Update on Wisconsin DNR Issue

[Scully]

Hi guys,

We now have bills before the committees and the support of 10 representatives (which is very good). Very soon now they will have hearings and some of us will be speaking on behalf of the hobby. It will be extremely important, once these hearings begin, that we have a LARGE ATTENDANCE of hobbyists and fans of detecting. The more, the better! It is very important to show the legislatures that the interest in this is HIGH! These meetings and the times, may not be at times that make it easy for us to attend, but if you can, please make plans to drop what you are doing and get as many supporters as you can to at least make a showing, and sign in as supporters of the bill. These meetings also could be with very short notice so we will need you all to take some responsibility and inform as many of your friends/family as possible, as quickly as you can, so you can line up followers to attend the hearings. Unfortunately, thats the nature of these things, we cant plan a specific time or day, its when ever the get to our bills, so we will have to be ready. The meetings are held in the capitol building in Madison, an I will try to post again to let you know when the meetings will be. If you can, plan on being available at a moments notice.

Feel free to contact me or our club Liaison officer if you want further info or would like to contribute to the cause.

Gene Scullion Jim Klein
President, Four Lakes Metal Detector Club FLMDC Legislative Liaison
Madison, WI jimklein@charter.net

608-213-6622 608-884-8303
badgermd@tds.net

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Family Maps of Hinds County, Mississippi, Deluxe Edition - Grab it through Amazon!

[lokkenpa]

That's awesome news Gene... Please keep us informed. Thanks for all that you have been doing for our hobby and our rights!

Phil

 

[Steve0]

Thanks for the Update Gene, I will keep a eye out for new information
Steve

 

[Nickles]

Thank you for the update. I will plan on being there.

 

[Bumpstick]

Any new news?

 

[Bum Luck]

Legislature now not in session for the summer, no laws being passed.

 

[Bumpstick]

New Governor; New Year; New DNR

 

[Kenosha Kid]

New Governor; New Year; New DNR

Do we have a working link to the bills pending? These come up as "Unable to load file" :

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,281496.0.html

The WI State Legislature page doesn't even list 2010 sessions...

http://legis.wisconsin.gov/

So far, I'm not impressed by Walker; hopefully, he can change my attitude towards him and WI can get something done on this issue? At least a "no" would mean something was debated...

 

[fibberjibber]

Ok, here's a question... Since Walker took over the Governorship (yea for us!!!), then I would think that would mean a changing of the whole guard including the folks in charge at the DNR. Considering that Walker wants to have governor approval of all rule changes in the state AND review all the recent rule changes to potentially reverse some of them, in this transition time are the rules not likely to be enforced? I would like to hear some opinion on this one because I really want to hit a few sites on the lakes this spring.
Eric

 

[Bubba707]

Going by the past, the WI DNR will enforce the rules to the max unless and until they are recinded. We have an old saying here, DNR means Darned Near Russia. In this State Govt has gradually been taking over as much land as it can, not through ownership but by granting one agency or another "control" of it. That includes declaring near every puddle a wetland or an endangered habitat. In most cases it leaves the property owner stuck paying taxes on land he's forbidden to do anything with. Bear in mind that these regulations do not go through the legislature or the Governor, they are regulations created by unelected bureacrats within the State agencies. Frankly, I doubt Walker is going to pay them any attention.

 

[fibberjibber]

Well, I hope you are wrong about Walker. I know he made reviewing the arbitrary rules dictate by the state agencies in recent years a touchstone in his campaign. I also have an inside into Walker via a relative who knows him personally and worked on all his campaigns; I have every confidence it is a coming change soon. I think, however, we will have to collectively push the issue again to make sure he notices this particular rule. I will also add that I contacted the 'esteemed' state archaeologist to ask him about this rule. In several email exchanges with him he made several very interesting statements. Probably the most curious one is that he had no idea what, if any, fine or other punishment is enforced for not following the rule. It could be that this is why I have not yet heard of any officer fining, arresting, or otherwise detaining any MDer caught on state property. In fact, several people have remarked that they have been spotted by law enforcement but not bothered by them. Strange, but interesting...
-e

 

[Bubba707]

I kinda suspect Walker is about to be up to his ears in labor problems with State employees for some time. He made a priority of cutting State paid benefits and eliminating collective bargaining on the issue as well as cutting agency budgets so I think we can look forward to the National Guard manning State offices in the near future. As for the State archy, he needs to go. I've seen the results of his work. Someone finds something and reports it. His people swoop in, confiscate everything in sight and fine the crap out of the finder. They never get out to do real work on any sights, just let em rot.Wisconsin would be better off without that department as it is.

 

[Bum Luck]

Well, this particular DNR administrative rule was initiated and championed by the DNR archaeologist, Mark Dudzik.

Now, you may be asking yourself about now, "Just how many archaeologists does the State of Wisconsin need?"

Good question, and let me answer it with another question:

Do we need one that makes his own rules, outside of laws made by the Legislature, for the rest of us common, untutored citizens to follow?

 

[Bubba707]

Most everything they get their grubby little paws on goes into boxes and gets hid in the basement of the State museum among other places never to be seen again. And they claim we're stealing our heritage. Dudzik is a recent appointee who just happens to agree with the position of the Office of the State Archaeologist that our history and heritage belongs to the Govt and not the people. They claim to preserve things for the people of Wisconsin yet say it's better to rot in the ground than to be found by the public. I hope Walker will do something about those nutcases and I'll write and suggest it, but I'm not going to hold my breath. I expect it to get worse.

 

[fibberjibber]

Mark is the one who replied to me that he has no idea what the penalty would be, if any, for violating the rule. Our approach to this problem should be at least two-pronged. I think that the various clubs in this state should once again put together one finely constructed, legal letter outlining rational reasons why this particular rule should be overturned and the old, sensible policy put back in its place. Then, each and every MDer - belonging to a club or not - should write two of their own letters and address one to their local congressman and one to Governor Walker. I know a few things about the inner workings of government and we need a flood of letters to multiple fronts. Everyone, however, should be cautioned to make their individual letters carefully. Irrational or angry ones will be automatically thrown out and possibly used against us as a representation of how nuts MDers are. I think we have a good chance at winning this one.

I am coming from a different point of view, and this part is directed at Bubba and anyone else who has similar opinions in particular. I grew up inquisitive and a collector. That love of history led me to even reenacting Civil War for a time where I learned quite a bit from spending scores of hours behind the scenes in libraries, museums, and personal collections across the eastern US. I will be returning to the U of Minnesota this fall to finish my double major in geography and anthropology then on to earn my PhD in Environmental Archaeology. I have always been interested in MDing and last summer came across a nice, older Garrett with a price I couldn't refuse. I disagree with much of what Bubba said about archaeologists, and will gladly have a debate with anyone over a beer on this matter- so long as you are buying It is also true that many archaeologists have a poor idea of what it is that MDers do too. I am hoping to bridge that gap to straighten everyone out as I go on to teach at university, conduct archaeological excavations, and MD.

But this just illustrates what I was saying earlier about writing letters. We have to leave those illusions at the door or we will not get in. I guarantee that Walker will have a bunch of PhD-clad snoots in his ear showing the quality of museum displays, the untold volumes of research from excavations that have yielded new, truer histories of ourselves, and how that money train works. If all we have is 'they want it for themselves' then we have already lost. They can easily show otherwise. They do have some weak spots though, and I will be happy to share those to help out our cause.

One last thing to throw out there... I think we could develop a community between MDers and Dirt Diggers that could benefit both parties AND do some nice things to get the public involved too. I have a couple ideas.

Lets keep this conversation going and nurture it so we can really get this done!
-e

 

[fibberjibber]

Oh, and Bubba- I hope you dont think I am attacking you! I think you hit it on the head on one or two things.

 

[Bubba707]

fibber, no problem, I didn't take it as an attack. Just to clear it up some, I wasn't referring to ALL archaeologists, just the appointees working in a regulatory capacity in Madison. I do know once they have their people clear a site the results never see the light of day. They get cataloged and put in storage and the public nevers sees the stuff. Then they have the gall to accuse US of stealing OUR heritage and declaring it's better for the stuff to rot away in the ground than for us amateurs to find it. The last DNR archy had common sense and wouldn't play ball with the Historical Society State Archy. The new guy at the DNR is another bureacrat that has nothing but contempt for us and the public in general and was pushed for the job by the Historical Society and State archy for political purposes.

 

[fibberjibber]

Bubba-
I agree completely. You should see the stuff I have seen. To make it even funnier (or frustrating), I have come across things in a couple museums that the curator didnt even know was there. You have to understand though that there simply aren't enough funds to keep up with all the donations and other acquisitions. Universities are worse. Every place I have been- from the Smithsonian to the Wisconsin Vets Museum- they do try their best. Even rotating displays costs a ton of money. And curators do keep things close to the vest, often for good reason. More on that another time but suffice to say that there is enough stuff to do research for the next thousand years. No kidding.

I really do believe we can work together, we just have to find the right MDers and Diggers to get it started. That kind of collaboration would effectively eliminate any future restrictions on MDers if it can be shown that we have the same passion and respect as university researchers.

But we have to get it started in Madison first....

 

[watercolor]

Most everything they get their grubby little paws on goes into boxes and gets hid in the basement of the State museum among other places never to be seen again. And they claim we're stealing our heritage. Dudzik is a recent appointee who just happens to agree with the position of the Office of the State Archaeologist that our history and heritage belongs to the Govt and not the people. They claim to preserve things for the people of Wisconsin yet say it's better to rot in the ground than to be found by the public. I hope Walker will do something about those nutcases and I'll write and suggest it, but I'm not going to hold my breath. I expect it to get worse.

So that's where the Copper Culture celt I donated to the State Museum went. . . I was hoping it would go on display
in Madison. . . or at least be transfered the local DNR trail head museum. . . about 2-miles from where I recovered it.

 

[fibberjibber]

Watercolor, just put a query in to the agency you donated it to. They should be able to track it and let you know the status. Tell them you were wondering if there was any research done on it like dating or such. I know there are a bunch of museums that would love to have one of those on display!
-e