What do You Think a Worn but Documented 17C Genuine "Piece of Eight" is Worth?

[capt dom]

What do You Think a Worn but Documented 17C Genuine "Piece of Eight" is Worth?

I think I have a fair question to ask:

To all of you who follow this shipwreck coin post.
Given that silver bullion is now pushing $30.00 an
ounce, what do you think a fair price to ask for
a genuine silver 17th century "piece of eight" with
proper documentation from its founders?

 

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[Au_Dreamers]

Re: What do You Think a Worn but Documented 17C Genuine "Piece of Eight" is Worth?

Dom,
I really don't believe that bullion price has much of an effect on shipwreck coins.

They are looked at totally different by the "people of interest." I know you know why...

About a decade or so ago my Dad took me to his gold hunting club in Vegas so I could show off the treasure he had been telling them about for a few years.

You would think treasure hunters are treasure hunters, but not so much. When I showed them an 8 Escudo they asked about its value.

When I told them about $5,000, 3 guys simultaneously said WOW 18 times spot!!

So if silver is 6 times 1999 prices would our coins be worth 6 times their 1999 prices?
I think it’s the same structure of pricing today as it was back in 1999 and any other time in history, provenance, rarity and availability. Last but not least, the most important criteria of selling anything is it’s only “worth” what someone is willing to pay for it.

In my honest opinion.

Oddly I found this post as I am thinking of selling some 4 reales and was looking for some current values.

 

[cuzcosquirrel]

Re: What do You Think a Worn but Documented 17C Genuine "Piece of Eight" is Worth?

4 Reals, anywhere from 50 bucks to maybe 250. If it was a cetain mint, rare issue, has some irregularity, or is a highly legible cob, it could be worth more.

I don't think silver prices affect cobs prices that much. I would think if anything, really poor cob specimins or silver chunks/bars might get sold along for scrap at times like this.

I think cob buyers are looking for certain things when they buy them, or at least when they buy their second or third one. Probably for the first one, they either want a really legible cross, the obverse pillar and waves side, the shield obverse side less so, or that it came from a certain shipwreck or seller.

When I bought my latest cob it was: bought from a specific seller, bought specific issue with lots of history, it has legible details of that issue, good shape, good size, very slight corrosion.

 

[Au_Dreamers]

Re: What do You Think a Worn but Documented 17C Genuine "Piece of Eight" is Worth?

Yeah isn't it funny that they want a good looking cross side?

 

[Mackaydon]

Re: What do You Think a Worn but Documented 17C Genuine "Piece of Eight" is Worth?

At $30 per ounce for silver, that fact, by itself, flies under the radar in the evaluation of an 8-R cob.
And a Cert. from a relatively unknown wreck is worth little more than the Cert. itself--though effective 'spin' helps.
Stay with rarity, full weight AND good quality for appreciable value.

Don.....

 

[capt dom]

Re: What do You Think a Worn but Documented 17C Genuine "Piece of Eight" is Worth?

One of the problems with "full weight" is many sea salvage
coins loose some of their weight in alloy loss from electro-galvanic
action of two dissimilar metals being immersed in a salt water solution
over extended period of time. I most certainly agree a full weight
coin is better than an off weight specimen but detail
is equally important.
Example: One may have a full weight specimen struck with miserable
dies and planchets:
Result: Full weight coin with little detail

 

[Au_Dreamers]

Re: What do You Think a Worn but Documented 17C Genuine "Piece of Eight" is Worth?

4 Reals, anywhere from 50 bucks to maybe 250. If it was a cetain mint, rare issue, has some irregularity, or is a highly legible cob, it could be worth more.

Would you say that value is true for a 17xx 4 reale?
If so then I would have to say that it's the same value as 12 years ago when silver was $5.30 an ounce.

So it seems as if our opinions concur....

Right Don, also a cert from a well-known wreck and a well-known "authenticator" can pump the value.


I remember being at a nautical flea market years back and this guy had a very juicy Lima 8 and an attractive price. But something didn’t look right. He also had no cert… Claimed it as a beach find.
I had made a comment about its authenticity and showed him my coin on my necklace-that had been under my shirt.

He quipped “how do you know your coin is real” trying to get me back for questioning his. I simply replied, “Because I brought mine off the bottom of the ocean.

 

[dagfoto]

Re: What do You Think a Worn but Documented 17C Genuine "Piece of Eight" is Worth?

full attribution helps ; so definately Worth more than the Gold or silver if correctly documentated.

 

[capt dom]

Re: What do You Think a Worn but Documented 17C Genuine "Piece of Eight" is Worth?

Anyone see what silver is pushing now on the spot metal
pricing sheets....

By the end of the year with the middle east turning itself up side down
it will probably be pushing $60.00 to $75.00 an ounce!

Hang on to those greenies and razor blades folks!

This is why I call them "Genuine Specimens Ravaged by Time and the Sea"!

I also call them "magic beans"

 

[bootybay]

Re: What do You Think a Worn but Documented 17C Genuine "Piece of Eight" is Worth?

I would like to know what a fair price would be.. its something I always wanted to either find..or buy a genuine one, that I dont have to sell my first born to get it...

 

[Mackaydon]

Re: What do You Think a Worn but Documented 17C Genuine "Piece of Eight" is Worth?

Booty:
A fair price could only be determined after first knowing the specific coin's condition, mint, assayer, weight and demand (comps).
Don..

 

[bootybay]

Re: What do You Think a Worn but Documented 17C Genuine "Piece of Eight" is Worth?

one day I will either find me a cob ( 8 reales I have but are too big to wear) but for some reason, I am so fascinated by the cobs. thank you for your response thou too Mack

 

[NHBandit]

Re: What do You Think a Worn but Documented 17C Genuine "Piece of Eight" is Worth?

Just watched the video and I have to ask. Does it hurt the value of those cobs that you drilled holes in them to make them into pendants or is there a point where the wear from being under the sea for so long makes it not matter ? What do the other experts say ? It's a legitimate question since any holes in a US collectible coin drastically reduces the value no matter what the condition. Thanks and HH

 

[Mackaydon]

Re: What do You Think a Worn but Documented 17C Genuine "Piece of Eight" is Worth?

I just watched the video because I couldn't believe that Capt. Dom would 'hole' a coin to put into a pendannt. I understood him to say that sailors of the day, not Capt. Dom, would hole these coins for specific purposes. Actually, I can't think of any reason that makes sense to 'hole' a real cob, though, as the Captain mentioned, an originally 'holed' coin may enhance the marketing pitch--and that's a good thing.
Don...

 

[NHBandit]

Re: What do You Think a Worn but Documented 17C Genuine "Piece of Eight" is Worth?

I just watched the video because I couldn't believe that Capt. Dom would 'hole' a coin to put into a pendannt. I understood him to say that sailors of the day, not Capt. Dom, would hole these coins for specific purposes. Actually, I can't think of any reason that makes sense to 'hole' a real cob, though, as the Captain mentioned, an originally 'holed' coin may enhance the marketing pitch--and that's a good thing.
Don...

That's why I asked. It seems a bit of a coincidence that all those cobs for sale were found with holes already in them ?

 

[Mackaydon]

Re: What do You Think a Worn but Documented 17C Genuine "Piece of Eight" is Worth?

If all the cobs for sale were holed, I believe that result is due more to specific selection by the seller than by coincidence in the finds.

 

[NHBandit]

Re: What do You Think a Worn but Documented 17C Genuine "Piece of Eight" is Worth?

If all the cobs for sale were holed, I believe that result is due more to specific selection by the seller than by coincidence in the finds.

 

[capt dom]

Re: What do You Think a Worn but Documented 17C Genuine "Piece of Eight" is Worth?

I will try and answer the "holed" questions fairly
and accurately.

It is a miss-guided concept - classical archeologists try to enforce - that all "artifacts" especially those
recovered from the sea are sacrosanct or should otherwise be "untouchable" by the average "joe'.

It is said that the minting of coins is the second oldest profession. There are plenty of "coins"
out there folks. When a major mid 17th century shipwreck - returning to the old world is discovered
there is a pretty good chance one is going to find a good number of coins.

And guys and girls - I have a good number of coins as I have never wholesaled any!
But, some of them look like the surface of the moon with barely a trace of markings left...

Even Allen Craig has attested in his books the State of Florida has in its possession a high quality sampling
of the Jupiter Shipwreck recovered coin assemblage thus far - as they have been able under our agreement
to take the best and most unique of our recovered, and yet to be discovered coins, to protect the "public interest".

The rest of the specimens are then divided to the company, who divides them to help cover the continuing
cost of operations and to satisfy stockholder interests.

Most of these specimens - having been tumbling around in a surf zone for now 350 years - are worn
or subject to electro-galvanic corrosion and have lost considerable weight. To your professional numismatist
who is worried about "cabinet scratches" - many of our divided specimens - after the state has cherry picked the lot -
have little numismatic value.

But never-the-less many folks want a shipwreck coin specimen and don't particularly give a crap
about a little or a lot of wear - especially if it fits their budget and is the real macoy!

If they want to wear the coin and they can not afford an expensive
gold or silver wrap - who gives a flying crap if a small hole is drilled through
the coin so they may wear it

Remember, if they are willing to pay for it - it is theirs...
They can melt it is they choose.

I don't think anyone should think they will be denied entrance
at the "pearly gates" or damned to eternal fire for holing a coin.

The good to great specimens - with proper documentation - don't
need to be set as jewelry or and NGC slab! They sell themselves in
a little plastic flip flop wrapper - so their owner can actually touch
and feel the passion of the event and ownership.

And I will add, at better prices than what one can buy them for at
treasure auctions. I saw one of my documented coins in the up
coming Sedwick auction with a starting bid of $150.00...
I will buy it at that price as I think it is worth 3 times that!

 

[NHBandit]

Re: What do You Think a Worn but Documented 17C Genuine "Piece of Eight" is Worth?

Thanks for the clarification Capt. I wondered if the same rules apply to severely worn shipwreck coins as for collectible US coins and you gave an honest answer. Being a long time collector of US coins I was curious how you felt about it as well as some of the other "experts". In the world of collectible US coins to give an example, if I had a badly worn but still identifyable 1877 Indian cent it would still be worth a considerable amount of money because of it's rarity. If I drilled a hole in it I would be hung from the nearest tree by my fellow collectors. Obviously those are ALOT more rare than the shipwreck coins you have. I wish I could afford to own some but my current budget dosn't allow it. My one and only shipwreck coin is an 1802 8 Real that was recovered from the 1806 wreck of the Lady Burgess. Condition is amazing and it came with certification from Sedwick. Bought late one night on Ebay a few years ago for 35 bucks while evidently the rest of the world was sound asleep..

 

[realeswatcher]

Re: What do You Think a Worn but Documented 17C Genuine "Piece of Eight" is Worth?

Capt. Dom, I think you kind of said it without directly saying it... But just to be clear, you're saying that you guys do drill some pieces to be worn as jewelry? I'm a coin person that happens to collect these... That said, I don't have a huge problem with this, so long as we're talking about lower-end pieces in terms of condition/rarity. I understand that it's a way to maximize what the pieces that won't necessarily appeal to the coin community will bring. Certainly no worse, from a coin collector's perspective, than the Atocha people polishing the heck out of their pieces... which was done across the board to MANY pieces that shouldn't have been touched from a numismatic preservation standpoint.

The only thing I will say is that once someone decides to sell (e.g., on eBay), a holed piece may be a bit less desirable to the potential buyers who are "coin people"... but that's after the fact.

As you said, the nicer pieces you guys find will sell themselves "as is"... generally to the coin people.

I will try and answer the "holed" questions fairly and accurately.

It is a miss-guided concept - classical archeologists try to enforce - that all "artifacts" especially those recovered from the sea are sacrosanct or should otherwise be "untouchable" by the average "joe'. .............. If they want to wear the coin and they can not afford an expensive gold or silver wrap - who gives a flying crap if a small hole is drilled through the coin so they may wear it .............. I don't think anyone should think they will be denied entrance at the "pearly gates" or damned to eternal fire for holing a coin.