Treasure hunting the National Seashores

[BLK]

I have been told that metal detecting on a National Sea Shore is an automatic $10,000.00 fine, first time offense, not negotiable. Is that true of all national sea shores, national parks?

"A man who trades his guns for plow shares will be plowing for the man that doesn't"

 

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[Tom_in_CA]

I have been told that metal detecting on a National Sea Shore is an automatic $10,000.00 fine, first time offense, not negotiable. Is that true of all national sea shores, national parks? .......

This is probably going to be one of those questions where ........ if you ask enough bureaucrats , archies and lawyers (while pointing them in the direction of various dry dusty minutia), that you will no doubt find one of them to tell you that it's off-limits.

But there was a humorous story of a newbie, here in CA, who simply didn't know any better. He'd gotten his first detector back in the mid 1990s, and wondered "where do I use it at?". Well, doh, THE BEACH, of course So off he went to the beach nearest his home, which happened to be federal. He got the expected clad. He returned the following weekend for some more. And on and on it went for months. Each time he was getting better and better, to the point where he'd be getting 100+ coins anytime he cared to go. And eventually some gold rings. The "towel line" was practically virgin!

Eventually he began to wonder "why aren't the locals all over this?" D/t he began to surmise there were other hobbyists in his area. But ... hey, he wasn't complaining! This went on for a year or two. Eventually I became internet pen-pals with this fellow, and got him to let his guard down and tell me where his secret honey-hole was.

When he told me the name of the beach, I told him "isn't that beach off-limits?". At first, he refused to believe it. He assumed I was the one who must be mistaken. Because, afterall, what harm does it do to detect a beach ? And afterall, he'd been there for well over a year by this point, in full daylight, broad view of anyone and everyone. Yup, with rangers passing him by with nothing but a friendly wave. In full view of manned lifeguard towers, etc... So certainly, if something were wrong, then someone would have said something by now, right ? Hence it was me who must be mistaken.

But ... eventually ... he met others in his area too, and on-line. And ... after awhile, looking into what they were saying, began to see that , in fact, there was something there about perhaps cultural heritage or some such minutia. Hmmmm..

So now he's faced with a dilema: Keep going, or stop? Because by now it was painfully obvious that it was a non-issue, and no one cared. So.... could you blame him if he simply kept going ? Doh!

 

[Clay Diggins]

No need to speculate.

From the Code of Federal Regulations. NATIONAL PARK SERVICE, DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR, RESOURCE PROTECTION, PUBLIC USE AND RECREATION CFR 36 2.1

Preservation of natural, cultural and archeological resources.
(a) Except as otherwise provided in this chapter, the following is prohibited:

(7) Possessing or using a mineral or metal detector, magnetometer, side scan sonar, other metal detecting device, or subbottom profiler.
This paragraph does not apply to:
(i) A device broken down and stored or packed to prevent its use while in park areas.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Don't be mislead by Tom, ALL National Seashores and National Parks are off limits and they do care....

 

[Tom_in_CA]

No need to speculate.

From the Code of Federal Regulations. NATIONAL PARK SERVICE, DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR, RESOURCE PROTECTION, PUBLIC USE AND RECREATION CFR 36 2.1

I'm sure that such text is well known at sensitive historic monuments under their care. Sure. But what about their beaches ? I'm sure if someone showed that text to all those rangers who "paid my friend no mind", that .... they'd read it, blink a few times, and agree. Then tell you and I "no you can't". So .... I guess my friend didn't show that to enough of the rangers and life-guards. Shame on him.

He'll go back now, and seed the beach with those rings and clad. Absolving his grief-stricken conscience of all guilt.

But seriously now, what do you do in a case like I gave? If this person became aware of such deeply buried boiler plate minutia, after several years of never having anyone care in the slightest, ......... then what ?

I know the technical answer (that it 'doesn't matter whether it's enforced or anyone cares'), but ........ realistically ...... can you blame him for being torn on whether he should just continue ?

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Tom do not mislead new members, it is illegal and you know it....

We are not going down this road again either..

 

[trdking]

How do you check to see which beaches are legal? I was just going to do a beach in my hood. any help on this is appreciated!

 

[Tom_in_CA]

How do you check to see which beaches are legal? I was just going to do a beach in my hood. any help on this is appreciated!

You look up rules for yourself. The only beaches I know of that have any such rule (as this thread is about) is federal. You *might* have some states say their state-park beaches have something ....... But I see you're from CA. And I can tell you for a fact that you can detect state of CA beaches till you're blue in the face. I don't know of any federal beaches down by San Clemente. If there is any, well ......... I guess those are the only ones you'd need to avoid.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... and they do care....

I don't disagree that someone, somewhere, along that chain of federal workers, "cares". Yes. I'm surmising that all the people he'd run into, for nearly 2 yrs, were .... I guess ....... just un-informed.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

I don't disagree that someone, somewhere, along that chain of federal workers, "cares". Yes. I'm surmising that all the people he'd run into, for nearly 2 yrs, were .... I guess ....... just un-informed.

As I stated, do not mislead new members, National Seashores and National Parks are illegal and off limits..

 

[trdking]

You look up rules for yourself. The only beaches I know of that have any such rule (as this thread is about) is federal. You *might* have some states say their state-park beaches have something ....... But I see you're from CA. And I can tell you for a fact that you can detect state of CA beaches till you're blue in the face. I don't know of any federal beaches down by San Clemente. If there is any, well ......... I guess those are the only ones you'd need to avoid.

Thanks Tom. Im new to the MD side of hunting. This helps a ton!

 

[Nugs Bunny]

No need to speculate.

From the Code of Federal Regulations. NATIONAL PARK SERVICE, DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR, RESOURCE PROTECTION, PUBLIC USE AND RECREATION CFR 36 2.1

But not speculating takes all the fun out of it!

 

[Nugs Bunny]

This is probably going to be one of those questions where ........ if you ask enough bureaucrats , archies and lawyers (while pointing them in the direction of various dry dusty minutia), that you will no doubt find one of them to tell you that it's off-limits.

No need to hail the King of Spain Tom... No need to dust off the law books either... Designated National Seashores are under the authority of the National Park Service, IE National Seashores are National Parks. Clay Diggins and TH are 100% correct and there is no debate.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

No need to hail the King of Spain Tom... No need to dust off the law books either... Designated National Seashores are under the authority of the National Park Service, IE National Seashores are National Parks. Clay Diggins and TH are 100% correct and there is no debate.

yup, no "speculating". I'm sure such things were written, way-back-when, for the obvious historic sensitive monuments contained in their boundaries. But .... sure, it would apply to innocuous sandboxes and beaches within the boundaries now too (despite rank & file perhaps not being aware of this). It's not like it's catch-all "cultural heritage", or "alteration" verbage, when it specifically contains the word "metal detector", doh!

 

[cudamark]

How do you check to see which beaches are legal? I was just going to do a beach in my hood. any help on this is appreciated!

No problem with any of our SoCal beaches that I'm aware of.....be it State or local. I don't know of any Federal ones. That's always been a question of mine.......how can you possibly hurt anything on a sandy beach?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

No problem with any of our SoCal beaches that I'm aware of.....be it State or local. ...

Cudamark, most of the CA coastline beaches are administered by the state. As opposed to county, or city, or federal. And so long as any md'r can remember, there is no problem on state-of-CA run beaches. They've simply, quite frankly, been md'd since the dawn of detector (I know some guys who were detecting them in the mid 1960s even). So ... who's to argue with that, eh ?

However, one day, in the early 2000's, a buddy of mine was md'ing at Seacliff State beach (south of Santa Cruz). It *just so happened* that a state archaeologist was visiting from Sacramento, getting ready to give a lecture at the little beach-side museum that's right there. And it *just so happened* that ... as he was walking from his car to the musuem, that he happened to glance out to the beach. And he *just so happened* to see my friend detecting. He detoured from his walk path, walked down on to the beach, and READ MY FRIEND THE RIOT ACT.

At first, my friend was taken back, and thought this was all some big mistake. Because, as you know you can detect state beaches, no problem. Right ? The more he listened to the fellow rant, he became aware of the guy being a state archie. And when my friend tried to object and say "since when?" and "where is that written?", the guy pointed over at the 1920's wharf & cement ship, and started rambling about "historic" or "cultural" or some such nonsense.

This is actually sort of laughable, because Seacliff is amongst the NEWEST of the CA beaches for public access/use. The road leading down from the cliffs didn't even exist till the 1920s. So the 2 of them squared off and argued a bit, with neither one of them backing down. The archie stormed off, threatening that he was going to get a ranger to come boot or ticket him or something.

As soon as the archie was gone, my friend realized he didn't want to be around, when and if that archie returned with a ranger (although it could have been an empty threat, he wasn't sure). So .... after a few more minutes, he decided to pack it in and call it a day.

He reported this encounter on a local CA md'ing forum. And ... as can be expected, we all laughed KNOWING that "certainly this archie is mistaken . Because everyone knows you can detect state of CA beaches, right ? So this would simply be a matter of looking up the law, and then "putting this guy in his place", right ?

But the more we looked into the minutia ..... the more we realized that ... uh .... we'd better leave 'good enough alone'. Because there is, in fact, cultural heritage wording in the CA parks wording (as there probably is in all 50 states for that matter). And ... afterall, it's *possible* you might find something old, right ? So rather than think we were going to "clarify this" or "set this guy straight", it was decided to do absolutely nothing. Odds are, that guy went back to Sacramento, and is not going to be at the beach again, nor will likely see an md'r, etc.... So why swat a hornet's nest ? If no one else, besides a single purist archie, in the entire state "cares less", why oh why seek to 'clarify' anything ?

That was 15 yrs. ago. And still, to this day, you can detect state of CA beaches till you're blue in the face. Moral of the story ? Sometimes it's better NOT to make waves and ask silly questions.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Asking if you can detect National Seashore Parks which is vwhat this thread was about is not a silly question, arguing that no one really cares is the wrong reply, it violates Federal law and violates TreasureNet rules....

 

[Tom_in_CA]

point duly noted. Someone else brought up "state" and "CA", after the O.P. But curious Th'r: knowing now, what you know, what's in post #16: If you were coming to CA, would you hunt state of CA beaches here ? (if this doesn't jive with this thread post start, I understand, no need to answer).

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Tom, I would have no problem hunting state beaches as long as the state law doesn't state "no metal detecting on State beaches"...

 

[cudamark]

That's the rub.....it doesn't say specifically NO DETECTING but those in charge could interpret other areas in the code that could effectively do so. You know, the "you can detect but you can't dig, disturb, alter, etc" nonsense that applies to virtually every park in the U.S.