Unsure if this is the right catergory to post this

[julnsmokey]

Hi. My husband has been meteal detecting for awhile since I got him his first detector a few years ago. Not sure when he was here last but I have a special problem and he isn't here to help me so here goes.
:
I believe my son ate a push pin about 3 days ago. It was in his ceiling and he manuvered his bed and somehow got it down. I looked everywhere but couldn't find it. I got the bright idea yesterday to sweep him with my husband's detector. Sure enough, it beeped around his abdomen on the right side. (the arrow was pointing to "foil") So after discussing with the dr, she suggested some miralax and wait it out. Oh yes, and the wonderful job of checking the poo.

Today, I decided to sweep him again. The ping happened again at a slightly lower spot on his abdomen. I figure I'm doing fine.

Then I consider that I have no idea how to properly operate the darn thing and I should do a "control" to make sure it wasn't just pinging randomly.

I took him outside (so I could be sure no nails in the floor, walls, whatever were setting it off) and this time I did a head to toe sweep. Funny, his head pinged as well as his stomach. So, I swept myself...nothing. I tried adjusting the sensitivity to the lowest setting and did the same thing. Same results for both of us. I brought my daughter outside. Her head and abdomen pinged. I made several adjustments and both of them pinged and I did not. I also recruited my sister, my 2 dogs, and my cat. No pings.

You're probably wondering what the heck is wrong with me at this point, but let me explain.

My children are twins, 4 1/2 years old. They both have regressive autism. In short, they started out typically developing and then just nose dived. My son lost his ability to speak entirely. Recently, (about a week and a half ago) we got our first test results from a new dr we are seeing. (A DAN! dr-which is a doc that specializes in autism treatment). The labs clearly show very high levels of mercury, aluminum, arsenic, PCBs, and lead. We are still collecting samples and will not start any chelation treatment until ALL of the labs are in. So, understandably, we are very concerned.

My research into this stuff has shown that mercury and lead are stored in brain tissue and elsewhere. My questions are these:
Just how sensitive are these things?
How much metal would have to be ther to make the machine ping?
Am I just doing it wrong?

Keep in mind that I'm a complete idiot where metal detectors are concerned. I might be over-reacting but after these horrible test results (my daughter's results are still pending) I'm a tiny bit freaked about it pinging by my kids' heads.

Any input would be appreciated.
Thanks, Julie (non-detector wife of Kixlsyd)

 

[julnsmokey]

Sorry, forgot to mention it is a bounty hunter metal detector quick draw II

 

[EasyMoney]

This is a relatively easy one to answer...

Although a bit involved..

First off, nearly ANY metal detector will register a pin in all-metal if it's within 2" of the searchcoil, except for only certain Minelabs, certain low-end older Tesoros, a couple of cheaper Bounty Hunters, Chinese cheapies, and some Garrett 100 and 400 series. The cheap White's are quite sensitive to linear iron targets (pins, nails, steel wire, etc), count on it. REAL sensitive!

Secondly, in discrimination mode though, most detectors will NOT detect a pin even it sit's right on the searchcoil.

A dedicated nugget hunting detector will find it if it's within 4" or so of the search coil in all-metal. Some will find it as far away as 7", such as a Fisher GoldBug or Compass Nugget detector, MXT, or GMT, Super Traq, Garrett GoldStinger, some Minelabs, etc.

We all are made of many metalic elements, including copper, iron, magnesuim, mangenese, etc. And because of this, we aften will give out a signal to a metal detector. A detector that is not ground-balanced to ourselves (can) emit a signal, but usually it's very weak if registered at all.

However, all but the top of the line Bounty Hunters would probably not be able to register the pin inside out bodies, unless the searchcoil is within 2 inches of it.

That being said, your Doctor already knows how to check for the pin anyway. It can be done via x-ray OR a run through the tube. Additionally, there are metal detectors specifically made for this type of situation and some doctors actually do use them too.

A highly sensitive compass with a killer magnetic charge in the needle will give you a better ID than a highly sensitive metal detector, if the pin is steel and it is close to the needle.

Last thing to think about; A diet of high breads, pastry, grain bulk of some kind including corn will pad the pin and enable it to more safely pass through the digestve system hopefully without harming the child.

Hope this helps.

EasyMoney

 

[Farmercal]

My son swallowed a quarter when he was 6 or 7 and I detected it with my metal detector in his stomach. The doctors used a scope and when down his esophagus and removed the quarter before it passed through his system. They thought it wise not to let it set in the stomach any longer. I am surprised your doctor didn't recommend the same thing for you son.

 

[EasyMoney]

Yes, I am surprised too Farmer, but..

A steel pin will quickly dissolve in hydrochloric acid, and a quarter will not. Overnight, it might even get dissolved in a bottle of Coca Cola. Our stomach acid is "1000 times stronger than any food we eat", according to my Doctor, I wonder if that's why they didn't do anything else about it, or did they?.

However, what if the thing punctures the soft tissue?

Is something amiss here? I may not be a doctor, but I sure would be concerned about a pin being in MY stomach. I inhaled a fly one day and they didn't think anything would happen except for the fly slowly dissolving in my lungs, or it possibly causing an infection somehow.

I would certainly be asking that doctor some serous questions, that's for sure.

 

[julnsmokey]

Thanks for the responses. The pediatric gastroenterologist told me that kids swallow many things and pass them no problem. What I think he swallowed was a small push pin, with a plasic end and a small (about 1/4") pin. She told me they would not do anything if I went in as they would wait to see if it passed on its own as it had been 2 1/2 days before I realized what had happened.

 

[UncleVinnys]

Wow, what a fascinating researcher you are.
I am a nurse, and I can tell you MANY important discoveries are made by people
like you - people who can think outside the box, and who are not hampered
by accepted norms.

I would do some Google searches on the metals angle,
(such as http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/autism.htm


and I would suggest
you join some of the discussion groups. You may be able to
add to the body of knowledge on this autism subject.

As for the amount of metal - that is a good question.
As a novice detectorist I have found most detectors are quites sensitive,
or can be tuned for maximum sensitivity and are often capable of detecting
objects smaller than the head of a pin.
I would suspect, if the metal is acting as a toxic substance, and is distributed
throughout the brain tissue, that it would be diffuse, and not a concentrated
object, like a BB or anything, but would be in microscopic sizes spread throughout
the organ. My initial impression though is that if it sets off a metal detector, then
relative to other elements and chemicals in the brain that there is a sizable
accumulation.

The next step I would recommend it using a discriminating detector
to ascertain what amount may be ferrous (iron) or other metals.
I know there are specific frequencies that are better for different metals.
I have a Falcon MD-20, which is designed for gold, for example, and there
may be ways to detect for silver or other specific metals.

I will be checking back to see what others say.

Vince

 

[Farmercal]

EasyMoney, you are right. I didn't think about the steel being eaten up by the acid. The quarter wouldn't have been as affected and it did stick to a part of his stomach and wasn't moving. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[shanegalang]

Do they have fillings in their teeth?
Might be whats setting off the detector near the head. Good luck, Shane

 

[julnsmokey]

Do they have fillings in their teeth?
Might be whats setting off the detector near the head. Good luck, Shane

No fillings. I even detected myself (I have several amalgam fillings) and I got no pings. It's so weird.

 

[julnsmokey]

Wow, what a fascinating researcher you are.
I am a nurse, and I can tell you MANY important discoveries are made by people
like you - people who can think outside the box, and who are not hampered
by accepted norms.

I would do some Google searches on the metals angle,
(such as http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/autism.htm


and I would suggest
you join some of the discussion groups. You may be able to
add to the body of knowledge on this autism subject.

As for the amount of metal - that is a good question.
As a novice detectorist I have found most detectors are quites sensitive,
or can be tuned for maximum sensitivity and are often capable of detecting
objects smaller than the head of a pin.
I would suspect, if the metal is acting as a toxic substance, and is distributed
throughout the brain tissue, that it would be diffuse, and not a concentrated
object, like a BB or anything, but would be in microscopic sizes spread throughout
the organ. My initial impression though is that if it sets off a metal detector, then
relative to other elements and chemicals in the brain that there is a sizable
accumulation.

The next step I would recommend it using a discriminating detector
to ascertain what amount may be ferrous (iron) or other metals.
I know there are specific frequencies that are better for different metals.
I have a Falcon MD-20, which is designed for gold, for example, and there
may be ways to detect for silver or other specific metals.

I will be checking back to see what others say.

Vince

Hi Vince-thanks for the reply. That's a pretty good site. I like Dr. Rimland. I really appreciate your input. I think my next step is an abdominal xray. I haven't found any plastic remnants or metal so just to be safe we'll have to get some films. I am still worried about the head pinging though. We are waiting for our results of the provoked urine test to give us comprehensive levels of each of the metals. It's a long process and I'm a little bit frantic about letting this metal sit in them any longer than it already has. Unfortunately, chelation takes awhile to get it done safely. We're hoping removing the metals will allow the brain to heal and the therapy will make new pathways. Thanks again, Julie

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

I'm a bowhunter and I use old-fashioned cedar arrows and two-deged broadheads. Whan I can't find the head I use my metal detector to scan the deer (opening up a deer and sticking your hands inside is NOT the time to discover the missing broadhead).

Interestingly, there are three spots on a deer that give metal readings. The back of the skull, just above the heart and at the liver where all the blood vessels enter/exit. I first discovered the latter when I kept getting a reading and could find nothing. So, I started dividing the entrails in half (this gets grose so you might want to move on if you're of weak constitution). I would scan, trim away the "non reading" matter and continue. Finally I was left with small piles of goo and the readings just stopped. If you,ve ever sliced into a deer's stomach(s) you know this is nasty. Yuck.

Later I read in a state game biologists report that sodium/salts in the blood and body will give false readings - just like at the beach!

After all that I found the broadhead 20 yards back down the trail of where the deer collapsed.

 

[julnsmokey]

I'm a bowhunter and I use old-fashioned cedar arrows and two-deged broadheads. Whan I can't find the head I use my metal detector to scan the deer (opening up a deer and sticking your hands inside is NOT the time to discover the missing broadhead).

Interestingly, there are three spots on a deer that give metal readings. The back of the skull, just above the heart and at the liver where all the blood vessels enter/exit. I first discovered the latter when I kept getting a reading and could find nothing. So, I started dividing the entrails in half (this gets grose so you might want to move on if you're of weak constitution). I would scan, trim away the "non reading" matter and continue. Finally I was left with small piles of goo and the readings just stopped. If you,ve ever sliced into a deer's stomach(s) you know this is nasty. Yuck.

Later I read in a state game biologists report that sodium/salts in the blood and body will give false readings - just like at the beach!

After all that I found the broadhead 20 yards back down the trail of where the deer collapsed.

That's interesting about the salts giving false readings. I didn't know that. Perhaps that is the cause? Very interesting.