The Purpose of; Miniature Bird Points.

[MObushwhacker]

While redoing some old frames I came across several miniature bird points. They are beautiful works of art and highly prizes by other collector because of their small size. But because of their small size I question the purpose of these small points, and if they were even made by Native Americans. . I have found hundreds of bird points in my lifetime but I never any this small. A friend of mine says they were used for small game and for drilling small holes. Even that doesn’t make sense. I disagree for the simple reason is that the size of the point is just too small. The shaft of the arrow shaft would have to be the size of a match stick, same situation if use as a drill just too flimsies. It would be like trying to shoot spaghetti in a bow. My question is; have other collectors actually found these very small points and what is the purpose and benefits of them being so small?

 

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[1320]

One archaeologist (W.S. Webb) from the 1920s/30s theorized their use as simply "for the afterlife". He commonly found them in groups of 6 or 8, primarily in association with burials.

 

[all_atv]

I have also thought that they were too small to go on an arrow. If they did go on an arrow, maybe they were just as a tip and the wood was carved back around them so the shaft would match the tip size better.
My dads thinks they were from kids making them or made as toys. You know how kids want to copy there parents in everything they do.

 

[PrimitiveOne]

Most of the bird points that I end up with while making arrowheads result from mistakes or breaks on larger heads I am working on. I figure I'm already making a point why waste the material and I end up with a bird point. Though small it could still inflict death upon any animal if put into the vitals. The point only has to stick out of a shaft enough to make a point. Knapping was a constant activity with Native Americans so there was bound to be allot of mistakes because of the primitive tools they were using. Just a thought.

 

[Digger]

Here are a few I have I thought were really small.

 

[Wichita]

thay are your ture arrowheads

 

[Wichita]

MVC-132S

 

[iowa trout]

The point on the right was found at my work station one day while the boss was on vacation.

 

[SouthernGirl]

Wow you those sure deserve a frame.

 

[Th3rty7]

I've read that alot of these tiny points are associated with burials but there is evidence that they were also hafted and used as arrowpoints. They've been found still attached to arrow shafts in western caves and elsewhere. These little sharp tipped points were small and light enough to not effect the aerodynamics of the arrow flight and penetrate the target well imo.

Here's some PNW arrowpoints from Oregon and Washington and some of the small points I've found.

 

[CanadianTrout]

Wow! thes etiny points are more impressive (in a way) that the large one! LOL

They look awesome, thanks for sharing.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

I just got these points in the mail last week and they are the tiniest I have ever seen. These are from Arizona.

 

[creek astronaut]

I've read that alot of these tiny points are associated with burials but there is evidence that they were also hafted and used as arrowpoints. They've been found still attached to arrow shafts in western caves and elsewhere. These little sharp tipped points were small and light enough to not effect the aerodynamics of the arrow flight and penetrate the target well imo.

Here's some PNW arrowpoints from Oregon and Washington and some of the small points I've found.

So if they are true arrowpoints then that would throw out the theory that the bow & arrow has only been around for 1500 years.Birdies date back to the late archaic and have been found in Glacial Kame culture burials.Has the bow been around for 4000 years??Ceremonial and functional??interesting thread

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

So if they are true arrowpoints then that would throw out the theory that the bow & arrow has only been around for 1500 years.Birdies date back to the late archaic and have been found in Glacial Kame culture burials.Has the bow been around for 4000 years??Ceremonial and functional??interesting thread
[/quote]

Not sure where you got the idea that the bow has only been around for 1500 years?

The first actual bow fragments are the Stellmoor bows from northern Germany. They were dated to about 8,000 BCE but were destroyed in Hamburg during the Second World War. They were destroyed before Carbon 14 dating was invented and their age was attributed by archaeological association. The second oldest bow fragments are the elm Holmegaard bows from Denmark which were dated to 6,000 BCE. High performance wooden bows are currently made following the Holmegaard design.

Around 3,300 BCE Similaun man was shot through the lung near the present-day border between Austria and Italy and was mummified. Among his preserved possessions were bone and flint tipped arrows and an unfinished yew longbow 1.82 m (72 in) tall.

 

[Th3rty7]

So if they are true arrowpoints then that would throw out the theory that the bow & arrow has only been around for 1500 years.Birdies date back to the late archaic and have been found in Glacial Kame culture burials.Has the bow been around for 4000 years??Ceremonial and functional??interesting thread

Not sure where you got the idea that the bow has only been around for 1500 years?

The first actual bow fragments are the Stellmoor bows from northern Germany. They were dated to about 8,000 BCE but were destroyed in Hamburg during the Second World War. They were destroyed before Carbon 14 dating was invented and their age was attributed by archaeological association. The second oldest bow fragments are the elm Holmegaard bows from Denmark which were dated to 6,000 BCE. High performance wooden bows are currently made following the Holmegaard design.

Around 3,300 BCE Similaun man was shot through the lung near the present-day border between Austria and Italy and was mummified. Among his preserved possessions were bone and flint tipped arrows and an unfinished yew longbow 1.82 m (72 in) tall.

[/quote]


I'm pretty sure he's talking about the proposed date in the U.S. 1500-1200 B.P. The bow and arrow is thought to have been used in Africa around 60,000 + years ago from arrows found in a cave. In Europe the bow and arrow is believed to be dated to 9000 - 10,000 B.P. Evidence in Alaska points to the 4000 B.P.

Did some prehistoric mastermind invent the bow and arrow in America 1500 years ago or was it brought inland from the northwest , south, or elsewhere. I don't think there's enough evidence to say. Lots of questions and not many answers. Great discussion and topic imo.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bow_(weapon)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_archery


Here's a good read on the subject
http://www.jimmausartifacts.com/true-arrowheads-piedmont/

 

[1320]

I've read that alot of these tiny points are associated with burials but there is evidence that they were also hafted and used as arrowpoints. They've been found still attached to arrow shafts in western caves and elsewhere. These little sharp tipped points were small and light enough to not effect the aerodynamics of the arrow flight and penetrate the target well imo.

The mini points found in graves in this area where in fact hafted so I suppose it is plausible for them to have been found in shelters in the hafted state, perhaps for future burial. I wouldn't say for sure that because they were found hafted in a shelter would mean that they were being used as arrowpoints to harvest game. However, inasmuch as I have an open mind, I still think that some would have been used for hunting but not likely for small birds. Small bird bones just dont show up in excavations in this area.

I've often wondered if the small points might have been used to harvest fish. The smaller package would likely zip thru the water faster wouldn't it? And if used to harvest small fish, the flesh damage would have been limited. And of course, there is certainly an aerodynamic advantage to a lighter, smaller point if used on land based game....speed.

How about for use as practice and/or training....young or old archer? The "toy" bow and arrow still gets my attention!

 

[creek astronaut]

Thx for covering for me 37,yea i was talking north america.This is the american artifact forum??lol.I agree bro,this is a great thread.

 

[natchitoches]

the indians use them in war with other indians too

 

[natchitoches]

Click here: A Brief History of Native American Development The Bow

http://www.deepcreektimes.com/kids/november2003.html

 

[SOHIO]

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