which 1715 wreck spots are which vessels --and why do you think so

[ivan salis]

ok I have long said due to documents that I have read that there are (8) 1715 fleet vessels sank in the fleet area * all 5 of Ubilla's fleet and the 2 major treasure ships and the dutch prize vessel known as "olandisa" / san Miguel---which upper deckworks sheared off and washed ashore and was used for shelter during salvage ops ---so which spot is which ship

1==cabin wreck
2==anchor wreck
3==cannon wreck
4==Corrigan's wreck
5==rio mar wreck
6==sandy point wreck
7==douglas beack wreck
8== s-32 wreck

I want you folks to post and for us to discuss the matter--- not just click to read others info --input a bit for petes sake

 

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[sphillips]

Come on folks, let’s get those educated opinions rolling!

 

[Magoopeter]

Is this 1715 fleet list correct?

Ubilla Vessels
1. Capitana - Nuestra Senora de la Regla - Cabin Wreck Site
2. Fleet Almirante - Santo Cristo de San Roman - Corrigan's Wreck Site
3. Soto Sanchez - Nuestra Senora de las Nieves - Douglas Beach Wreck or Gold Wreck or Colored Beach Site
4. Urca de Lima - The Santissima Trinidad y Nuestra Senora de la Concepcion - Wedge Wreck Site
5. La Marigalera

Echeverez Vessels
1. Capitana - Nuestra Senora del Carmen - Rio Mar Wreck Site
2. Almiranta - Nuestra Senora del Rosario - Sandy Point Wreck Site
3. Concepción - Nuestra Senora de la Concepcion
4. Olandesita - Nuestra Señora de La Popa - La Holandesa - Wreck Site
5. San Miguel - EL Senor San Miguelor as its more commanly referred to SR San Miguel
6. French Prize - El Cievro also known as La Galleria

 

[ARC]

IMO... Douglass wreck south of Pierce is mistakenly identified as the De Las Nieves.

 

[FloridaSon]

All I believe I know is from this article:Metal Detecting Florida's 1715 East Coast Treasure Wrecks Update: June 17, 2017 Assembled by: Lee Wiese
Metal Detecting Hobby Talk Page 3 of 90 Rev: P MDHTALK - Metal Detecting Hobby TalK Entry Page

There is a newer version out there.

And I read something about the early Florida salvage divers never had conclusive evidence but called the wrecks certain names based on the stuff they brought up, canons, etc. compared to Spanish ship inventory.



1715 Fleet Ships Believed to have been Found are:
1 - Nuestra Senora de la Regla - Cabin Wreck Site
2 - Santo Cristo de San Roman - Corrigan's Wreck Site
3 - Nuestra Senora del Carmen - Rio Mar Wreck Site
4 - Nuestra Señora de La Popa - La Holandesa Wreck Site
5 - Nuestra Senora del Rosario - Sandy Point Wreck Site
6 - Urca de Lima - Wedge Wreck Site - Note: This is a State Archaeology Site
7 - Nuestra Senora de las Nieves - Douglas Beach Wreck or Gold Wreck or Colored Beach Site
Ships of the 1715 Fleet Never Located are the:
8 - Maria Galante
9 - El Senor San Miguel a 22 cannon frigate (Possibly wrecked off Amelia Island, Florida) - See Appendix
10 - El Cievro also known as La Galleria (Possibly wrecked off Amelia Island, Florida)
11 - Nuestra Senora de la Concepcion - See Appendix
12 - Griffon made it safely and went on to France.

 

[Magoopeter]

IMO... Douglass wreck south of Pierce is mistakenly identified as the De Las Nieves.

Do you think it’s the Santa Rita y las Animas? some think this, what about the short names / Nick names for the ships do they match up?
There is a one that is not correct in my book, and I can’t think why it would be so far from were the camp was, when it was definitely located there, according to the Spanish accounts. Hard to follow the script with the many names of the ships, it also confusing as it seems some owner were not on the ships they owned?

 

[ARC]

The Santa Rita y las Animas... AKA... "la Marigaleta"...

Was purchased by Ubilla in Havana from her owner Felix Hurtado on the 15th of July 1715... obviously just prior to the fleet leaving port... her "maiden voyage" for Ubilla.

Hell of a first ride.

 

[Red_desert]

Where does Ubilla's golden flag ship the Hampton Court fit in?

 

[ARC]

Where does Ubilla's golden flag ship the Hampton Court fit in?

Well I can tell you it was first to go... hit reef first according to accounts.

 

[ARC]

Red... what is it you want to know about it ?

 

[ARC]

You do know it was an English ship.

Class and type: 70-gun third rate ship of the line
Tons burthen: 1,073 long tons (1,090.2 t)
Length: 150 ft 6 in (45.9 m) (gundeck)
Beam: 40 ft 4.5 in (12.3 m)
Depth of hold: 16 ft 11 in (5.2 m)
Propulsion: Sails
Sail plan: Full rigged ship
Armament: 70 guns of various weights of shot

--------------

Pre rebuild...

Class and type: 70-gun third rate ship of the line
Tons burthen: 1,105 long tons (1,122.7 t)
Length: 150 ft 6 in (45.9 m) (gundeck)
Beam: 39 ft 10 in (12.1 m)
Depth of hold: 17 ft (5.2 m)
Propulsion: Sails
Sail plan: Full rigged ship
Armament: 70 guns of various weights of shot

REBUILD was in 1701

Builder: John Shish, Deptford Dockyard
Launched: 1678
Captured: 1707

And of course... lost in 1715.

 

[Red_desert]

You do know it was an English ship.

Class and type: 70-gun third rate ship of the line
Tons burthen: 1,073 long tons (1,090.2 t)
Length: 150 ft 6 in (45.9 m) (gundeck)
Beam: 40 ft 4.5 in (12.3 m)
Depth of hold: 16 ft 11 in (5.2 m)
Propulsion: Sails
Sail plan: Full rigged ship
Armament: 70 guns of various weights of shot

Yes, had all that info in my old laptop but file some how got deleted. It lost mizzenmast and rudder. I'm thinking that Umbilla's cabin was in it. What I wanted to know was what lease name if found. If ship wasn't found yet that would be a good find for sure.

 

[ARC]

Well it hit first... and was said to have been crushed instantly like matchsticks... killing Ubilla and all on board.

"Disintegrated" on the reef.

 

[Red_desert]

Broke apart shortly before 3:00 AM dropping gold bars the contraband stuffed in spaces during last minutes before leaving.

 

[ARC]

I must add that all the names of the wrecks currently known should be taken with a grain of salt.

They were given to wreck sites by TH'rs in early days... particularly Weller.. according to what was found at each site ... assumptions were made and stuck.

Not one wreck that has been found has been positively identified.

 

[Red_desert]

That's so true. Guess for now we only can speculate about it.

 

[ARC]

For all that is really known... we know very little.

With that said... we alos do not know IF the Queens Jewels were not already salvaged... either by pirates or even just some fisherman.

I do know that Spanish accounts say that when they would return to the scene that several ships were always around trying to scavenge the visible wrecks.

Once word got around about the disaster people flocked from all reaches to the scene to try and get rich.

This lasted for several years... along with a few robberies of the encampments as well who knows what is what.

 

[Slingshot]

For all that is really known... we know very little.

With that said... we alos do not know IF the Queens Jewels were not already salvaged... either by pirates or even just some fisherman.

I do know that Spanish accounts say that when they would return to the scene that several ships were always around trying to scavenge the visible wrecks.

Once word got around about the disaster people flocked from all reaches to the scene to try and get rich.

This lasted for several years... along with a few robberies of the encampments as well who knows what is what.

The Ais Indians also got a large portion of the treasure.

 

[Red_desert]

Since the Hampton Court smashed to pieces, would hardly be a visible wreck. If it is true the Queen's jewels were secreted in Umbilla's cabin, then the jewels probably went down with Umbilla on the leading flag ship also.

 

[WaveJunky757]

I find it interesting after all the years of salvage not one single “ship” or “area” has been positively confirmed. Yes the way they exploded/disintegrated on the reefs makes this incredibly difficult, but you would think at least one could be confirmed .... or maybe no one wants to confirm it for legal reason etc... best to leave things “unknown”.. I am no expert but I feel A LOT more was salvaged than we realize. Just a gut feeling I have. Whether it be pirates old or modern, or if things “disappeared” or stolen from salvage camps, Indians etc. A lot of pirates flocked to the area for years, and it’s relatively shallow water, although tricky with the reefs/visibility. The beaches had to be absolutely littered with wreck material, some material very distinct to particular ships.