Some shipwreck bottles, help on date and nationality

ScubaFinder · May 25, 2009

Hi gang, this is my first post in bottles and glass, though we find lots of them. Recently, we found what I think is an 1800's Dutch wreck here in the Dominican Republic. It has hundreds of interesting bottles at the site, so we brought a few up for cleaning and I thought I would share the pics with you guys. Of course, my hope is that you fine folks can offer me some hints as to the general age of these. These are what we have always called Ginger Beer bottles, stoneware and generally glazed a tan color. Sorry about all of the coral, it comes off with time, and often we leave it on to add to the authenticity of a shipwreck artifact.

If nothing else, enjoy some bottles from the bottom of the sea. And thanks in advance for any assistance.

Jason

Scale is in Centimeters facing the bottles.

This is a closeup of the stamp. Blankenheyms Zeeroudegenever is the text.

GrayCloud · May 25, 2009

How ya gonna clean them fellas up? :icon_scratch:

ScubaFinder · May 25, 2009

Honestly, it's mostly just a waiting game. We put them in distilled water with a little bi-carbonated sodium...and it falls off eventually. Most of the growth is animal or plant life, the rest is Calcium Carbonate which slowly dissolves away into a chalk. Not sure how far it grows into stoneware though....time will tell.

Jason

Harry Pristis · May 25, 2009

ScubaFinder said:
Honestly, it's mostly just a waiting game. We put them in distilled water with a little bi-carbonated sodium...and it falls off eventually. Most of the growth is animal or plant life, the rest is Calcium Carbonate which slowly dissolves away into a chalk. Not sure how far it grows into stoneware though....time will tell.

Jason

You're probably being overly-cautious with these stoneware bottles, Jason. They are vitrified. Just pop them in an acid bath (vinegar will do - 5 or 6% acetic acid), and watch the crud fall away.

The handled stoneware bottles contained gin (some early German examples contained mineral water). The last bottle is certainly a gin ("genever"); Blankenheym was a distiller (later merged into Blankenheym & Nolet). Most of these distilleries were located in Schiedam (Netherlands).

These stoneware bottles have relatively modest collector interest. It's the glass bottles that command collector attention.

ScubaFinder · May 25, 2009

Collector attention is what we will want soon...I'll have to post some pics of our glass bottles.

We have 4000 artifacts wating for division......

I'm waiting for confirmation on my 1850-1870 date range, maybe newer but I want to know to narrow my search for which vessel ths was. Thanks!

Jason

Harry Pristis · May 26, 2009

ScubaFinder said:
Collector attention is what we will want soon...I'll have to post some pics of our glass bottles. We have 4000 artifacts wating for division......

I'm waiting for confirmation on my 1850-1870 date range, maybe newer but I want to know to narrow my search for which vessel ths was. Thanks!

Jason

There appears to be quite a disparity in age (much greater than 1850-70) between the beer/ale bottle on the left and the utility bottle on the right. Perhaps you have some site contamination.

After say 1830, you should expect to find most black utility bottles to have been blown in a three-piece mold. This is the case until late into the 1800s.

Lip finish and base of these bottles is also important to dating. I would guess the champagne bottle and the utility bottle are pontil-scarred, but that the ale bottle is not.

These two (probably American) are 1850-70.

Here are two champagnes that may be a bit later than yours, though it's hard to put an exact date on these bottles.

This pair of continental bottles also falls into the 1850-60s time-frame.

These glass bottles will respond well to a vinegar bath. Show us some more of your bottles!

ScubaFinder · May 26, 2009

Thanks Harry, I should have clarified more...the glass botles didn't come from the same shipwreck site as the stoneware. In fact, the glass bottles all came from different sites...sorry about that. That would explain the age difference though.

I'll see what I can do as far as more pictures. W are preparing to do a division with the government here in the DR on a wide range of shipwreck artifacts dating from 1600 through the late 1800's. We believe we are on top of three wrecks from a 1529 Spanish treasure fleet...how cool would those bottle be? time will tell, we dove today but were looking in a new area where we thought the hull may have come to rest...we were wrong. Tomorrow i think we have a better shot if the weather cooperates.

Jason

Harry Pristis · May 26, 2009

ScubaFinder said:
Thanks Harry, I should have clarified more...the glass botles didn't come from the same shipwreck site as the stoneware. In fact, the glass bottles all came from different sites...sorry about that. That would explain the age difference though. I'll see what I can do as far as more pictures. W are preparing to do a division with the government here in the DR on a wide range of shipwreck artifacts dating from 1600 through the late 1800's. We believe we are on top of three wrecks from a 1529 Spanish treasure fleet...how cool would those bottle be? time will tell, we dove today but were looking in a new area where we thought the hull may have come to rest...we were wrong. Tomorrow i think we have a better shot if the weather cooperates.

Jason

Gosh, that's great! You'll wind up with all the bottles you want, I'm sure. Let me know when you have some to sell.

I imagine the big interest will be in the 1529 artifacts, but there won't be much in the way of glass on that wreck -- too early. No doubt there'll be stoneware, though, including the ubiquitous Spanish "olive jars."

We'd all like to see more images of your bottle finds!

ScubaFinder · May 28, 2009

Olive Jars? We have a few of those.

I'm guessing about 1/3 of those will end up in our hands. Can't seem to find the picture of all of our glass artifacts. Next time I'm in Santo domingo I'll snap one for you.

Jason

blindpig · May 28, 2009

Scuba finder , I asked my wife , she is a hollander .........

Blanken / heyeyms Zeer / oud / genever
white / ? name ? very /old / jenever

The "G" in "JENEVER" could just be print type from 100 yr's ago , or even provencale [south?] from where my wife is from ?
Jenever still comes in the same stone-ware , they just dont use the lead seal anymore , Jenever is a clear grain -alcohol , good for clean'n your paint brush , but some ,.. seem to enjoy drinking it :tongue3:

anyway there you go , Blindpig

ScubaFinder · Jun 1, 2009

Thanks for that BlindPig! Google Translator didn't like the words all run together.

allen · Jun 16, 2009

those are some really neat bottles !!

Jurriaan Kloek · Nov 13, 2017

Hi, I found some very similar bottle as your second picture just off the coast of the old city in Curaçao. Do you have more information already on their origins? Looking forward to hearing from you!