recently found by a detectorist from up here, go to the auction room or the back room at the London fair

SS

Exactly right, not the place for high end stuff (although I don't think this will be), therefore maybe they don't try hard, making better deals for those that do find them. Fees are only high if the sale price is high. Must be many reasons for the buying on ebay debate. But you are definitely better placed to network the right people as you sell, so hopefully you can follow the leads to a knowledgeable collector or dealer (my contacts are mostly academics & book writer types) I may get a shock

 

[Silver Searcher]

Cru I have said this before, I don't think that the real High end coin buyers, buy from eBay :P firstly the fees are to high, I mentioned the London Coin Fair...this is were the big players are in the UK. It is usually the dealers that pick the coins up from ebay, you wouldn't sell any of your Big coins there, and neither would I

I'm not saying there isn't some good deals to be had there, but the rare coins, like the Matilda and Stephen penny recently found by a detectorist from up here, go to the auction room or the back room at the London fair

SS

Exactly right, not the place for high end stuff (although I don't think this will be), therefore maybe they don't try hard, making better deals for those that do find them. Fees are only high if the sale price is high. Must be many reasons for the buying on ebay debate. But you are definitely better placed to network the right people as you sell, so hopefully you can follow the leads to a knowledgeable collector or dealer (my contacts are mostly academics & book writer types) I may get a shock

The shock may be sooner than you think I was told recently that a hoard of Henry1 penny's is being returned to the finder, these will suerly flood the market soon, and the prices will tumble....hope they are not the same type as yours

SS

 

[CRUSADER]

Cru I have said this before, I don't think that the real High end coin buyers, buy from eBay :P firstly the fees are to high, I mentioned the London Coin Fair...this is were the big players are in the UK. It is usually the dealers that pick the coins up from ebay, you wouldn't sell any of your Big coins there, and neither would I

I'm not saying there isn't some good deals to be had there, but the rare coins, like the Matilda and Stephen penny recently found by a detectorist from up here, go to the auction room or the back room at the London fair

SS

Exactly right, not the place for high end stuff (although I don't think this will be), therefore maybe they don't try hard, making better deals for those that do find them. Fees are only high if the sale price is high. Must be many reasons for the buying on ebay debate. But you are definitely better placed to network the right people as you sell, so hopefully you can follow the leads to a knowledgeable collector or dealer (my contacts are mostly academics & book writer types) I may get a shock

The shock may be sooner than you think I was told recently that a hoard of Henry1 penny's is being returned to the finder, these will suerly flood the market soon, and the prices will tumble....hope they are not the same type as yours

SS

I remember that hoard (I think). My type XII is a very unpopular type as proved in other Henry I Hoards, it was thought that because it was smaller & lighter that most got recycled. Then add the likelihood of moneyer & mint combination & you have a small chance of another one. However, if there were a couple, it doesn't change the history of mine being the first & they will compare die types to mine. Plus price is interesting but irrelevant to my collection, so it has no impact (except if we get another & then we can offer less to the farmer to keep it )

 

[HISPAN]

Cru I have said this before, I don't think that the real High end coin buyers, buy from eBay :P firstly the fees are to high, I mentioned the London Coin Fair...this is were the big players are in the UK. It is usually the dealers that pick the coins up from ebay, you wouldn't sell any of your Big coins there, and neither would I

I'm not saying there isn't some good deals to be had there, but the rare coins, like the Matilda and Stephen penny recently found by a detectorist from up here, go to the auction room or the back room at the London fair

SS

Exactly right, not the place for high end stuff (although I don't think this will be), therefore maybe they don't try hard, making better deals for those that do find them. Fees are only high if the sale price is high. Must be many reasons for the buying on ebay debate. But you are definitely better placed to network the right people as you sell, so hopefully you can follow the leads to a knowledgeable collector or dealer (my contacts are mostly academics & book writer types) I may get a shock

The shock may be sooner than you think I was told recently that a hoard of Henry1 penny's is being returned to the finder, these will suerly flood the market soon, and the prices will tumble....hope they are not the same type as yours

SS

My God!... I sell all my Henry1 hammered now !

H

 

[CRUSADER]

Cru I have said this before, I don't think that the real High end coin buyers, buy from eBay :P firstly the fees are to high, I mentioned the London Coin Fair...this is were the big players are in the UK. It is usually the dealers that pick the coins up from ebay, you wouldn't sell any of your Big coins there, and neither would I

I'm not saying there isn't some good deals to be had there, but the rare coins, like the Matilda and Stephen penny recently found by a detectorist from up here, go to the auction room or the back room at the London fair

SS

Exactly right, not the place for high end stuff (although I don't think this will be), therefore maybe they don't try hard, making better deals for those that do find them. Fees are only high if the sale price is high. Must be many reasons for the buying on ebay debate. But you are definitely better placed to network the right people as you sell, so hopefully you can follow the leads to a knowledgeable collector or dealer (my contacts are mostly academics & book writer types) I may get a shock

The shock may be sooner than you think I was told recently that a hoard of Henry1 penny's is being returned to the finder, these will suerly flood the market soon, and the prices will tumble....hope they are not the same type as yours

SS

My God!... I sell all my Henry1 hammered now !

H

How many is 'All'

 

[CRUSADER]

*Die Axis is important when looking at the possibilities of local imitation or Official Mint. You measure this by the hands of the clock, ie 12'oc, 6'oc etc... Take the coin with the Obv (Head side) facing exactly upright & hold it lightly between your thumb & finger. Swivel it around so you can see the reverse but keep the coin upright & don't change angle. When you see the reverse, which way up is it (use the clock to measure).

You never replied to the above, it a major clue?

 

[jimmy uk]

im not 100% sure im doing this right so for give me for moment. i held the coin up right with the face facing right and i turned it over straight over and the reverse is facing the right way up so you can read it

 

[CRUSADER]

im not 100% sure im doing this right so for give me for moment. i held the coin up right with the face facing right and i turned it over straight over and the reverse is facing the right way up so you can read it

No turning or flipping, just swiveling between your fingers (keeping it in the up right position). I think from what you said (but try it again, as any little angle change can matter), that its a 6'oc.

The Roman's were perfectionists & at least 90% of their coins were 12'oc or 6'oc. However, local imitations & Forgery's often had varying angles. {Assuming it is a 6oc}The weight of probability leans to a semi offical coin, at least someone who was well practiced in Roman Minting techniques.

 

[HISPAN]

Cru I have said this before, I don't think that the real High end coin buyers, buy from eBay :P firstly the fees are to high, I mentioned the London Coin Fair...this is were the big players are in the UK. It is usually the dealers that pick the coins up from ebay, you wouldn't sell any of your Big coins there, and neither would I

I'm not saying there isn't some good deals to be had there, but the rare coins, like the Matilda and Stephen penny recently found by a detectorist from up here, go to the auction room or the back room at the London fair

SS

Exactly right, not the place for high end stuff (although I don't think this will be), therefore maybe they don't try hard, making better deals for those that do find them. Fees are only high if the sale price is high. Must be many reasons for the buying on ebay debate. But you are definitely better placed to network the right people as you sell, so hopefully you can follow the leads to a knowledgeable collector or dealer (my contacts are mostly academics & book writer types) I may get a shock

The shock may be sooner than you think I was told recently that a hoard of Henry1 penny's is being returned to the finder, these will suerly flood the market soon, and the prices will tumble....hope they are not the same type as yours

SS

My God!... I sell all my Henry1 hammered now !

H

How many is 'All'

I think none ...... but I found a good scare.
H

 

[TURNMASTER]

Whatever the outcome,
At best you have an ancient counterfeit, at worst you have an antique counterfeit.

Flippin Cool! either way I would love to dig any counterfeit. Banner

Jeff