WALTZ SIGHTINGS

[393stroker]

It`s been told that some cowboy named Robles witnessed Waltz going up the canyon on the north side of Coffee Flat Mountain. So why would he waste his efforts to go there if he knew the mine was somewhere else? Maybe it was easier to go up the north side then come down on the south side where there is an area that has a square rock, you can see 4 Peaks and Weavers Needle just like the doodle but backwards. Does anybody know of a way to get up there or a link to some photos from up there. I`m planning on trying to get up there in the future. I want to explore that area and check out the heart shape to see if it`s man made or natural. Who was Robles? =Robe less

 

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[Al D]

It`s been told that some cowboy named Robles witnessed Waltz going up the canyon on the north side of Coffee Flat Mountain. So why would he waste his efforts to go there if he knew the mine was somewhere else? Maybe it was easier to go up the north side then come down on the south side where there is an area that has a square rock, you can see 4 Peaks and Weavers Needle just like the doodle but backwards. Does anybody know of a way to get up there or a link to some photos from up there. I`m planning on trying to get up there in the future. I want to explore that area and check out the heart shape to see if it`s man made or natural. Who was Robles? =Robe less

That route was one of the few which were usable by horses or mules leading into the heart of the mountains, many of the routes we know today did not exist in Waltz’s time, the park service has done a lot of work to open up trails by removing boulders and making the trails safer.

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Chuck,



This is the canyon Waltz is referred to going up on the North side of Coffee Flat Mountain (near the red number 14). Picacho Peak is the highest point on Coffee Flat.

Yes you can get all the way to the top of Picacho Peak using that canyon but it is very rough, there is no trail and you cannot get horses up it. Someone might be able to get a burro or a mule up there today but would be difficult. I had a mining claim up in that canyon in 1982. The Harnish brothers had blanket claimed the entire lower part of the canyon and down into LaBarge. The canyon is known to old timers as Coffee Flat canyon.

To my knowledge Gabriel Robles, a cowboy from the Florence AZ area told this story about Waltz. He got the story from his father, also a cowboy, who allegedly knew Waltz. Gabriel Robles was one of the men who searched for the missing Adolph Ruth with Tex Barkley and Jeff Adams.

Matthew

 

[Al D]

As I recall, Bob Ward made some discoveries along that route up on top of coffee flat.

 

[Hal Croves]

Chuck,

View attachment 1743762

This is the canyon Waltz is referred to going up on the North side of Coffee Flat Mountain (near the red number 14). Picacho Peak is the highest point on Coffee Flat.

Yes you can get all the way to the top of Picacho Peak using that canyon but it is very rough, there is no trail and you cannot get horses up it. Someone might be able to get a burro or a mule up there today but would be difficult. I had a mining claim up in that canyon in 1982. The Harnish brothers had blanket claimed the entire lower part of the canyon and down into LaBarge. The canyon is known to old timers as Coffee Flat canyon.

To my knowledge Gabriel Robles, a cowboy from the Florence AZ area told this story about Waltz. He got the story from his father, also a cowboy, who allegedly knew Waltz. Gabriel Robles was one of the men who searched for the missing Adolph Ruth with Tex Barkley and Jeff Adams.

Matthew

Plenty here to support the idea of Gabriel Robles being a cattleman.
But if you exclude the first name, there are lots of other Robles making local news, not all positive.

https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/...FilterType=yearRange&rows=20&searchType=basic


This should be the correct Gabriel Robles based on dates.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25470804/gabriel-robles

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Plenty here to support the idea of Gabriel Robles being a cattleman.
But if you exclude the first name, there are lots of other Robles making local news, not all positive.

https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/...FilterType=yearRange&rows=20&searchType=basic


This should be the correct Gabriel Robles based on dates.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25470804/gabriel-robles

Yes that is the Gabriel Robles family. I understand they were an old family from the first days of Florence, Arizona.
Gabriel Robles is the man in the center of the photo.

Bob Ward did some work in this canyon with little luck. The Harnish brothers got some placer from the lower canyon. There are some very interesting things further up that canyon.

 

[Matthew Roberts]

This was the Harnish brothers camp in early 1981. They positioned their camp right at the point where Coffee Flat canyon flowed into LaBarge.
Hank Harnish is seen in the photo. The Harnish's had about a dozen claims in the lower part of Coffee Flat canyon and down into LaBarge. They had found a small amount of placer gold near the bottom of CF canyon.

The brothers were armed and tried to discourage anyone from getting anywhere near their claims. I had a claim higher up the canyon and the Harnish's didn't like me going and coming from my claim. It was impossible to get up that canyon without going through Harnish's camp, those were some wild times. The wilderness didn't take effect until January 1, 1984. After that the Forest Service came in and evicted the Harnish brothers and tore down their camp. My claim was high up and secluded and I only kept a small siwash camp up there and some of my things are still in it.

 

[Al D]

Yes that is the Gabriel Robles family. I understand they were an old family from the first days of Florence, Arizona.
Gabriel Robles is the man in the center of the photo.

Bob Ward did some work in this canyon with little luck. The Harnish brothers got some placer from the lower canyon. There are some very interesting things further up that canyon.

View attachment 1743779

Bob Ward claimed to have found a cactus with a triangle and cross carved into it, if that is true, (big if, I know) then it would make sense that it would be an extension of the cross carved cactus that was on peralta road ending with the one that was in marsh valley, marking out a viable route into the superstition mountains, suitable for pack animals.

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Bob Ward claimed to have found a cactus with a triangle and cross carved into it, if that is true, (big if, I know) then it would make sense that it would be an extension of the cross carved cactus that was on peralta road ending with the one that was in marsh valley, marking out a viable route into the superstition mountains, suitable for pack animals.

I'm not 100% certain but I believe this is the cross found near Marsh Valley. I didn't know Ward had found a cactus with a triangle and a cross both carved into it.

 

[Al D]

I'm not 100% certain but I believe this is the cross found near Marsh Valley. I didn't know Ward had found a cactus with a triangle and a cross both carved into it.

View attachment 1743801

He claimed to have in his book, “Ripples of Lost Echos”

 

[393stroker]

This is the area I want to explore once it cools down and after a good rain.

 

[Matthew Roberts]

This is the area I want to explore once it cools down and after a good rain. View attachment 1743808

Chuck,

The canyon Waltz allegedly went up on the north side of coffee flat mountain is definitely the canyon on the topo map.

Would you orientate your areas marked to that canyon ?

 

[Hal Croves]

View attachment 1743785

This was the Harnish brothers camp in early 1981. They positioned their camp right at the point where Coffee Flat canyon flowed into LaBarge.
Hank Harnish is seen in the photo. The Harnish's had about a dozen claims in the lower part of Coffee Flat canyon and down into LaBarge. They had found a small amount of placer gold near the bottom of CF canyon.

The brothers were armed and tried to discourage anyone from getting anywhere near their claims. I had a claim higher up the canyon and the Harnish's didn't like me going and coming from my claim. It was impossible to get up that canyon without going through Harnish's camp, those were some wild times. The wilderness didn't take effect until January 1, 1984. After that the Forest Service came in and evicted the Harnish brothers and tore down their camp. My claim was high up and secluded and I only kept a small siwash camp up there and some of my things are still in it.

I'm not 100% certain but I believe this is the cross found near Marsh Valley. I didn't know Ward had found a cactus with a triangle and a cross both carved into it.

View attachment 1743801

If Ward did indeed find a carved triangle, what in your opinion would that particular shape mean to you, based on your experience and understanding of related history?

 

[393stroker]

I `ll try to go up this way. IDK

 

[Matthew Roberts]

If Ward did indeed find a carved triangle, what in your opinion would that particular shape mean to you, based on your experience and understanding of related history?

I really don't know what to make of the carved crosses and triangle in the saguaros. I only saw one cross in a saguaro and it was very old. I never saw the triangle one Ward talked about. The crosses I believe would have been Jesuit or Fransiscan and the triangle I do not know. All the crosses and triangle in the saguaro are gone today.

 

[Carl995]

View attachment 1743916

 

[Matthew Roberts]

View attachment 1743916

What is this ?

 

[Carl995]

What is this ?

you all were talking about carved crosses so I thought i'd post a pic.
saguaro with a cross carved in it.

 

[markmar]

This is the area I want to explore once it cools down and after a good rain. View attachment 1743808

You will be almost 2,5 miles from the JJ Polka gold mine.

 

[Loke]

Chuck,

View attachment 1743762

This is the canyon Waltz is referred to going up on the North side of Coffee Flat Mountain (near the red number 14). Picacho Peak is the highest point on Coffee Flat.

Yes you can get all the way to the top of Picacho Peak using that canyon but it is very rough, there is no trail and you cannot get horses up it. Someone might be able to get a burro or a mule up there today but would be difficult. I had a mining claim up in that canyon in 1982. The Harnish brothers had blanket claimed the entire lower part of the canyon and down into LaBarge. The canyon is known to old timers as Coffee Flat canyon.

To my knowledge Gabriel Robles, a cowboy from the Florence AZ area told this story about Waltz. He got the story from his father, also a cowboy, who allegedly knew Waltz. Gabriel Robles was one of the men who searched for the missing Adolph Ruth with Tex Barkley and Jeff Adams.

Matthew

Hmmm - we seem to be getting closer to Wagoner's ledge ...