St Louis and the year 1821?!?!?!?!????

tat2guy · Jan 4, 2012

Is this place and date in the Beale Pamphlet for reasons other then what is described

I found a new name this evening and have been :read2:

....But it occured to me that using the year 1821 and the city of St Louis may have another meaning. So follow me for a second...as we know 1821 is a "KEY" date with any territories becoming states. Like Missouri joining the Union (Sorry Reb, I ment CSA) in 1821.

Interesting fellow I found is Anthony Glass. He spent a bit of time in the Oklahomie territory in 1808-09. Interesting things here :icon_thumleft:

http://www.tamu.edu/faculty/ccbn/dewitt/glassanthony.htm

The way things are described in his journal, I beleive they traveled into southern Colorado and/or northern New Mexico.

Bigscoop I have a feeling you may have run across this already. And I'd love to hear the thoughts of all of you.

HH Jay

Rebel - KGC · Jan 4, 2012

"Google" Americans/"Texicans" - 1821... look for article byTravis McGee. "TEXICANS" PROBABLY were MORE American than MEXICAN; War with Mexico ensured the REPUBLIC OF TEXAS... AND! At that time... it was ALL USA; even Gen. Robert E. Lee (CSA) was Capt. Robert E. Lee (USA) back THEN! :wink:

Coffee?

bigscoop · Jan 4, 2012

Could Glass have played a role in the Beale story? :dontknow:

Rebel - KGC · Jan 4, 2012

And THIS... is ALSO interesting! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Hopkins_Sibley about HHS and the "SouthWest"; his father Dr. John Sibley explored the SOUTHWEST during the "Mists of TIME"; BEFORE it was part of USA. :wink:

Rebel - KGC · Jan 4, 2012

And THEN, there is the James Long Expedition to "TEXAS"

from La. in the "CLOUDY MISTS OF TIME"! :wink:

Long DID have "dealings" with Jean... BUT! Jean was a SPY for SPAIN, then... :dontknow:

bigscoop · Jan 4, 2012

Rebel - KGC said:
And THEN, there is the James Long Expedition to "TEXAS" from La. in the "CLOUDY MISTS OF TIME"! Long DID have "dealings" with Jean... BUT! Jean was a SPY for SPAIN, then...

A spy for Spain? :laughing9:

tat2guy · Jan 4, 2012

bigscoop said:
Could Glass have played a role in the Beale story?

That is one of the points I was getting at. And I think it was the Long expidition that ran into the bad winter if I remember right.

Rebel - KGC · Jan 4, 2012

Just "google" JEAN LAFITTE, SPY FOR SPAIN?

THEN, Dr. JAMES LONG EXPEDITION. :wink:

bigscoop · Jan 4, 2012

Rebel - KGC said:
Just "google" JEAN LAFITTE, SPY FOR SPAIN? THEN, Dr. JAMES LONG EXPEDITION.

There were a lot of circumstances leading up to that event. Long was something of a rouge, as it were. I believe you'll find that he was acting on his own without US authority or approval. :thumbsup:

Rebel - KGC · Jan 5, 2012

LaFitte or Long? Did BEALE/BEALL? :wink:

Coffee?

bigscoop · Jan 5, 2012

To be sure, they were both a bit rouge. :laughing7:

There are a lot of potential wealthy key figures who were involved in that territory, either directly or indirectly, once you start looking deeper. Several big bankers were even playing their hands and investing in the Texas region. "A lot of sources for big money ventures." The most notable of these was George Graham, not only did he visit the Galveston region of Texas but he, along with a few others, may have even influenced Long's failed campaigns. :thumbsup:

I think it's even pretty safe to say that this was the actual case.

Rebel - KGC · Jan 5, 2012

WHAT years are you talking about? :icon_scratch:

bigscoop · Jan 5, 2012

1817 - 1821

Rebel - KGC · Jan 5, 2012

OK, will do R & I on it... :coffee2:

tat2guy · Jan 5, 2012

1817-1821.....sounds like the same thing with wealthy people today. Do what they want, when they want, and with who they want. And could still buy their way outta things :laughing7:

.

HH Jay

Rebel - KGC · Jan 7, 2012

Yeah... St. Loo, MO 1817-1821 was a "frontier town" by the river, where wealthy men had dreams or were KINGS of places; like the King of New Mexico. MAYBE, the "BE" was composed of "KINGS-WANNABES" in the SW... :dontknow:

tat2guy · Jan 8, 2012

Couldnt have said it better myself :icon_thumright:

Rebel - KGC · Jan 20, 2012

As an example... "google" KING OF NEW MEXICO. :icon_thumleft:

Coffee?

bigscoop · Jan 22, 2012

Rebel - KGC said:
Yeah... St. Loo, MO 1817-1821 was a "frontier town" by the river, where wealthy men had dreams or were KINGS of places; like the King of New Mexico. MAYBE, the "BE" was composed of "KINGS-WANNABES" in the SW...

tat2guy said:
1817-1821.....sounds like the same thing with wealthy people today. Do what they want, when they want, and with who they want. And could still buy their way outta things .

HH Jay

It's all pretty fascinating to explore. There was also a lot of silent, behind the scenes big money interest in land speculation schemes as well. When you think of Burr, the French, all the self appointed rouges and wannabe rulers, the schemers, the politics,....there was a lot going on in the region during the period in question, most of it requiring a great deal of advanced planning and financial support. Military support was also something that was frequently desired and/or required and a lot of militia took on the role as what might better be called, mercenaries for hire and/or potential profit. Though the Monroe Doctrine is usually associated with the troubles of Florida, it probably wasn't the only territory on Monroe's mind when he drafted that document. :laughing7:

Rebel - KGC · Jan 23, 2012

In the era of the "BE" (1817-1821), wonder what the "banking system" of the USA was like... I can ONLY suppose that ENGLISH-style "banking" in the NE and mid-Atlantic states, and SPANISH-style "banking" in SE. The NW & SW were TRADING-style with Native Americans, French, etc. IF... TJB & Associates/Companions (Companions sounds like a Chapter of Royal Arch FreeMasons...) WERE wealthy King "wanna-bes"... reckon they carried WADS of CASH? :laughing9:

HA! USELESS! :wink: