Which state?

[naturegirl]

I'm curious, which state has the most evidence of early inhabitants? Not that it's a contest or anything, it seems like the eastern part of the country has an awful lot, or is that just a reflection of membership and participation in this forum? Which state has the most oldest? Which state has the most diveristy that might reflect natural material, or traded material? I know our state boundries are brand new in the time-line, but since most members identify thier state, it made me curious.Anyone know?

naturegirl

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

hey cache...have you been in canyon de chelly? are those your photographs?

 

[Kentucky Kache]

hey cache...have you been in canyon de chelly? are those your photographs?

I found the pics on the net. I've never been, but I would love to go there.

 

[One mans trash...]

I really doesn't make much difference whether humans have been running around North America for 13,000 years or 16,000 years. North America is a difficult archeological situation. It's really hard to say much for certain about the actual cultures, the day to day life of ancient American peoples. The ways of people of historical times likely tell us little about the ancients. The Anasazi, for instance, could have had a rigid, totalitarian political structure, or they could have been rabid anarchists. We have no idea of the meanings of the symbols they carved into the rocks. We don't know if they were matriarchal or patriarchal or something else. We don't know if they moved out in an organized group or if they just drifted away in small groups. We don't know what happened to them, other than apparently settling for a while around the Rio Grande. Even our name for them is just a generic place holder. For that matter, we don't know much more about other North American prehistoric peoples.

The traces differ throughout the continent, and I think it often has more to do with what survives in the local environment than how early or how many people it represents. In the southwest, both the climate/soil conditions and the materials early people used leaves a lot to be found, and the earlier climate probably allowed people to do well without building much. And early trade routes can still be seen with satellite imaging. In the East, the materials don't survive well, so it's stone implements and mounds and probably the well-populated precursors to the later political and social structures. Not much to find in Central Texas, other than stone implements. The springs at San Marcos, Texas have been mentioned as perhaps the oldest continuously inhabited site in North America, but the climate doesn't do much for preservation, nor did it take much hard construction to live. You can well imagine even today that it was a paradise. Certainly, everyone who came after thought highly of it. The four corners states in the Southwest obviously had a bunch of people who left a LOT of stuff and structures, but I'll bet it was distinctly fewer than the Southeast where the resources probably supported large cities and were no doubt inhabited for a very long time. You just have to read what the first Europeans said about the abundant resources along the Atlantic to realize it had to be really attractive. Hard to say much for sure about any of it. The well worn trade routes in the Southwest speak to a lot of people. That sort of evidence wouldn't last long in the East.

Given the much wetter conditions in the past, most of the continent was highly habitable. So much of that was broken down before Europeans made it over, but there was clearly considerable trade over fairly long distances. The Southeastern societies had broken up (things happen), and the climate had changed in the Southwest. Probably some of the places where the living was pretty easy didn't leave much trace, simply because it didn't take much to live well.

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

"The Anasazi, for instance, could have had a rigid, totalitarian political structure, or they could have been rabid anarchists. We have no idea of the meanings "

to quote a hopi lady in a letter to the editor of the flagstaff daily sun " you people always ask..what happened to the Anasazi? we are up here, we left to get away from them" referring to the athabaskan.

total error here guy...anthropologist often seek knowledge from the hopi elders whenever they uncover an unidentified anasazi item.
and anthropologist do in fact discern the nature of lost societies from the remains...this is where marx came in handy..means of production, mode of production...control of resources...

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

cache...first time i entered the canyon, the "ruins" still had corn in the cribs and pottery in every room, sandles, tools..ect...
most is pilfered now...but..it is one of the most awe inspiring events one can do...
mesa verde, chaco canyon...canyon de chelly...americans thought natives were savages until the first military patrol found the ruins of buildings the americans could not build at the time...

i have a bit of prejudice in this topic...
these photos are sinagua ...poor cousins to the anasazi...

 

[jamey]

you guys are so interesting,thanks for the post naturegirl , jamey

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

ok..since you bring up the land bridge...beringia...the oldest sites found have been along the "migration paths"..which are not in the east...but the north west...
this information is bound to change, since the russian side of beringia has not been excavated, or studied in depth...the russians were busy with the cold war, and then the monetary situation has not been conducive to examinations.

 

[SoIll]

ok..since you bring up the land bridge...beringia...the oldest sites found have been along the "migration paths"..which are not in the east...but the north west...
this information is bound to change, since the russian side of beringia has not been excavated, or studied in depth...the russians were busy with the cold war, and then the monetary situation has not been conducive to examinations.

So you trust those dates?

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

not so much the dates, but the events...if you accept the land bridge theory, you must accept three migrations occurred....the dates are approximate...and every honest archie will admit to that.
the radio carbon test has been proven in error often...but...it is the best guess going...

that is why the archies are so protective about artifacts and sites...until technology catches up to our interest...no digging should occur...even by the archies...

 

[Tnmountains]

ok..since you bring up the land bridge...beringia...the oldest sites found have been along the "migration paths"..which are not in the east...but the north west...
this information is bound to change, since the russian side of beringia has not been excavated, or studied in depth...the russians were busy with the cold war, and then the monetary situation has not been conducive to examinations.

You are correct on the bridge and I removed my post as I was wrong and mis leading. I kept thinking north east was beringia not North west. Still the question is oldest and most state. Where would that be?
Thanks for the correction.
TnMtns

 

[PALEOMAN]

good question . wyoming has a high number of typy-sites for paleo. cody, hellgap, agate basin. i will not ponder nor argue where these early travelers came from. i do beleive they loved it here!!!

 

[Th3rty7]

I honestly don't think there is an indisputable answer to either of those two questions. It is very interesting / entertaining to speculate on the possibilities. Unfortunately you get into touchy areas of politics and theories that some aren't willing to accept. The pre clovis culture is controversial to the " Clovis first " group. It also suggests that european caucasians were actually the first to inhabit the new world.

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

that's why i am dancing here...lolol

panagea...

 

[Th3rty7]

that's why i am dancing here...lolol

panagea...

pangea theory makes alot of sense to me, I'm really surprised it's not brought up more, there's some connection along the 33° longitude line.

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

there is little to zero evidence to support the theory...yet...several myths seem universal...dragons and a world devastating flood.
mythology is creation stories...to give people a "place" in this huge universe...to give a basis for understanding their surroundings..

i find it curious...the simplest answer is often the correct one.
what if there was once 'one people', one continent...
there was a piece on pangea on tv the other night...they examined continental drift..estimated time the drift took to find us with the earth we live on...
so much science is speculation, and attempts to proof a theory...

i forget where i read it...perhaps a monk told me a story...the tibetans believe they once lived on a sea shore...and they did not move...the earth did.

 

[Th3rty7]

" so much science is speculation, and attempts to proof a theory...."


you said it there man, agreed 100%, occam's razor, the simplest explanation for multiple hypothesise is most likely the correct explanation.

 

[abarnard]

Hope all ya'll figure it out, seems like everyone has their own opinion and speculation. It must be tough.

 

[jeff a]

more artifacts are found in the east and midwest because it has been farmed longer,and it is more collector friendly, there are alot of artifacts in the great basin and desert region,but you dont see or hear about them too much because its not collector friendly out that way

 

[naturegirl]

thanks for the responses everyone, I'm getting a clearer picture in my mind of what we know about the history of this land. It really captures my imagination. I borrowed an Overstreets 10th edition, and the "cumberland story was very interesting, though now I need to re-read it 'cause I'm learning more all the time. There is such a feeling of wonderment at the history of the place where I'm standing when I'm out in the boonies somewhere. How old is this rock I'm standing on? How long has this creek been here? How many people stood on this bluff overlooking this valley? Is the connection I feel to the land, or the people? Who were they? In my fantasyland, the Native Americans will not be lost, we will have an American President of Native American descent. I hope to see that if my lifetime. I guess anytime you contemplate humans, it gets political, and spiritual, and all the people-stuff that goes with us. Wondering about these ancients, and needing to reconcile them with who we are today, seems to be occupying much of my mind, Which is really wandering around aimlessly! Thanks for the responses again,

naturegirl

 

[Kentucky Kache]

thanks for the responses everyone, I'm getting a clearer picture in my mind of what we know about the history of this land. It really captures my imagination. I borrowed an Overstreets 10th edition, and the "cumberland story was very interesting, though now I need to re-read it 'cause I'm learning more all the time. There is such a feeling of wonderment at the history of the place where I'm standing when I'm out in the boonies somewhere. How old is this rock I'm standing on? How long has this creek been here? How many people stood on this bluff overlooking this valley? Is the connection I feel to the land, or the people? Who were they? In my fantasyland, the Native Americans will not be lost, we will have an American President of Native American descent. I hope to see that if my lifetime. I guess anytime you contemplate humans, it gets political, and spiritual, and all the people-stuff that goes with us. Wondering about these ancients, and needing to reconcile them with who we are today, seems to be occupying much of my mind, Which is really wandering around aimlessly! Thanks for the responses again,

naturegirl

Who were these that lie at the woods edge among the
lonesome pines? Among these trees they lie in silence, as
the leaves, ever brown upon their graves. To these I look,
and say, who are you, that I should feel sorrow and sadness
of heart? Among you are thorns, upon you the weeds of
neglect and forgetfulness. Why are you not visited? Why
are you not mourned? People will come, people will see, but
they turn again and are gone. Why are these made desolate,
and are not mourned? Who are these who's silence calls to
me from within, and I turn aside to behold? I have not known
them, yet they have known Daniel Boone, and Simon Kenton.
These who came when no one inhabited the wilderness, and
none demanded tribute to pass this way. I have not known
them, yet they are my family, the parents from which I formed.
What shall I pay you, you that have walked here that I might
walk? Among you are memories. Among you is love.
Then I turn and walk to the woods edge, as I wonder, Who am
I? And again I turn, as looking to my answer written in stone,
and remember the question, who were these?