Total NOOB question-Silver UMax vs. ACE 250

[pyledriver]

Guys, I'm leaning very heavily towards purchasing the Silver UMax in the near future. However, being new to MD'ing, I'm still trying to figure out how to compare detectors! My goal is to buy something that might be slightly better than entry level, because I think I might get better use out of it, as well as not feeling like I have to have something better as soon as I begin to figure things out a bit. Of course, that WILL happen, but for now...

My other choice, based on price and opinions on this forum is the Garrett ACE250. I just haven't been able to find anywhere that these two units are compared!

What I have heard that makes me lean Tesoro is the iron discrimination. I know for a fact that the rundown old farmhouses I'm going to hit will be teeming with nails and tools, and who knows what else ferrous. Not only that, I REALLY want to prove a buddy wrong who is convinced I'll give up after I get tired of digging nails and not finding much else. I've heard the 250 has a little more trouble with iron?

I'm trying to keep an open mind about which direction to go, and honestly my price range could likely stretch to $400, but I don't know that I want to go that high not knowing what I'm getting into. Of course, I want to avoid the absolute low end so that I can get something of enough quality that I don't get frustrated and ebay the thing after awhile!

Any and all guidance is greatly appreciated!! I'm in the north Texas area where the soil is mostly black gumbo (clay), but do plan to hunt both east and west of here where the soil can be much more sandy. I mention that because I believe that both these units have set ground balance?

Thanks! (BTW-this is my first post)

 

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[SaginawIan]

You will want a Tesoro detector based on what you are saying. All detectors have problems with iron, some just have less problems! The Ace 250 will not fare as well with small iron. You will want one of these 3 - Silver Umax, Cibola, or Vaquero. I recommend the Silver Umax. I traded my ACE 250 for a Silver Umax and I don't regret it. The target ID on the ace is helpful -just not all that accurate, in my opinion. If you are going to dig clad coins from 3" deep - it will be right on. If you are looking to find deep coins - you will end up digging all signals eventually anyway. I used to rely on target ID but I found that once I started digging by sound only - my finds doubled - no joke.

For me the Silver Umax is the best detector I have ever used taking everything into account - including price. The ace 250 is also very nice, it just wasn't for me.

This forum has lots of reviews of the Silver series - read them and post more questions - we love to answer them!


Ian

 

[pyledriver]

Thanks! I've been reading the reviews and that's what swayed me more towards Tesoro. There are many things to learn about detectors! Hopefully with the help of this forum I'll be able to shorten the learning curve and start finding neat stuff!

I've always been interested in treasure (of all sorts), but none of my friends past or present were interested in the least and usually thought I was nuts to think that I could find ANYTHING. I've always known they were wrong because of the 5 silver certificates I found in an old rundown farmhouse when I was about 13! Looking back, those weren't the only treasures in that place, but for a dumb, goofy kid, old money is the coolest treasure out there, and all I was interested in. Still a dumb, goofy kid at 43 btw, but now I've learned to go my own way whether my friends follow or not!

My found treasures are arrowheads, fossils, old 50cal military bullets, crystals, geodes, money, old tools, indian trade beads, and various cool rocks. All that just by keeping my eyes peeled. I can't wait to see what waits for me with electronic help!

 

[OkieMike]

Go with the Tesoro.I hear that people have trouble pinpointing with the Ace.Since you are new to this hobby,I would look for a detector that is easy to use.That fits Tesoro to a "T". With $400 ,you could go Silver UMax at $239,or The Cibola for $340. Hope this helps.

 

[BuckleBoy]

My vote is the Tesoro too--and the customer service is exceptional. Lifetime warranties on Tesoros. They're also very user-friendly.

Regards,


Buckleboy

 

[BigHog]

These folks will have better information then I will. However being a total noob myself, I have been looking for comparisons. Here is a review, from another forum and not written by me. For the record I purchased an Ace 250 and a Tesoro Tiger Shark. Read as much as you can, then make up your own mind as to what you think will work best for you.

This last summer I bought an Ace 250 for the kids to use and as a loaner machine in case someone wanted to try their hand at detecting. After I used it a few times I found myself wishing I had gotten a Silver uMax instead. I was used to the single tone audio of my Tiger Shark and found the multiple tones of the Ace distracting. However, after using the ace a bit more I began to like it and I went and got a 4.5" coil for it. Then I got a good deal on a used Silver and got it and a 5.75" coil for it after having used the 4.5" on the ace. That sniper coil is fun, fun, fun to use and now it's permanently attached to the ace. I have used them both about the same amount of time now and I thought I would do a comparison for those thinking of these two machines.

Depth: The depth seems to be about the same for each with the stock coil, 6-7" on a quarter in an air test. This is with the sens. backed off a bit from max. I can't say how deep they will go in the ground as the deepest coins I have found are around 4". This is deep for my area as most coins are between 1" and 3". All of my old silver coin finds have been in this range also so I feel confident that most coins are shallow in my area. Most of the areas I hunt have undisturbed ground so most finds are shallow. The Silver gives a nice signal all the way out to the six inch range and then drops off suddenly after 7 inches. The audio gradually grows quieter as the target is moved farther out so that with a little practice you can usually tell the depth of your target with the Silver fairly accurately. The Ace gives the same tone to near its max depth with no drop off so you have to rely on the depth gauge wich is not always accurate. Also when you press the pinpoint button to detune for more accuracy in pinpointing the depth meter changes. At max depth the ace's tone will not be repeatable like the Silver's so its hard to tell if you have a deep target or just a piece of junk. Both detectors will hit deeper on larger objects like clock sprockets and larger coins.

weight: Both detectors are light and easy to swing but I give a slight edge to the Silver.

Audio: The Silver has a single tone. The ACE has a low tone for iron, a middle tone for foil through zn. cent. and a bell tone for coins. Even though the Silver has one tone it really talks to you with chirps and clicks and crackles that all have their own meanings that you must learn. To me the Ace doen't "talk" as much.

Discrimination: This is where the Ace shines. It has digital segmented notching which is a really nice feature. you can notch out everything but quarters without losing depth. On the Silver you lose considerable depth when you turn the disc. knob to max. With the silver I usually hunt in min. Disc. and thumb the disc. knob to identify targets for that very reason. There is no need to do this with the ace. You can set the notches any way you want. You can only accept the mid and low ranges if you are a serious gold ring hunter. Or set it for copper pennies and up and snarf up the coins. I like using the Ace in football fields and set it to only find quarters and dimes.

The discrimination on the Silver is excellent. Instead of having numbers written around the disc. knob it has words which is nice. Iron, Foil, 5 cents, tab, zn. cent, Max. At least on my machine these are dead accurate. Only quarters are repeatable at max. targets are knocked out cleanly at each setting. Unlike my other detectors crown type bottle tops disc. out lower so they are easy to spot. On the Ace you will get a bell tone (coin) for them but there is a trick. If you swing the coil real fast they will break up where a coin will stay repeatable. Any more I usually hunt in min disc. and dig everything as my good finds have gone way up since I have been doing this.

Sensitivity: I can run the Silver at the max boost range most of the time and it is quiet. I usually run the Ace one or two notches below Max. With the Silver set at max boost (the red zone on the know) I gain about 2" of depth. I get some falsing at maximum on the Ace.

Target I.D.: You would think that the Ace would have this one hands down being a TID machine but this is not so, in my experience. By thumbing the disc. knob on the Silver I believe I can tell what the target is 70% of the time. The Meter on the ace is a little less accurate. It will sometimes jump around between penny, dime, quarter and 50 cents. Sometimes it will say penny when its a dime and quarter when its a dime. When it locks on to one segment though it is usually accurate. I can tell the difference between a zn. cent, copper penny, dime and quarter with suprising accuracy on the silver by where they drop off on the scale and the disc. knob is conveniently located by your thumb on the Silver. If I just wanted to find gold jewelry, or only quarters then the Ace would have an advantage with its digital notch. Although I can easily cherry pick with both. On the Silver its just a matter of thumbing the disc. I give the advantage to the Ace because with the notch feature you can set it for mid range targets and not hear the others whereas with the Silver you hear all targets.

Pinpointing: Pinpointing is excellent with both detectors. Only the Ace has a dedicated pinpoint mode which is VCO. I have no trouble at all pinpointing the Silver in Disc. mode.

Controls: The Silver is about as simple as it could be with only a discrimination and sensitivity knob to mess with. Even though The Ace has more features it is also very easy to use. I really like the digital notch system and the different customizable programs. I have the "custom" mode on the ace set to accept foil, nickels and tabs for when I want to only hunt for gold jewelry.

Coils: The Silver uMax has a much greater selection of coils with a 4 incher all the way up to 3" x 18" widescan. The Ace does have the 4.5" Sniper coil which I highly recommend. I haven't checked into larger coils for the Ace.

Conclusion: Both detectors are excellent choices for the money with the Ace being a little less than the Silver. You definitely get more features with the Ace. If I had to pick one over the other I would choose the Silver as I really like Tesoros and I like a simple beep and dig machine. I usually loan the ace out to beginners with the Sniper coil becaue it is easy to pinpoint and fun to use. I hope this might help some who are trying to decide between the two. You really can't go wrong with either.

 

[BuckleBoy]

That is an excellent review, BigHog. Thank you! I hunt with the Silver and my Fisher 1266-X--which are both non-meter, non-VDI or TID machines. My buddies hunt with the XLT and Ace 250, and they are always impressed that I can "ID" a target by thumbing the knob. It takes practice, but it's a great feeling to know that you're hearing everything at maximum depth for the machine all the time. Besides--my philosophy is this: Meters are for folks who are fussy about which signals they dig. I have many great finds that I likely wouldn't have gotten unless I dug it all.

Regards,


Buckleboy

 

[Michigan Badger]

BigHog did a great job of giving you what you asked for.

I'll add my vote for the Silver. In that price range nothing beats it when all things are considered.

The meters they put on VLF detectors do basically two things:

1) They tell you to dig a target you were going to dig anyway.

2) They tell you not to dig a target you should have dug.

Read those two sentences about 10 times.

Badger

 

[bavarianminister]

Love my tesoro cibola! A great entry detector - having heard great things about the Silver Umax. That detector would probably be the best entry level detector. Hear about a lot of folks who have much more expensive detectors who use the Silver umax as their primary detector. These tesoros are extremely light weight. One who detects longer will most likely come home with some great finds. Just a thought!

 

[pyledriver]

Thanks for the help!! I'll probably end up buying one online since I can't seem to find any dealers in my area (Dallas). I was surprised to see that Kellyco doesn't carry Tesoro.. No matter! I'll HOPEFULLY be posting some neat finds in the very near future!

 

[pyledriver]

SSHHHHH! I'm not supposed to know that Santa is bringing me a TESORO SILVER UMAX!!!!!! The wife used my cc to order it and they called me to verify it wasn't fraud..not a surprise anymore but WOOOOOHHOOOOOO!! There are two derelict farmhouses very near me. One I have permission to do whatever I want. The other I need to figure out who owns so I can beg permission.

 

[SkiWhiz]

SSHHHHH! I'm not supposed to know that Santa is bringing me a TESORO SILVER UMAX!!!!!! The wife used my cc to order it and they called me to verify it wasn't fraud..not a surprise anymore but WOOOOOHHOOOOOO!! There are two derelict farmhouses very near me. One I have permission to do whatever I want. The other I need to figure out who owns so I can beg permission.

You will be really amazed how good the Silver uMax is. My wife & I used one last summer and it is one coin magnet and found us some nice rings and jewelry also. I had a Ace 250 (good machine) but I would take 1 Silver uMax to 5 Ace 250's - the Silver uMax is that good. Let us know your thoughts on your new machine. Steve...

 

[ModernMiner]

SSHHHHH! I'm not supposed to know that Santa is bringing me a TESORO SILVER UMAX!!!!!! The wife used my cc to order it and they called me to verify it wasn't fraud..not a surprise anymore but WOOOOOHHOOOOOO!! There are two derelict farmhouses very near me. One I have permission to do whatever I want. The other I need to figure out who owns so I can beg permission.

PD,
You'll be VERY happy with the Silver. I've been hunting farms and playgrounds with mine for over a year now, and it keeps up with the high $ machines no problem. It may not show you a pretty picture, but it WILL find the goodies.
It's lightweight and super easy to use.
Have fun,
MM

 

[EDDE]

My vote is the Tesoro too--and the customer service is exceptional. Lifetime warranties on Tesoros. They're also very user-friendly.

Regards,


Buckleboy

i that second with twinkle toes

 

[UncleVinnys]

Hey, Big Hog

Thank you for an EXCELLENT comparison of Tesoro versus Ace 250, as those are the two machines I am now considering.

Question: What do you mean by "thumbing the discriminator"?

What happens when you scan a target with the disc. low versus high, and how does that tell you if the target is good?

I presume as the disc. increases the readout will go from dig to no-dig on a bad target,
but how does that differ between the Ace and the uMax?

 

[Dan B]

"Thumbing the discriminator" works like this:

You start scanning with the disc low. Swing the coil and you get what sounds like a good signal. However, because your discrimination is minimal, that good signal could be almost anything. As you repeatedly swing the coil over the target, you take your thumb and slowly rotate the discriminator knob up with every pass or two. Keep going until the signal starts to break up, crackle or whatever. At that point, look at the knob. Once you practice this, you will be able to tell what a target is with as much certainty as a visual ID unit (neither of which is going to be 100%). Once the target is dug, return the disc knob to a minimal setting and continue scanning.

One thing to note is that with the Tejon, this process is virtually eliminated due to the dual discriminators. A flip of the toggle switches between the discriminators. You can run both in disc mode, or have #1 in all metal and #2 set to disc. It's a sweet set-up that I first used about 18 years ago with the Garrett Freedom 2 Plus.

Dan

 

[SONICMASD]

Hi everyone its my first post here and i gotta say that this site has TONS of great info and i look forward to frequenting it as i start my treasure hunting adventures.

This thread is everything i was looking for also. trying to decide on my first detector ACE250 vs Silver Umax or Compadre and this thread and all the other umax reviews have sold the deal.

Time to order my uMAx!