To All Treasure Hunters - Our Legal Rights are at Risk! WE NEED YOUR HELP!

[BloodyBelle]

Re: To All Treausre Hunters - Our Legal Rights are at Risk! WE NEED YOUR HELP!

After all, coins minted before 1956, are archaeologically classified thingies and so you are committing a crime by digging one up. Next year it will be coins prior to 1957 and so on each year.



hummm... I wonder what would happen if you called them up and said, "Hello, I was metal detecting and found some coins. When I got home and cleaned them I noticed one of the coins, a penny, was minted in 1953 and qualifies as an archaeological find. Would you please send someone over right away to pick it up."

Historic Preservation
500 S. Bronough Street
Tallahassee, FL 32399-0250
(850) 245-6333

Aha! It was your idea. And a damn good one.

 

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[korfx04]

Buddy, you got my support. I Live in ga and every year we come down there every year. We have a friend that does this and he takes me with him. It's so much fun.

 

[Monty]

The deadline has passed. Anything to report since October of 2008? Monty

 

[Naturelady]

I think this is a great discussion, but it needs it own topic! It would be much better servered and could alert other users to this need. Most people will read the first part and not read all the way down to your very important post!

I certainly ook forward to hearing more and will certainly support any cause to keep the Archies from taking away our rights.

Good Luck,

RGecy

The Mexifornia law against dredging is all just another financial farce. There is a casino being built and the owners didn't want the waters of the river muddied up by prospectors -- and they had the money to buy some politicians on the issue. There is also that thing about asbestos being dangerous to people so land is being roped off limits. I'm in California right now and I refuse to become a citizen of this fascist little nightmare. As far as I'm concerned, this is not part of the US anymore. Where else in the US do you have to go through a border checkpoint to enter a state? They claim its for flies - but I'm not seeing them stop flies at the border, just people.

As far as our rights to public property -- it's a freaking joke. It's going to get worse too if the Gov takeover isn't stopped. Most people do not realize that the law against us owning gold was never rescinded - it was paused. Any day now they can just re-activate that law with a stroke of the pen and you won't be allowed to own gold no matter where you got it from. All those coins you dig up won't be legal no matter what the date on them.

Do you own the mineral rights to your property? If you think you do, you better check again. People have been duped on those, too - and a lot of people are finding mining companies taking over their own property. In Louisiana they have even usurped the people's rights to OWN their own land's mineral rights.

They've been at this grab a LONG time, people. Unfortunately, they are winning.

As far as rights are concerned, the gov needs to be told that if they want something they need to get off their asses and go find it themselves. If you find something archaeologically significant, make them pay for the information about where to get it. If they refuse, it's a good way to start fighting the law and keeping what we find -- "I gave you the chance to get it and you refused, so it's mine now. If you'd wanted it, you should have paid for the information about where to get it." Not foolproof, but if enough people start sending bills for information on finds, they might get the hint that we're tired and fed up with being stolen from.

Mexifornia is somewhat trying to do the same stuff with the anti dredging laws they are trying to pass.

 

[frankie]

Dear Fellow Treasure Hunters,

Even if you do not have any interest in Shipwreck Salvage or the Shipwreck forum, WE NEED YOUR HELP!

I know this is The General Discussion forum, but Our legal rights for Shipwreck Salvage within State waters are at risk!

We need your help to show our opposition to the proposed changes to the State of Florida's Rule 1A-31. We are asking everyone, even if you do not live in Florida, to please take a few minutes of your time and send a comment to the State of Florida showing you are against the proposed changes in rule 1A-31 and that you support responsible commercial salvage of historic shipwrecks within Florida's State waters.

We only have until October 17th so please act soon and get everyone you know to send a comment!

Please go the to the following link : https://www.flrules.org/Gateway/View_notice.asp?id=6172515

Scroll down and check Send One Time Comment to the Agency and then click the Make Comment button. Post your own commnets or copy and paste comments from below.

There are over 20,000 members here at TNet. If we all come together we can stop this legislation. I am not asking for money, just 1 minute of your time. Please copy the comments below (or create your own) and follow the link above. It takes only a few clicks to show your support.

Thank You!

Robert Gecy


1. We are against any rules or regulations that would hinder Florida's responsible historical shipwreck salvors from their continued recovery of treasures and artifacts, such as the current proposed rules.
2. Under the Revised and Published Rule 1A-31.0092 (3) c, d, e it declares that permit areas shall have a "Buffer Zone" of 500 yards width from: navigation channels, exempted areas as defined in this chapter and excluded areas as defined in this chapter. These areas are defined in 1A-31.0042 and 1A-31.0045. This means no one will get a permit within 500 yards of a public recreation area (i.e. public beach) which translates to about one fourth of a mile from any Florida shoreline. The entire coastline of Florida is off limits for 1500 feet. This is not fair because history shows us that the majority of shipwrecks were blown toward or onto shore by hurricanes. The vast majority of shipwrecks on Florida's submerged lands are probably included within this area. It also means no one (without a grandfathered in Admiralty Claim) will get a permit within 500 yards of any inland waters, inlets, National Park systems, National Marine Sanctuaries such as the Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary), State Parks, Local public recreation areas, resource conservation areas and resource management areas, areas conveyed to public or private entities............. etc.

3. We believe the Division of Historical Resources should do more to work with the private sector salvors of Florida and encourage salvors to come into a fair, even handed and just permit process. Rule 1A-31 does not seek to do this.

4. We believe Florida's private sector salvors have done an excellent job of recovering and preserving our maritime heritage, to the direct benefit of the public and at little cost to the taxpayers and should be allowed to continue with as little interference as possible. Rule 1A-31 does not do this.

5. We do not want our tax dollars used by state archaeologists to dive on shipwrecks. The private sector salvors have done a great job, using their own money, with Florida getting the benefits by receiving 20% of the conserved artifacts and treasures recovered. We do not support any changes to rule 1A-31 that would make it harder for the salvors to continue.

6. We feel the new rule is unfair because it treats commercial salvors as second class citizens due to the fact that it does not give the same standards to commercial salvors as Rule 1A-32 gives to universities and nonprofit organizations. For example, the turnover or response time to get permits for 1A-32 is two weeks while commercial groups have waited months and in some cases, years. Also 1A-32 uses students as excavators while commercial enterprises must use experts.

7. We think Rule 1A-31 is unfair because university and nonprofit 1A‐32 permit holders get a search & survey, recovery & salvage permit ALL in their first permit while 1A-31 requires commercial salvors to obtain only search & survey permits with rules that vary from salvor to salvor. NO recovery & salvage permits (unless already grandfathered in by Federal Admiralty Claims) have been issued to commercial groups in Florida for over 15 years.

8. We are opposed to the rule because individuals who have current contracts for exploration have not all been individually notified of the workshops and hearings. It is also unfair that when they are notified, the locations of such meetings repeatedly take place at locations remote to the majority of the private and commercial entities that it will affect. Therefore, if a few dozen commercial groups from the Keys want to attend, they need to drive either 9 hours to St. Augustine area or 12 hours to the Tallahassee area (and back.) This means they have to miss THREE days work to attend. Two days driving and one day at the meetings. Future meetings should be held in a central location of the state such as the Orlando area to accommodate the majority of thestakeholders. Additionally, these meetings should not be held between June 1 and Sept 30th of any year, as that is the 120 day window for good weather conditions on the majority of the archaeological sites worked by commercial salvors in Florida.

9. We are opposed to the rule because it insists that an archaeologist be on board each salvage vessel during each and every survey and excavation. This is unnecessary because most electronic surveys are non‐intrusive and the majority of actual excavation areas are empty or turn out to be modern intrusions such as lawn chairs, discarded shrimp or lobster traps, beer cans and in some cases, U.S. military bombs in old target practice areas. Of course when major conglomerates of shipwreck material or structure are found, it would then be appropriate for the archaeologist to be on board to supervise the proper mapping and recording of these areas The reality is that the majority of the archaeologist's time is spent working with a cartographer, mapping and analyzing data collected during remote sensing surveys and identifying patterns from other known sites in an effort to decide which anomalies to excavate first, and writing reports after poring through the reams of data provide by the artifact recovery process. His presence on the site is not necessary until significant cultural deposits or structures are encountered.

10. The new rule should address some sort of Annual Adjudication of Title from the State to the permit holder rather than "Transfer of objects" in exchange for recovery services. This way, the state can receive donations of artifacts, because it is usually impossible to put an actual dollar value on each and every artifact found and this would create much confusion in tax law since the transfer of object has an indeterminable value.

11. This rule creates more work and overhead for DHR to manage their resources. Permits should be issued for a minimum of three years, much like the Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary, thereby alleviating costs to the DHR by reducing paperwork.

12. We feel this rule is unfair because commercial salvors are constantly in the research and development stages of using new technology for survey, excavation and conservation much of which is proprietary information. This rule eliminates many future possibilities and opportunities for research, development and testing of these new technologies.

13. We feel this rule is unfair because it requires the permit holder to turn over thousands of dollars worth of proprietary surveyresults without any guarantee that they will be allowed to salvage a site once it is found. There is no incentive for the permit holder to obtain a survey & exploration permit. An alternative would be to use wording similar to that in the Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary, which does not even require a "Survey & Exploration" permit at all and yet it seems to have been beneficial.

 

[ironron]

Hi have signed. although ..we have have our own draconian laws chipping away at our hobby this dosent affect me, ..living in the uk.
Any coin over three hundred years if its gold or silver. has to be declared. but can be returned to you if it is a single find.

I find that this is a joke ! treasure! before 1956 i know that your history is not as rich as it is in europe. ! but you think that they would give a starting date a bit earlier than this. The banks must be full of pre 56 coins.

These new laws are probably new to the states. but" beware they spreading from europe. I had an email a while ago from the ancient coin forum...stating that they are trying to ban the import of roman coins into the states from italy.
Good hunting.
Regards Ron.

 

[swiftfan]

It seems to me the state has laid claim to all the sites along the most likely sites in Florida. to pass this legislation would be wrong. It could cost the state more in tourist revenue alone than what is realized. This is not fair to the people. Although I do not reside in Florida, I belive I will write and voice my opinion to this. Thank you for letting me know.

 

[RigDean]

I'm down for a friendly visit to the appropriate officials...

detectorists unite! get the banners and picket signs!

if i wanted to live in communism, i would invite Hitler over...

 

[StevoCBR]

There is always that one person who has to bring politics into the discussion. Carson-Wreckma lets not forget about the debt our last president got us in

Nothing even close to the latest idiot in office!

 

[micprec]

sent mine and also sent copy to brother in law n florida, he will get the word out more. happy hunting everyone!!!!

 

[riverrunner814]

Its also the same for gold prospecting. The BLM is trying to take that away soon. Its a nightmare to stack a claim. Wonder whats next, probably stop detecting also. Everyone has to stick together and fight this madness. They say to us preserve it for future generations well what about us.

 

[cachecarter]

This all started when the crooked greedy bureaucrats extended all the areas to steal the Treasure of the Atocha from Mel. The fight is with the Feds, the State, the Church and the University. These lazy bum bureaucrats think more and more everyday they are entitled to the fruits of the labors of us hunters. It has to stop. It is "finders-Keepers" and should be returned to that caveat. Any lease should be for one year only and can be renewed, if worked, if abandoned it can be worked or filed on by a new renewie. Government and bureaucrats have "NO CLAIMS"...they can line up at the 'sale table' like all the other buyers!

Cache
See my web site: www.lostloot-treasure.com

 

[aleximas]

My comments were sent to the link given. I am fully against any laws that take away from our great hobby...

 

[eldorado]

this original post is over three years old.. you got to be kidding,

 

[StevoCBR]

I guess too late I don't see a make comment link?

 

[buckyboy]

So you folks in Florida are facing what no uncertain terms is government taking away our rights as an American Citizien.

Please join us and we will join you as well, for your consideration the following.

Please Read this in it's entirety.

This famous statement attributed to Pastor Martin Niemöller about the inactivity of German intellectuals following the Nazi rise to power. The text of the quotation is usually presented as follows:

“First they came for the communists,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a communist.

“Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a trade unionist.

“Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a Jew.

“Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.”

Here is my revision:
“First they came for the dredgers,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a dredger.

“Then they came for the hard rock miners,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a hard rock miner.

“Then they came for the treasure hunters,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a treasure hunter.

“Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.”

While many of you don't think what happens in California does not affect you, please reconsider your position. Please take the time to help save the California dredgers, it will have far reaching effects and possibly spare you the same pain and theft of freedom.
Please click on this link to keep this story up on Fox News. Thanky thanky thanky!!!!!

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...-potential-end-dredge-gold-mining-california/

 

[LuckyLarry]

If you want the government to control the people - vote democrat.

If you want the people to control the government - vote Republican.

It's not the government's right to tell us what we can do with our metal detectors, it's the people's right.

 

[bearbqd]

I don't see any place on there that says make one time comment.

 

[LECTRICHEART]

It says the time for making comments has expired!!! Whats with that S--t

 

[swinehartraz434]

Let's keep our figures crossed.

Dear Fellow Treasure Hunters,

Even if you do not have any interest in Shipwreck Salvage or the Shipwreck forum, WE NEED YOUR HELP!

I know this is The General Discussion forum, but Our legal rights for Shipwreck Salvage within State waters are at risk!

We need your help to show our opposition to the proposed changes to the State of Florida's Rule 1A-31. We are asking everyone, even if you do not live in Florida, to please take a few minutes of your time and send a comment to the State of Florida showing you are against the proposed changes in rule 1A-31 and that you support responsible commercial salvage of historic shipwrecks within Florida's State waters.

We only have until October 17th so please act soon and get everyone you know to send a comment!

Please go the to the following link : https://www.flrules.org/Gateway/View_notice.asp?id=6172515

Scroll down and check Send One Time Comment to the Agency and then click the Make Comment button. Post your own commnets or copy and paste comments from below.

There are over 20,000 members here at TNet. If we all come together we can stop this legislation. I am not asking for money, just 1 minute of your time. Please copy the comments below (or create your own) and follow the link above. It takes only a few clicks to show your support.

Thank You!

Robert Gecy


1. We are against any rules or regulations that would hinder Florida's responsible historical shipwreck salvors from their continued recovery of treasures and artifacts, such as the current proposed rules.
2. Under the Revised and Published Rule 1A-31.0092 (3) c, d, e it declares that permit areas shall have a "Buffer Zone" of 500 yards width from: navigation channels, exempted areas as defined in this chapter and excluded areas as defined in this chapter. These areas are defined in 1A-31.0042 and 1A-31.0045. This means no one will get a permit within 500 yards of a public recreation area (i.e. public beach) which translates to about one fourth of a mile from any Florida shoreline. The entire coastline of Florida is off limits for 1500 feet. This is not fair because history shows us that the majority of shipwrecks were blown toward or onto shore by hurricanes. The vast majority of shipwrecks on Florida's submerged lands are probably included within this area. It also means no one (without a grandfathered in Admiralty Claim) will get a permit within 500 yards of any inland waters, inlets, National Park systems, National Marine Sanctuaries such as the Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary), State Parks, Local public recreation areas, resource conservation areas and resource management areas, areas conveyed to public or private entities............. etc.

3. We believe the Division of Historical Resources should do more to work with the private sector salvors of Florida and encourage salvors to come into a fair, even handed and just permit process. Rule 1A-31 does not seek to do this.

4. We believe Florida's private sector salvors have done an excellent job of recovering and preserving our maritime heritage, to the direct benefit of the public and at little cost to the taxpayers and should be allowed to continue with as little interference as possible. Rule 1A-31 does not do this.

5. We do not want our tax dollars used by state archaeologists to dive on shipwrecks. The private sector salvors have done a great job, using their own money, with Florida getting the benefits by receiving 20% of the conserved artifacts and treasures recovered. We do not support any changes to rule 1A-31 that would make it harder for the salvors to continue.

6. We feel the new rule is unfair because it treats commercial salvors as second class citizens due to the fact that it does not give the same standards to commercial salvors as Rule 1A-32 gives to universities and nonprofit organizations. For example, the turnover or response time to get permits for 1A-32 is two weeks while commercial groups have waited months and in some cases, years. Also 1A-32 uses students as excavators while commercial enterprises must use experts.

7. We think Rule 1A-31 is unfair because university and nonprofit 1A‐32 permit holders get a search & survey, recovery & salvage permit ALL in their first permit while 1A-31 requires commercial salvors to obtain only search & survey permits with rules that vary from salvor to salvor. NO recovery & salvage permits (unless already grandfathered in by Federal Admiralty Claims) have been issued to commercial groups in Florida for over 15 years.

8. We are opposed to the rule because individuals who have current contracts for exploration have not all been individually notified of the workshops and hearings. It is also unfair that when they are notified, the locations of such meetings repeatedly take place at locations remote to the majority of the private and commercial entities that it will affect. Therefore, if a few dozen commercial groups from the Keys want to attend, they need to drive either 9 hours to St. Augustine area or 12 hours to the Tallahassee area (and back.) This means they have to miss THREE days work to attend. Two days driving and one day at the meetings. Future meetings should be held in a central location of the state such as the Orlando area to accommodate the majority of thestakeholders. Additionally, these meetings should not be held between June 1 and Sept 30th of any year, as that is the 120 day window for good weather conditions on the majority of the archaeological sites worked by commercial salvors in Florida.

9. We are opposed to the rule because it insists that an archaeologist be on board each salvage vessel during each and every survey and excavation. This is unnecessary because most electronic surveys are non‐intrusive and the majority of actual excavation areas are empty or turn out to be modern intrusions such as lawn chairs, discarded shrimp or lobster traps, beer cans and in some cases, U.S. military bombs in old target practice areas. Of course when major conglomerates of shipwreck material or scholarships 2012 structure are found, it would then be appropriate for the archaeologist to be on board to supervise the proper mapping and recording of these areas The reality is that the majority of the archaeologist's time is spent working with a cartographer, mapping and analyzing data collected during remote sensing surveys and identifying patterns from other known sites in an effort to decide which anomalies to excavate first, and writing reports after poring through the reams of data provide by the artifact recovery process. His presence on the site is not necessary until significant cultural deposits or structures are encountered.

10. The new rule should address some sort of Annual Adjudication of Title from the State to the permit holder rather than "Transfer of objects" in exchange for recovery services. This way, the state can receive donations of artifacts, because it is usually impossible to put an actual dollar value on each and every artifact found and this would create much confusion in tax law since the transfer of object has an indeterminable value.

11. This rule creates more work and overhead for DHR to manage their resources. Permits should be issued for a minimum of three years, much like the Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary, thereby alleviating costs to the DHR by reducing paperwork.

12. We feel this rule is unfair because commercial salvors are constantly in the research and development stages of using new technology for survey, excavation and conservation much of which is proprietary information. This rule eliminates many future possibilities and opportunities for research, development and testing of these new technologies.

13. We feel this rule is unfair because it requires the permit holder to turn over thousands of dollars worth of proprietary surveyresults without any guarantee that they will be allowed to salvage a site once it is found. There is no incentive for the permit holder to obtain a survey & exploration permit. An alternative would be to use wording similar to that in the Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary, which does not even require a "Survey & Exploration" permit at all and yet it seems to have been beneficial.