The lost gold of the Empress of Britain

[Crow]

Gidday all Gather around I have treasure yarn ya. grab ya favorite brew. take seat and enjoy the story.

It is story that largely went under the radar. Even today there has been no clear indication that there was gold on the vessel. Those in know are keeping tight lipped as if it State secrets. Yet stories persist of gold being on this vessel. here is color tinted of vessel below. she was fine looking ship.

She successful even through the great depression carrying passenger to Canada during the summer months acting as cruise ship in winter months in other parts of the world.

On 28 October 1940, RMS Empress of Britain was torpedoed in the Atlantic by U-32 and sank about 70 miles off County Donegal.

The attack by U-32 was a follow-up attack after the ship had been bombed by German planes on 26 October – after which, most of the passengers and crew had been safely evacuated from the stricken ship.

The Empress of Britain was the largest ship sunk by a U-boat during the Second World War, and it is rumoured that the liner was carrying a large amount of gold.

Here is two newspaper accounts of incident below.

here is another newspaper story at the time.

to be continued.......

Crow

 

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[Crow]

In her time Empress of Britain was the largest, fastest and most luxurious ship between the United Kingdom and Canada, and the largest ship in the Canadian Pacific fleet. She was torpedoed on 28 October 1940 by U-32 and sank. At 42,348 GRT she was the largest liner lost in WW2 and the largest ship sunk by a U-boat.

RMS Empress of Britain was a Steam turbine ocean liner built between 1928 and 1931 by john brown shipyard in Scotland. You cam see the size of the vessel below.

Here is a picture of its launching below.

It owned by the Canadian Pacific Railway Company and operated by them. She was the second of three Canadian Pacific ships named Empress of Britain

The Empress of Britain was considered one of the most luxurious cruise liners of its era before it was requisitioned to be used by Great Britain in 1939 during WWII.

Here is some picture inside her. this is the bridge below.

Second engine room below.

The ballroom below.

The lobby. She was luxurious for 1930s standards

it even had a tennis court indoor swimming pool and squash courts.

During the start of WW2 she was used as a troop ship and conducted several voyages across the Atlantic as a troopship.

To be continued

Crow

 

[Crow]

Here more detail on the evens that took place.
On the 28 October 1940, the RMS Empress of Britain was sunk off Ireland killing 45 of the 623 people on board. It was the largest ocean liner lost during World War II, and was the largest ship sunk by a U-boat.

On 25 November 1939, the RMS Empress of Britain was requisitioned as a troop transport. First, she did four transatlantic trips bringing troops from Canada to England. Then she was sent to Wellington, New Zealand, returning to Scotland in June 1940 as part of the “million dollar convoy” of seven luxury liners — Empre of Britain, Empress of Canada, Empress of Japan, Queen Mary, Aquitania, Mauretania and Andes.

In August 1940, she transported troops to Suez (via Cape Town), returning with 224 military personnel and civilians, plus a crew of 419.

At around 9:20am on 26 October 1940, travelling about 70 miles northwest of Ireland along the west coast, Empress of Britain was spotted by a German Focke-Wulf Fw 200C Condor long-range bomber, commanded by Oberleutnant Bernhard Jope. Jope’s bomber strafed Empress of Britain. here is official pictures from the aircraft attack the ship.

She was attaqcked three times and hit her twice with 250 kg bombs.

Only after Jope returned to base in northern France was it discovered which ship he had attacked. A telex was sent to German Supreme Headquarters. Realising the significance, a reconnaissance plane went to verify; and the German news agency reported that Empress of Britain had been sunk:

"The Empress of Britain was successfully attacked by German bombers on Saturday morning within the waters of Northern Ireland. The ship was badly hit and began to sink at once. The crew took to their boats."

Despite the ferocity of Jope's attack and the fires, there were few casualties. Bombs started a fire that began to overwhelm the ship. At 9:50am, Captain Sapworth gave the order

to abandon. The fire was concentrated in the midsection, causing passengers to head for the bow and stern and hampering launching of the lifeboats. Most of the 416 crew, 2 gunners, and 205 passengers were picked up by the destroyers HMS Echo and ORP Burza, and the anti-submarine trawler HMS Cape Arcona. A skeleton crew remained aboard.

The fire left the ship unable to move under her own power, but she was not sinking and the hull appeared intact despite a slight list. At 9:30am on 27 October, a party from HMS Broke went on board and attached tow ropes. The oceangoing tugs HMS Marauder and HMS Thames had arrived and took the hulk under tow.

Escorted by Broke and HMS Sardonyx, and with cover from Short Sunderland flying boats during daylight, the salvage convoy made for land at 4 kn (7.4 km/h; 4.6 mph).

The German submarine U-32, commanded by Hans Jenisch, had been told and headed in that direction. He had to dive due to the flying boats, but that night, using hydrophones (passive sonar), located the ships and closed on them. The destroyers were zigzagging and U-32 positioned herself between them and Empress of Britain, from where she fired two torpedoes. The first detonated prematurely, but the second hit, causing a massive explosion. It appears that the crews of the destroyers thought the explosion was caused by the fires aboard the liner reaching her fuel tanks.

Jenisch manoeuvred U-32 and fired a third torpedo which impacted just aft of the earlier one.Empress of Britain began to fill with water and list heavily. The tugs slipped the tow lines and at 2.05am on 28 October, Empress of Britain sank northwest of Bloody Foreland, County Donegal (off Ireland at 55-16N 09-50W).

So there the matter should of rested but stories persisted she was carrying 11 tons of gold for war payment.

to be continued.....

Crow

 

[Crow]

It was suspected that she had been carrying gold. The United Kingdom was at the time attempting to ship gold to North America in order to improve its credit. South Africa was a gold producer, and Empress of Britain had recently berthed in Cape Town.

Most of the consignments of gold were transported from Cape Town to Sydney, Australia, and from there to America; there were not enough suitable ships and the gold was frequently held up in Sydney.

It is possible that, as a result of this delay, Empress of Britain was transporting gold from South Africa to England, where it could then be moved to the United States of America.

On 8 January 1949, the Daily Mail reported that a salvage attempt was to be made in the summer of that year. There were no follow-ups, and the story contained errors. In 1985, a potential salvager received a letter from the Department of Transport Shipping Policy Unit saying gold on board had been recovered? Had it or by who?

In 1995, salvagers found Empress of Britain upside-down in 500 feet (150 m) of water. Using saturation diving, they found that the fire had destroyed most of the decks, leaving a largely empty shell rising from the sea floor.

The bullion room was still intact. Inside was a skeleton but no gold. It is suspected the gold was unloaded when Empress of Britain was on fire and its passengers evacuated. The body inside the bullion room may have been someone involved in salvage. .

Who? where and when?

To continued.

Crow

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[Crow]

the rumor persisted A WWII shipwreck off the coast of Co Donegal could yield up to a half billion Euro according to explorers who are working to salvage the ship's gold cargo.

In 2019 sub sea made a salvage attempt cost them 60000 pound per day for the ship North sea giant.

Atlantic Subsea Ventures [ASV] is exploring the site in hopes of recovering the bullion of gold it was believed to be carrying. Operations Manager William Carrier said he's hoping to see results in about 4-6 weeks from the shipwreck that lays about 500 meters underwater and about 18 miles off of the Irish coast.

He believes the value is in the region of about half a billion Euros," Carrier said of the sunken ship's cargo, which would have been used to finance the war efforts of the era.

they had 8 of specialists and 200 hundred crew on the vessel and shore all up for the project.

Ian Richard 52 from Scotland was crane operator of North Sea giant who spent a month over the dive site . Confirm they had cut through the largely intact hull. at the site.

William Carrier noted that the area is "very dangerous" to work in as the WWII ship is in varying degrees of collapse. Extremely high-tech "remote intervention" is being used to navigate the wreck from aboard the North Sea Giant.

Here is bottom profile of shipwreck.

ASV wants to land the as yet unclaimed gold in Ireland, but under current law, the company would have to leave the gold with the Receiver of Wrecks for a year and a day and then pay a 7.5 percent levy on their findings.

Already the vulture started circling.

The wreck's distance from Ireland means any cargo recovered from the sunken ship does not have to be landed in Ireland, Since ASV has invested so much into the operation already, Carrier wants to see that levy reduced to about 4 percent and to be able to move straight on with their findings.

William Carrier claims “There’s many, many more wrecks out there that we could bring the cargo back into this country and create quite a substantial income for the taxpayer,” Carrier told RTE. “It should be in our favor that we look towards changing those regulations.”

Pat Gallagher has urged the Minister for Transport Shane Ross to push through amendments to the current law so the valuable cargo can be landed in Co Donegal. TD Gallagher said: “I will be prevailing on the transport minister to introduce the legislation necessary because the value of the contents will attract a significant benefit for the taxpayer.”

“I believe the state must make every effort to help those expending considerable money on the exploration to land the cargo here.”

So what happened 5 years on nothing but silence? Was there gold or was there no gold?

The mystery remains?

Crow

 

[Crow]

Chris Samuelson director of Atlantic Sub sea venture they in 2019 was hampered by bad weathers and covid 19 and hope to return next summer of 2020.
But everything got put on hold.

the group from the department of defense, transport culture and revenue commissioners was establish to monitor the operation. they was stood down in 2020 as Covid 19 had by in large scuttled the operation.

So eleven tons of gold has it been recovered or it is still inside the decaying hull of the ship?

The mystery remains. We know the location of where the gold was stored. in this section below. the internal structure within the hull has collapsed in on itself the outer hull is in very good shape.

Here is the approximate area where the gold was allegedly stored.

Here is full plan below.

She is big ship as you can see with the deck by deck arrangement below.

With so much collapsed interior removal of debris within the hull makes excavation hard. Not is easy everything has it challenges.

And what if the evidence that gold was on the ship in the first place? Every thing seems so sketchy to me. But there is documentation some treasure hunters will not reveal in fear of exposing the source. Of many other gold shipments. it is with I believe the minster of transport. And the bank of England and exchequer in the relationship to bullion movements during WW2 still in many respects still classified.

Crow

 

[releventchair]

2 destroyers and a trawler took on passengers . There would be a window for offloading more.
Any until the ship was hit again if an unnamed craft offloaded anything.

Lifeboats are small targets. But limited in capacity/weight/cargo load.

Per German news ,Saturday morning the crew "took to their boats."
Per Wiki the command to abandon was at 9:50 A.M..
Followed by mention of the difficulty launching lifeboats due to passengers concentrated fore and aft to avoid fire/burning midship.
One may hazard davits were squeaking though.
Her sister ship sank too.
Her lifeboats mentioned in this article as well as improved safety due to the Titanics impact.

RMS Empress of Ireland - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[releventchair]

 

[Magoopeter]

Subsea 7 was formed in 2004 when many of the world’s best offshore diving companies were finally merged, DSND, Halliburton Subsea, Subsea, Rockwater, Stolt Nielsen Seaway, Comex, Oceanic, and Stolt, were among some of the companies.
Before 2004 Rockwater was one offshore company that had a willingness to let its vessel explore the possibilities of using their Dive Support Vessels, the Rockwater One and Two were both involved in projects that I have a personal interest in.
In 2005 I started working for Subsea 7 as a saturation diver, I was lucky enough to work alongside a bunch of divers who were legends within the closed circle of divers in the North Sea.
The North Sea tigers were the old school of divers who worked from the start of offshore diving in the UK, with in that group one crew of divers became known as Kelly, s heroes, they were the guys who worked on the Rockwater one under Larry Kelly.
Enter Eric Gile a shipwreck researcher, and piped piper, a man how probably went on a hunch rather than fact, but he had a good story and background and could present his work as fact, some of his work was but some was not based on the full facts, in other words once he seen gold or a hint of it he did not follow up to check the gold was definitely on the ship.
Eric convinced Rockwater to look for Gold on the Empress of Britain, Larry Kelly and his heroes who had already had a successful second salvage of the HMS Edinburgh gold shipment, went to empress of Britian, it was not the usual offshore regulations, the Sat divers took a good amount of beer into sat, most of these guys were heavy drinkers and hell raisers.
I got it first hand from them when working with them, we would spend up to 28 days in sat and basically over time you got to know these guys well and heard every story about every job they ever done, Edinburgh Gold to the Kurst Russian sub they had done a lot.
On the Empress, Ill keep names out of this, but will working with the diver that cut into the hull, I learned that he was drunk, and you also have to understand these guys were not interested in wrecks they were in diving for the money, and it was Rock star money they were on then, they also were getting wages not a share, so they did not care if they found gold or not, so when the diver cut trough the hull and went into the Bullion room he found himself in a large void of the hull and reported the whole of the interior of the ship had burnt out, it was like being in the centre of a cathedral. He then explained to me that when he landed on hull being drunk, he did not go to the area he was told to him reported he was on the job and started cutting into the hull, he had in fact cut into the Engine room, so the ship was not a total burnt out total mess.
The Rockwater then went to look at the SS Pegu and again recovered not bullion. I believe there are still companies using Eric information, some have around 80 million of gold still left in the bullion room, but where is the bullion room?
If you read Hans Jenisch logbook, you see they had plenty of time to recover the gold, and Thomas Pickford did have an official report of the gold being recovered, he was commissioned by the British government to investigate all gold shipments during WWII.

 

[Crow]

It appears the later attempt in 2019 cost at least 3 million dollars with very little results to show for it.

Here article. of gold being shipped on Empress of Britain from Banks in Hong Kong worth about estimated 126 million today, 4200 boxes of gold and silver.

But lets not be fooled that was in 1937. As the banks was afraid of japans intention in China would turn to Hong Kong and later that became true. It does prove however that the liners was used to move huge amounts of gold and currency around the world at the time. ever before WW2.

Yet this does no by no means confirm if there was gold on the ship during its last voyage.

Crow

 

[Crow]

Several newspapers in 1949 reported gold was on the Empress of Britain.

Bid to recover hoard of gold London, Sunday.-First attempts to recover gold worth several million sterling, which has been at the bottom of the Atlantic off the north-west coast of Ireland since 1940 will be made next summer. Bullion in ingots the size of building bricks is stacked in the strongroom of the 42,000ton liner Empress of Britain. flagship of the Canadian Pacific Co. fleet, sunk by German bombers. Divers, after studying chart& and plans of the ship, have made a preliminary survey.

Here is an article that gives more detail.
Will Attempt To Salvage Sunken Gold
Herald Special Service.

COLOMBO, Wednesday. — An attempt will soon be made to recover £1 million worth of
gold from the bullion room of the Empress of Britain which has lain In deep water of Ireland since 1940.

The Melbourne diver. Mr J. Johnstone, who recovered the Niagara's gold off the coast of northern New Zealand In 1941, Is traveling to England In the Orion In response to a request from a London salvage firm. He has been asked to go there to Investigate the possibility of bringing the gold up.

The liner, which was the flagship of CPR, was bombed and fired on by Nazi aircraft. While being towed to port she sank in flames. She is lying In 80 fathoms.

1 million pounds worth in 1940? 8.40 ponds per once in 1940

Roughly 119047 ounces of gold in today's prices roughly 260712930.00. Roughly about 260 million US dollars.

So if it can be confirmed though records and transcripts of the department of transport the shipwreck will well be worth salvaging.

Crow

 

[Magoopeter]

Nigel Pickford reported the existence of a letter, the letter was requesting a salvage contract from the ministry of transport shipping department (war risk insurance) for the Empress of Brittin. The Letter was returned with a reply stating that the gold had already been recovered from the Empress of Britain.

Although the ship was sent on fire by a German Focke - Wulf bomber at around 9:20 am on 26th October 1940 the ship was sunk at 02:00 am by U-boat 32 on the 29th the vessel was a float for an awfully long time.

The logbook of the U32 mentions lights been seen on the ship on the 28th and that the people with the lights left the ship at 10:35, there was a salvage tugs tied up to the ship, that would indicate a salvage team onboard with torches.

Also, a male skeleton was found in an empty bullion room, by the salvage attempt in 1995, some speculate that this would indicate the gold was taken of and a member of the salvage team had died, It would be very unlikely any of the salvage team died as that would have been common knowledge and nothing was reported in the papers. I can confirm the skeleton and the empty bullion room as I have said I worked with the divers who dived on the ship.

Atlantic Subsea Ventures is also Britannia’s Gold? Britannia’s Gold, I believe they have raised 12 million £ in total, no word of gold and I think they have been to the Empress three times. I also believe they are using Eric Giles information, one of Britannia’s Gold first press releases was a story along the lines of a person researching their family tree, that accidentally comes across a list of all the Gold sunk in Both Wars on British ships, that was Eric Giles story to investors, I have someof Erics work,

https://www.irishcentral.com/nws/empress-of-britain-gold-donegal

Note Will Carrier, mentioned in both articles.

https://www.slow-journalism.com/fro...-the-hunt-for-125-billion-in-shipwrecked-gold



https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politic...sunken-gold-from-empress-of-britain-jzgbhdwpf