Sketch of Marks inside Cave/ Mine

[Clueman]

I am interested to hear interpretations from those that are competent.
The sketch was made from symbols found inside a previously back filled cave / mine
found in NW Ar.

Outside there was a Z UCA LQ

35 Yards Inside, just after a small (itsy bitsy) arrastra , the symbols sketched below were found 4
feet up from the ground, on the right side . The Q's meaning is up for conversation.

I accept the Z meant pozo since we found a sealed shaft not far from the arrastra inside.
Shaffers book Of Men and Gold identified the UCA as ORO, or gold.

We are arguing about the Q 4, with the V 5 below the line. It is NOT Q 14, or Q 24, rather Q 4,
we accept the V 5 is 5 Vara below...........so 5 Vara below is the Q 4.

We are also arguing about the upside down T with the circle above it.

I hope the sketch comes out..Cave drippage, and reflective glaze prevented good pics.......competent thoughts are appreciated.

 

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[treasurechest]

Perhaps that's not an uspide down T with a circle above it. I swear that's a symbol for something, but I can't remember what. If I find it, I'll post it for you.

 

[treasurechest]

and what's with the pan you drew on the pic? Is that the big dipper?

 

[Shortstack]

Clueman,
Here is what I see. The Spanish alphabet does not have a "W". An "M" would have a noticeably shorter middle "v" shape. If the middle is as long as the two legs, it is 2 "V"s (again). In the tags, where I mention "inches", that is to be SPANISH inches, not American. A Spanish inch is equal to .914 of an American inch. One vara equals 32.8 Spanish inches which is equal to 30 American inches. The Spanish used the "V" and "X" as the Roman numeral values of "5" and "10", respective.

 

[Clueman]

Thanks for the input.

Shortstack...

I agree, there is no W. The lower right (w arrow thing) is my poorly sketched lightning bolt.
Where do you get Q = 20? One individual believes the Q means 101. lbs.
Also so many others say the V5 is 5 vara why do you say it's not? If you are correct then
would the Q 4
_____ mean 4 20's are 55 units below?
V 5

Treasurechest

I also have seen the( upsidedown T with the circle attached above) somewhere else.
I have searched many sources and can't find where I saw the symbol. Some believe it means look above.
I don't. However I've been wrong regularly. I was wanting someone to say it was an element, or mineral.

The frying pan thing is in my opinion symbolic of the tool (cup on a stick)used for removing placer gold from the small arrastra.
The arrastra was a little room with a 4 -5 foot bowl shaped into the solid stone floor with a little place in the bottom center
of the bowl about the size of a tin can. A drawing depicting almost exactly the same thing is shown on page 52 and 49
of Kenworthys Death Traps to Treasure book.

However, the frying pan thing is on the wall just below the pozo so, it may simply be saying pozo above?
The truth is we don't know for sure about the frying pan thing, the upside down T with the circle, or the Q.

Eventually, we will find out, and return. Maybe we will only find out after experimentation.
It would be nice to have an efficient plan for completion. On this project our success has been limited to finding the
exterior carvings, some monuments, locating the mine / caves concealed opening,.......removing the fill ,
finding the arrastra and finding the symbols. The lightning bolt and obvious visible danger from rocks
above has intimidated us from proceeding without more knowledge.

Thanks again for the information.

 

[treasurechest]

the W on the "west" side of the map could be owl ears on it's side. I also think the heart with all the different things coming off of it could signify that there's more than one way to find what you're looking for. maybe there's multiple trails in the area that lead up to, and join into a single trail. I doubt the thing you're looking for is in the mine itself. That would be too easy. Mines are much easier to locate than a cache burial. Think about it. Mines have tailings, and are a dead give away. If you dig a hole to bury loot, you cover the loot with the dirt you dug out, add a few rocks on top of it, and viola, a few hundred years later, it doesn't look like anything special to you.

 

[Shortstack]

Clueman:
First thing. A lightning bolt is a sign for DANGER.

I got the value of "20" for "Q" from the Spanish Alphabet Code. One more thing, That cup shape just under the "cross" looking figure might represent a concave shape that would change the ratio of the value of the cross figure from 10 to 1 into 100 to 1 .


EDIT: I changed my perspective on the meaning of the concave shape after rechecking my reference material. A concave surface would change the measurement RATIO from 10 to; 100 to 1 defined in feet. Therefore, I'm thinking the DRAWING / CARVING of a concave figure would mean the same thing.

 

[Shortstack]

Clueman:
I've been looking closer at that "cross" figure. If you drew that figure EXACTLY as carved, then here's the shape's breakdown. There's more than one "V" and the other lines would be "1"s. That is, if the cave drawing / carving has the same line breaks as your drawing.

You asked why the "V" doesn't mean "vara"? It is because it is used as the Roman numeral for "5" ONLY as a "value" code. Two "V"s can be used together to form a pair of owl's ears, but they still have the value of "5" each. There are things that tell us to multiply, add, etc., but the "V" basic meaning is the "5". To use it for anything else would confuse things. The Spanish indicate "vara" and "feet" measurements by WHERE the symbols are placed. On a vertical surface equals "feet"; on a flat surface, horizontal to the ground, equals "varas". There are 2 things to change those meanings, but I won't go into that now.

 

[weekender]

Clueman,
Here is a link to your symbol you have drawn, maybe?


http://www.symbols.com/encyclopedia/42/4216.html


-Weekender

 

[Clueman]

THANK YOU!

The probable meaning of the upside down T with the circle above
is in fact, copper. The symbols.com site was wonderful.

The site had already shown the triangle penetrating a triangle (silver)
The UCA as shown matched Shaffers book for oro (gold)
and now you solved the symbol for copper.....

It appears as though we've been given a breakdown of what was
processed thru the placer mine, and arrastra.

THANKS again

Clueman

 

[desertmoons]

When you have a shape like your copper symbol,the circle part of it can often be different. You may find a dot or an X or perhaps a cross in the circle.

If the surveys out your way indicate copper minerals..great! I found two, side by side, not in a mine, but likely a few miles from a mine that are a bit more ornate but similar in nature.

The first had a dot which I suspect means gold..the second an x in the circle, similar to your x in the circle. The difference of course my circle x is on a stem. Here is a drawing of them. They struck me as compound symbols at the time.

These can only be seen certain times of the year is what I found out

I really like the idea of it meaning copper and so all the ores are identified. FYI my symbols were nowhere near water or traditional process place. I don't mean to confuse..and I have not drawn any firm conclusions as to my signs. I was just thinking that it might be that the upside down T has a dual meaning other than part of a copper symbol in your sign. If so, it may be of help to know my signs were found on a rock in flat land a mile or so from the mines.

Be aware the part below the upside down "T" s may not be totally correct in my drawing.

 

[weekender]

Clueman,

You are very welcome!!
Give me a thumbs up when you get to the end of the trail.

-Weekender

 

[Old Dog]

Paul,
When a "W" is present ... (knowing there isn't a "W" used) it represents an upside down "M".
use the value for "M" and go in reverse.

 

[poorfarm]

When you have a shape like your copper symbol,the circle part of it can often be different. You may find a dot or an X or perhaps a cross in the circle.

If the surveys out your way indicate copper minerals..great! I found two, side by side, not in a mine, but likely a few miles from a mine that are a bit more ornate but similar in nature.

The first had a dot which I suspect means gold..the second an x in the circle, similar to your x in the circle. The difference of course my circle x is on a stem. Here is a drawing of them. They struck me as compound symbols at the time.

These can only be seen certain times of the year is what I found out

I really like the idea of it meaning copper and so all the ores are identified. FYI my symbols were nowhere near water or traditional process place. I don't mean to confuse..and I have not drawn any firm conclusions as to my signs. I was just thinking that it might be that the upside down T has a dual meaning other than part of a copper symbol in your sign. If so, it may be of help to know my signs were found on a rock in flat land a mile or so from the mines.

Be aware the part below the upside down "T" s may not be totally correct in my drawing.

a circle with a x also means you are still on the right trail with the cross below could it mean a church trail

 

[Twisted Fork]

I am interested to hear interpretations from those that are competent.
The sketch was made from symbols found inside a previously back filled cave / mine
found in NW Ar.

Outside there was a Z UCA LQ

35 Yards Inside, just after a small (itsy bitsy) arrastra , the symbols sketched below were found 4
feet up from the ground, on the right side . The Q's meaning is up for conversation.

I accept the Z meant pozo since we found a sealed shaft not far from the arrastra inside.
Shaffers book Of Men and Gold identified the UCA as ORO, or gold.

We are arguing about the Q 4, with the V 5 below the line. It is NOT Q 14, or Q 24, rather Q 4,
we accept the V 5 is 5 Vara below...........so 5 Vara below is the Q 4.

We are also arguing about the upside down T with the circle above it.

I hope the sketch comes out..Cave drippage, and reflective glaze prevented good pics.......competent thoughts are appreciated.

Amongst other things, the Q refers to the quads formula involved in finding the cache. 4 is the infield triangle and 5 is the spread one adds when they line up corners 2 and 3 of the triangle. Determine the Apex being man made. Corner three will be the farthest away from it, not corner two. Stand at corner 3 and aim a compass at corner 2. add another five degrees to the dial and seek out the mine in the distance of a stones throw or less. I would start by searching up and to the right of the cave in hopes of finding a small shelf with two similar doctored makers of stone or wood. Between these one should find at least some of the ore from the dig. Dig careful as such as there will be a small heart stone buried with it. A single piece of ore may be shaped like the mountain your dealing with; a scaled down rock map in the palm of your hand.

You may be in a decoy designed to do just what it is doing to you; confusion.....but at the same time, all of the answers are right there but not there; positioning..........cut through a meadow? Perhaps the cave itself is the real map. Expand