Where did the Aztecs come from?

[piegrande]

There has been controversy about the origin of the Aztecs. Oral tradition said they left the lake where they once lived, something about other tribes being angry at their primitive heart surgery, heh, heh. Suggestions have included Utah and other places. Recently, the Mexicans themselves have said, near Guadalajara in Jalisco.

In 2020, my wife and I did an ancestral DNA test. 23andme (this is not a recommendation, this is just the one we used) shows places where in ancient times your ancestors lived. I was looking at the results, and thought, hey, that would be nice. Too bad we don't know any people of Aztec ancestry; we could test them and find out their origin.

One day, it came over me. Idiot!!! My wife is Aztec ancestry, mixed of course with Spanish, and I have her report on my desk! I had to laugh at my own stupidity. We live on property once owned by Moctezuma II, known to the Spanish as Montezuma.

Yes, they came from near Guadalajara. Probably over by the ocean not far away.

 

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[piegrande]

I want to repeat something I have posted before. I studied this issue over more than 30 years, reading not just treasure books, but when possible, the Aztec writings and Cortes letters to the King of Spain, as well as talking to the descendants of Moctezuma II in this village.

I make no secret in my belief the treasure of Moctezuma II is here. I also have solid reasons to believe there was more than one treasure. Each emperor may have had his own. MII inherited much of his from his grandfather, via his father who was not an Emperor. So, I think some who think they are chasing the treasure of Montezuma (MII) are actually chasing the treasure of previous Emperors. So, different legends may be true, just not the same treasure.

 

[pepperj]

Have heard from different sources (programs/podcasts) that these ancestral DNA tests have to be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[traveller777]

Have heard from different sources (programs/podcasts) that these ancestral DNA tests have to be taken with a grain of salt.

a lump of salt.

 

[piegrande]

I have spent a lot of time on DNA ancestral testing, probably starting maybe 20 years ago. Back then they could only tell you about the Y-markers on male data, and if I plugged in my own data, and did it the second time it would tell me the two were probably related within the last couple hundred years.

Then, they came out with data for women, passed from mother to daughter, again almost no usable data came from it.

Then, finally, they came out with something that is actually usable. It might not be perfect. For example, a great-grandson known very well was labeled as a distant cousin. But, that is only one error out of 1500 kinfolk identified.

So, now while it is not perfect, it is nearly so.

I suspect those who talk about salt have actually not used it.

 

[piegrande]

My daughter is around 54. When she was a little girl, a high school student in our rural city was found murdered at a local shopping center. A few years ago, using ancestral data they found the man who did it. I would say that is not consistent with talks of salt.

 

[piegrande]

I am finding many kin folk via ancestral ADN, and in most cases manage to find paper trails to match. So, in my opinion, those who say it doesn't work very good have never used it. Is it possible to have an occasional error? Yes, but when it calls out a third cousin with a different surname, perfectly, I do think those who say this have not used current ancestral DNA technology. My brother's grandson is shown as my first cousin or something like that, but out of 1500 kinfolk listed that is the only known error so far. Assuming it is an error. Standard excuse when something unexpected is found is to blame the test. Am I saying i think this kid involves a paternity error? No, but it is possible when one examines the involved parties.

Every week there is another cold murder case of decades age, solved by Ancestral DNA technology.

 

[mdog]

There has been controversy about the origin of the Aztecs. Oral tradition said they left the lake where they once lived, something about other tribes being angry at their primitive heart surgery, heh, heh. Suggestions have included Utah and other places. Recently, the Mexicans themselves have said, near Guadalajara in Jalisco.

In 2020, my wife and I did an ancestral DNA test. 23andme (this is not a recommendation, this is just the one we used) shows places where in ancient times your ancestors lived. I was looking at the results, and thought, hey, that would be nice. Too bad we don't know any people of Aztec ancestry; we could test them and find out their origin.

One day, it came over me. Idiot!!! My wife is Aztec ancestry, mixed of course with Spanish, and I have her report on my desk! I had to laugh at my own stupidity. We live on property once owned by Moctezuma II, known to the Spanish as Montezuma.

Yes, they came from near Guadalajara. Probably over by the ocean not far away.

Hi Piegrande. I have started reading about the Aztecs, so I know very little about them. You say that Guadalajara is not too far away, wouldn’t it have been easier for them to describe their homeland as being, maybe, six days journey to the ocean, or something like that? Also, do you know if the, far to the north part of it was a description that the Spanish came up with. Some of the white religious people who recorded Native American legends, up here in the States, would sometimes slip in their own ideas and pass it off as coming from the Indian tribal leaders. Thanks.

 

[piegrande]

Actually, the Aztecs had a sort of written language. Their scholars were drafted by the Spanish to be sort of secretaries for them once they learned Spanish. And, those secretaries stole paper and wrote things in the Aztec language, which have been kept, most in Europe, but some at the museum at Chapultepec. I think I read maybe 300 items in Aztec. The priests burned most Aztec books because they did not have the Pope's approval, the words nihil obstat and imprimatur on them. Seriously. Grr! Grr!

The Aztecs wandered around for many years after being driven from their lake home. So, it seems they did not exactly know where their home was. Mexican experts have decided it was north of Guadalajara. My wife's DNA shows it as being in the area of Guadalajara. But, there would be more hits in any big city.

Just before entering the Valley of Mexico the Aztecs stopped at Tula for maybe 20 years.

The one question I have about their lack of knowledge about their original home was, they allegedly had advance knowedge of Astronomy so why didn't they know by the stars?

I don't know how much you know about ancestral DNA, but apparently we all have at least one piece of DNA from each ancestor, though I am not totally sure of this. So, they have isolated common DNA strings for many places in the world, and if one of those strings is in your DNA they can tell one of your ancestors was probably in that area.

They also had educated intellectuals from Spain, many of them priests, who came and talked to the Aztecs intellectuals and wrote what they were told.

I do understand your concerns. But, much of what was written by both the Aztecs and Spanish still exists in library Polifoxiana (not sure of that name at this moment.) in Puebla They have large archives and only government authorized researchers are allowed to see those documents.

The natives in North America had no real books so there was no way to verify things.

Even though my opinion is different, you did bring up important issues

 

[piegrande]

Palafoxiana is correct spelling