Trying to nail down an Id

[Older The Better]

Found this a while back and had it as a Madison/jug hill
But it’s quite a bit larger than any other triangle points I’ve found. On the other hand it’s pretty small for a dart point. I found it in a woodland site that has produced smaller triangular points a grand point a kay blade and what I think is the top of a hopewell/Snyder’s






Maybe I’m overthinking it but I want to get the best id I can before I record it. What do you think stick with triangle or is it maybe a preform?

 

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[Tdog]

Madison is out of the distribution area for Kansas by +/- 200 miles according to... https://www.projectilepoints.net/Points/Madison.html

Note that the base is straight to slightly concave on Madisons. Yours appears to be convex. I'd vote preform given the two choices. Not familiar with Jug Hill.

 

[Older The Better]

It’s the Madison equivalent in Kansas area, I said Madison because I’m not sure how credible jug hill is, I don’t find much on it outside of overstreet and it only appeared in the new version

 

[uniface]

If it's in an Overstreet edition that Matt Rowe ("Neanderthal" here) edited, it's a valid type.

 

[Older The Better]

Yep point typology by Rowe but just doesn’t seem the same as the others. I just don’t know different enough or if it’s just an extra large version

 

[Tdog]

Yep point typology by Rowe but just doesn’t seem the same as the others. I just don’t know different enough or if it’s just an extra large version

You must have discounted the preform suggestion as a probability.

 

[Older The Better]

I was still thinking that was a strong option sorry I guess I wasn’t clear, the way I’ve got it in my mind jug hill, is thought to be a preform to washita. So if it is a preform what is it’s next step? Snyder’s cluster I imagine are more oval shaped and bigger. Other things at the site suggest late woodland to historic so I’m looking at points along those lines. Looking through overstreet I didn’t see any that immediately jumped out at me. Maybe I’ll just have to settle for preform but I was hoping for a more exact id

 

[Neanderthal]

It's likely a Jug Hill variant or it could be a Reeds preform. We did find some Jug Hill points with a convex base like that at the type site but the vast majority were straight to concave. While some were used as triangular arrow points from the get-go, many of them were preform for Washita. They are the most common arrow point found in Oklahoma and southern Kansas and they used to mistakenly be called "Fresno".

Jug Hill are to Washita as Madison are to Cahokia, as North are to Snyders, as Wadlow are to Etley, as Woodruff are to Fulton...and so forth.

 

[Older The Better]

Hmmmm, thanks for the info, I’m leaning towards calling it jug hill. Out of curiosity is there a report somewhere on that site? Id be curious how mine compares

 

[uniface]

No way is Google your friend, but it can be useful. You can even use it yourself !

 

[Neanderthal]

Hmmmm, thanks for the info, I’m leaning towards calling it jug hill. Out of curiosity is there a report somewhere on that site? Id be curious how mine compares

Bulletin of the Oklahoma Anthropological Society; The Jug Hill Site MY-18 XII 1964:49 - by Don Wykoffe

 

[Older The Better]

Fantastic, thanks for looking.

As far as google goes I’m often disappointed, I can’t remember the name but I was looking for something with the same name as some famous guy and no matter how I searched I couldn’t get away from him, even using the trick where you put something around words to tell google to ignore results.

 

[uniface]

Hint : search term (name)_point usually brings up real estate developments. But (name) point artifact gets you where you want to go.

FWIW

 

[Older The Better]

Oh I remember. a guy was playing a song that was stuck in my head and all I could remember was him singing “jerry lee”... and I could not get anything but results about jerry lee Lewis... never did figure that one out