Where did the gold go?

Red_desert

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Feb 21, 2008
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There is an indigenous tribe which owns land also. Interesting, the natives here look as light skinned as the Cherokee nation. Years ago, it was possible to meet with the chief by way of a primitive landing strip. Don Martin told me he did that once, had to wait for chief during an all-day ceremony. You make it through the tribal ritual, chief then will talk to you about permission to prospect for gold. I never could have guessed that Don was part Cherokee until his brother living on the Oklahoma reservation helped him get a card. Technically, Cherokee Nation OK is not a federal reservation because they own the land.

detained_brazilnatives-LG.jpg



"Para state, Brazil Munduruku Indian warriors stand guard over an illegal gold miner who was detained by a group of warriors searching out illegal gold mines and miners in their territory near the Caburua river, a tributary of the Tapajos and Amazon rivers in western Para state, on Jan. 20, 2014."
 

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Oceanscience

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May 23, 2010
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When we talk about gold in colonial times, we should probably start with the Fuggers.
Without the financing of the Fugger family, the kings would not have existed.
The richest man who ever lived : the life and times of Jacob Fugger​


164 reviews
Author:Greg Steinmetz (Author)
Summary:"In the days when Columbus sailed the ocean and Da Vinci painted the Mona Lisa, a German banker named Jacob Fugger became the richest man in history. Fugger lived in Germany at the turn of the sixteenth century, the grandson of a peasant. By the time he died, his fortune amounted to nearly two percent of European GDP. In an era when kings had unlimited power, Fugger dared to stare down heads of state and ask them to pay back their loans--with interest. It was this coolness and self-assurance, along with his inexhaustible ambition, that made him not only the richest man ever, but a force of history as well. Before Fugger came along it was illegal under church law to charge interest on loans, but he got the Pope to change that. He also helped trigger the Reformation and likely funded Magellan{u2019}s circumnavigation of the globe. His creation of a news service gave him an information edge over his rivals and customers and earned Fugger a footnote in the history of journalism. And he took Austria{u2019}s Habsburg family from being second-tier sovereigns to rulers of the first empire where the sun never set."--Provided by publisher
 

treasurediver

Full Member
Mar 13, 2005
176
263

When we talk about gold in colonial times, we should probably start with the Fuggers.

Without the financing of the Fugger family, the kings would not have existed.

The richest man who ever lived : the life and times of Jacob Fugger​


164 reviews
Author:Greg Steinmetz (Author)
Summary:"In the days when Columbus sailed the ocean and Da Vinci painted the Mona Lisa, a German banker named Jacob Fugger became the richest man in history. Fugger lived in Germany at the turn of the sixteenth century, the grandson of a peasant. By the time he died, his fortune amounted to nearly two percent of European GDP. In an era when kings had unlimited power, Fugger dared to stare down heads of state and ask them to pay back their loans--with interest. It was this coolness and self-assurance, along with his inexhaustible ambition, that made him not only the richest man ever, but a force of history as well. Before Fugger came along it was illegal under church law to charge interest on loans, but he got the Pope to change that. He also helped trigger the Reformation and likely funded Magellan{u2019}s circumnavigation of the globe. His creation of a news service gave him an information edge over his rivals and customers and earned Fugger a footnote in the history of journalism. And he took Austria{u2019}s Habsburg family from being second-tier sovereigns to rulers of the first empire where the sun never set."--Provided by publisher

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The Fugger family, historically a prominent group of European bankers, played a significant role in the fifteenth and sixteenth-century mercantile patriciate of Augsburg. They were international mercantile bankers, venture capitalists, and influential figures alongside the Welser family. During the sixteenth century, the Fuggers, along with the Welsers, controlled much of the European economy and amassed immense wealth. Their influence extended to the European copper market, where they held a near monopoly. Interestingly, they succeeded the Medici family, who had previously influenced Europe during the Renaissance. The Fuggers acquired many of the Medicis’ assets and political power, closely aligning themselves with the House of Habsburg, whose rise to global prominence they financially supported. Unlike other trading patricians in German free imperial cities, such as the Tuchers, the Fuggers remained loyal to the Roman Catholic Church and never converted to Lutheranism. Their unwavering allegiance kept them close to the Habsburg emperors1.

Jakob Fugger “the Rich”, a pivotal figure in the family, was elevated to the nobility of the Holy Roman Empire in May 1511. He assumed the title of Imperial Count of Kirchberg and Weissenhorn in 1514. Remarkably, Jakob Fugger is considered one of the wealthiest individuals in history, with a GDP-adjusted net worth exceeding $400 billion. At the time, this amounted to approximately 2% of Europe’s entire GDP. Although the Fugger company dissolved in 1657, the family retained substantial wealth as landowners and continued to rule over the County of Kirchberg and Weissenhorn. Additionally, the Babenhausen branch of the family became Princes of the Holy Roman Empire in 1803, while the Glött branch achieved princely status in Bavaria in 19141.

Now, let’s delve into the fascinating world of mercury. The Fuggers were not only bankers but also involved in mining. Their third mining center was established in Spain in 1525. Charles V, in repayment of his debt from the 1519 election, leased mines in Almadén, which boasted the largest deposits of mercury and cinnabar in Europe. Pure mercury mined in Castile and obtained through cinnabar roasting was shipped to the New World for smelting2. The Fuggers’ financial prowess extended beyond banking, encompassing resources from silver and mercury mines in Germany and later from the Spanish empire in South America3.

In summary, the Fuggers left an indelible mark on European history, not only as bankers but also as influential players in mining and commerce. Their legacy continues to resonate through the annals of time.

Learn more

1en.wikipedia.org2fuggerstrasse.eu3oxfordreference.com4britannica.com5en.wikipedia.org+2 more


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creatmosfairy

Jr. Member
Aug 29, 2008
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Where did the gold goes:

After the random of Rio de Janeiro in 1711, the french fleet of Duguay-Trourin looted the city for 5 days. Here in the city, they sacked the full production of one year of portugaise gold coins and many other considerable treasure. The coins estimated 4,000,000 pound.

two of this ships:
The Magnamine and the Fidele were later wrecked at January 29.,1712 off the Azores in deep water with all of the treasure. On board of the Magnamine alone were more than 600.000 Livres in gold and silver and other goods.

Many divers and salvage companies searched for the two wrecks, but today, no one have found any kind of evidence of the 2 ships.

Question: If this two ships a good target for a new salvage business plan and recovery operation in deep sea recovery?
 

marconi beach

Jr. Member
Jun 28, 2015
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Rhode Island
Detector(s) used
teknetics
Primary Interest:
Shipwrecks
Where did the gold goes:

After the random of Rio de Janeiro in 1711, the french fleet of Duguay-Trourin looted the city for 5 days. Here in the city, they sacked the full production of one year of portugaise gold coins and many other considerable treasure. The coins estimated 4,000,000 pound.

two of this ships:
The Magnamine and the Fidele were later wrecked at January 29.,1712 off the Azores in deep water with all of the treasure. On board of the Magnamine alone were more than 600.000 Livres in gold and silver and other goods.

Many divers and salvage companies searched for the two wrecks, but today, no one have found any kind of evidence of the 2 ships.

Question: If this two ships a good target for a new salvage business plan and recovery operation in deep sea recovery?
It is almost impossible to get a permit there or in mainland Portugal.
 

Tanneyhill

Full Member
Mar 5, 2023
102
118
This is before the Brazil gold rush but from CR Boxer, Portuguese Seaborne Empire, page 219

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Thats a lot of shipwrecks - as far as valuables go - outward bound full of silver and home bound gemstones, gold jewelry, porcelain and possibly also gold coinage or ingots.

The great mystery of Portuguese wrecks given lack of archives.
 

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