Trade kettles

[Ia.FurTrade]

Found these many years ago in an Ioway Indian village site.
The three brass kettles were nested togather with a large lid over the top.
There was a fur, cut strips of leather, and many squash seeds in-between
them that had been preserved by the sulphates leeching out of the metal.
The serpent-spout tea kettle was dug from the cut wall of the grader ditch along the road that borders the site.
The kettles were down 2 1/2' (to the top).
Dale

 

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[Brad_WI]

WOW..awesome finds..congrats!

 

[Rege-PA]

Wonderful finds! The voyageurs often shipped kettles nested together with each one becoming progressively larger, that way many could be carried in the space of one. In 1960 17 brass trade kettles were found nested together on Horse Tail rapids in the Granite river, a site of a recorded voyageur canoe loss.

 

[Rege-PA]

If your in the upper corner of Minnesota I have info on many sites that were searched by scuba in the 60`s and 70`s, finding thousands of fur trade items, in some cases bundles of "rat spears etc". Many of the sites were not searched with a metal detector and I`m sure there were many over looked items, if you want more info, let me know your location and I will tell you what I know. PM me on this site.

 

[dneyedli@res1.mts.net]

WOW! whole kettles, now imagine how many pieces the natives could cut those into and drive me crazy finding kettle scrap all day! Very nice finds indeed.
Rege-PA, the Quetico-Superior research team uncovered a lot of finds in the water. Most of those finds were found in the bottom of deep pools where cargo would end up from being carried away in the current. Land is a different story and one has to look for good camping areas and portage trails. Of course finding a fort or post is the mother load! Quetico came to my province (Manitoba) and conducted research on the Winnipeg River. They didn't last very long because of the mighty current the Winnipeg has. I bet there is a ton of goods in there. They also tried the Saskatchewan River and were riddled with problems as well.Two very important waterways.
Glad to see that there is now a fur trade section!
Nice finds.
Dave.

 

[Rege-PA]

Muddyhandz...The research team had much info on the recorded wrecks and it was just a matter of searching the rapids named, many other wrecks were not found, such as those lost in squalls on lakes. There must be some very rich spots along their routes because they tended to stop fairly often to have a "pipe", a distance of from five to six miles depending on wind and current. Favorite spots, sandy beaches, sheltered bays, spits of land with a good breeze to fend off the insects would contain many artifacts, as these places were used over and over during the fur trade and probably before that by the Native Americans who first showed them the routes.
I agree that these sites are hard to find but with the researched maps available, and google earth, combined with a knowledge of the bush, I believe that these areas can be located by someone persistent. The Spring of the year would be a good time to look, right after the snow melts. Looking forward to your finds!

 

[Old Relic]

Unfortunately, the use of metal detectors and the collection of archaeological and historic materials is prohibited in the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness and, I believe, Quetico Provincial Park. My son, who is an archaeologist, and I found evidence of occupation while on a canoe trip up there and had to leave it where it was.

 

[Rege-PA]

Old Relic...it must have taken real will power to leave things in situ, still many of these items have a limited shelf life (iron) and there will be only stains for future generations.

 

[Old Relic]

Old Relic...it must have taken real will power to leave things in situ, still many of these items have a limited shelf life (iron) and there will be only stains for future generations.

It did. The site is on a small island across a narrow channel from a single pictograph. We found flakes, broken arrowheads and a couple of complete arrowheads. I've wondered if there is any significance to the proximity of the picto or if it was just coincidental that someone stopped there and knapped, maybe waiting out high wind and waves as we were.

It kills me to leave history in the ground to be lost forever simply because the recovery isn't by a museum or university or government agency. I feel the British have a much more reasonable policy, allowing amateurs to participate in artifact recovery.

Relic

 

[Rege-PA]

Old Relic...Many spots were favored due to a nice sandy beach where a birch bark canoe could be pulled up without damage, again most small islands are relatively insect free due to the breezes and anyone who has spent time in the N/woods knows how important that can be. The pictograph signifies a special place of repeated use, either as a land mark or of some ritualistic importance. Were the points and flakes of the same lithic material?
Maybe a source nearby and they wanted to conslidate their material. Another reason for an island stop is good visibility and defense. There must be thousands of these spots with the same traits that could lead to other locations.

 

[Old Relic]

Rege-PA...

"Many spots were favored due to a nice sandy beach where a birch bark canoe could be pulled up without damage, again most small islands are relatively insect free due to the breezes and anyone who has spent time in the N/woods knows how important that can be."

On the same trip, we came across a beautiful sand beach on a point, a fairly rare occurrence in the area. The sand bottom dropped gradually and my son and I commented to each other that it would be an deal place for a summer camp. We also thought what a prime spot it would be to hunt with a detector.

"Were the points and flakes of the same lithic material?"

The material that we found on the island was all the same, a dark grey stone.

Relic

 

[hikeinmts]

Unfortunately, the use of metal detectors and the collection of archaeological and historic materials is prohibited in the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness and, I believe, Quetico Provincial Park. My son, who is an archaeologist, and I found evidence of occupation while on a canoe trip up there and had to leave it where it was.

Old Relic, what does your son, the archeologist, think about leaving stuff ........ probably to be lost to antiquity? I ran into archeologists' influence in Virginia, when stationed there. Several old old homes, nice people, would have let me hunt, but an archeologist/team had told them not to let people with machines onto the property. Would the
archeologists ever be back? Not in my lifetime, or the next. You know the drill.
The person who mentioned the British regs is right-on. We could/would be a tremendous help, if the professionals would let us be, and even do some training. (Well, that got me started, didn't it.) I am glad you obeyed the law....that is important, too. But, some laws are not only stupid, they aren't right. IMHO.

 

[Old Relic]

He sees both sides of the issue and tempers academic idealism with practicality. He recognizes that there will never be enough resources to research everything in the ground which is why I can't understand why we aren't utilized here the way hobbyists are in Britain. He can agree with my opinion that it's more criminal to let potentially significant archaeological evidence corrode in the ground than it is to allow us to recover it.

Relic

 

[Tnmountains]

These are astonishing.

I for one would love to see some closeups of the pieces.

Yes if this thread is still active I would like to see the seams and any rivet points for the wire handle. I have one my dad brought back from Pennsylvania where he grew up. He said it was revolutionary war I am thinking trade bucket. Thank you.
TnMountains

 

[silvercop]

wow first time i ever saw one of those