Why are onion bottles so rare?

[Grenadaresearch]

Why are onion bottles so rare to find why diving in old harbours, is it that the contents were so rare? Ive only seen one found out of hundreds and out of the ten or so bottle divers I know they themselves can only mention the odd one?
Im curious please advise.
James

 

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[Leon]

PLease explain what an onion bottle is, so I can keep an eye out...
I didn't know they ever stuck onions in bottles

 

[Leon]

Thanks for the info and the pic,,,
It sure helped, but I doubt I would find anything like that around here, but ya never know...

 

[Charles,Oak Island]

Here is one I pulled out of about 30 ft of water in the Cape Fear River. It is in very rough condition. But of the 400+ bottles I have pulled from the river it is still my favorite. It was recovered probable within yards of where the Gentleman Pirate Stede Bonnet took the Royal James for careening.

 

[Grenadaresearch]

So does this mean we have no idea of what or why there are so few onions in the harbour - my friend a commercial diver never finds bottles - onions at least , he does however find hundreds of others.
Well Ill keep looking.
Thanks
James
PS those maps were blurry Cornelius and hard to make out... any of the British Virgin Islands.
??thanks

 

[Charles,Oak Island]

Cornelius, I would strongly recomend you pick up a copy of " Shipwrecks IN The Americas" by Marx, turn to page 392 on the following page Wine bottles bottle #1 row 4 c.1730-1745. Also in the Southport Mariners Musem you will find it's twin (but in better condition) as beening a spanish wine bottle. Of all my research I do not recall any Dutch vessels sank in the Cape Fear River.
As with for example clay/pottery beer bottles in England and the US in the mid 1800's I expect the same design/style bottle was made in more than one location during the patirular time frame.

 

[rgecy]

Grenadaresearch,
I think the answer to your question "Why are Onion Bottle so rare" is fairly obvious.? Just like anything significantly old, they become rare with time.? If you find the right area or wreck, you will find the Onion bottles.? In the local rivers here in SC we have had ship traffic dating back to the 1500's and heavy traffic from the early 1700's on.? While ships were anchored at port, they would toss the bottles overboard.? I recently dove the site of an old 1700's trading post.? Most of the veteran divers claimed the site was dove out, but I had never dove it before and wanted to see for myself.? I found a spot on the opposite shore where a ship must have been anchored and found bottles dating back to the 1770's.? What is so amazing is they were mixed in with modern Pepsi bottles.? I would find a Pepsi or some other modern bottle, and right next to it would be one 200 years older.? I litterally found 4 identical beer bottles from the 1700's within a 10 ft radius of each other.? This is also the same area where I found the 3 gallon ceramic jug (pictured in my Avatar) whch dates back to the early 1900's.? The area is rich with history and bottles from every era can be found all right together.? Its just a matter of finding the right spot.

They are there, it may just take time.? Also, Onion bottles being so old, they may be covered up by sand or coral growth.? Most of the older bottles I find, I have to dig for or pull on coral growth to see whats attached.? I will use a knife or screwdriver to poke into the sediment and pull myself along.? If I hear the distinct sound of my blade hitting glass, I dig!? In this area, the rivers will have shoots of coral plants growing from the bottom.? They are attached to something!? Pull it up and see what it is.? Usually a fossilised bone, Megoladon tooth, or a bottle.

Good Luck,

Robert in SC

 

[Grenadaresearch]

Hi I agree with Cornelius - although I may be wrong... the onions I have come to know and Ive seen many dont look like that one , however I have heard a friend term that a "French Onion" although not as squat as a Spanish Onion as in Cornelius pic`s , again though Cornelius doesnt think they are of Spanish Origin so this is clearing up alot , thank you both. I have several French Onions a long with many other beauties, ok thanks again guys
James

 

[Charles,Oak Island]

I'll made sure to tell the Museum you said they are wrong.

 

[Grenadaresearch]

Charles - I never said you were wrong or the museum , I stated that I had heard these (Yours) referred to as French Onions , and the latter as Spanish Onions. I may be completely wrong only stating what Ive been told, however you may have an idea from antique bottle forum on the net.
Wish I could find the spanish one and by the way nice jug , Ive a broken one , have heard that the port of Gianha in the Indies is great for finding the "Grey Beards"
James

 

[treaser hunta]

Could you please tell me what the bottom of the bottles look like. I found a big coral encrusted hand blown bottle on the beach.Iwent back and found one other piece of the bottle.

 

[treaser hunta]

I need to see a bottom view.

 

[GuyanaGuy]

Hello,

I'm new to this forum, but I collect onion bottles and other black glass bottles from primarily rivers in Guyana. Most production of English onions and many of the other continental European onions were reduced because they couldn't compete with the less-expensively produced Dutch onions (that can be identified by the 'open pontile' on the bottom, color and applied rim), so ALL Europeans, etc, were buying the Dutch onions after a while..when emptied, the owners would go to the nearest pub and buy a refill. Some carried 'medicinal' drink, many probably were probably strapped by some kind of leather bands and carried...some were buried in homes to ward off hex's and evil spirits with ingredients that included urine, etc... The one presumably French onion I saw had a more narrow neck and a strange pontile..the Germans etc also produced these bottles. I have some English that have a distinct 'sand pontile' on the bottom and typically are more crude than equivalently-aged Dutch onions. I also have a couple of strange onions that are not typical English nor Dutch...possibly from Belgium or German states.

Most ships would carry large containers carrying wine, etc to refill these onions at the colonies...the beverage was not typically transported in onions, so fewer would be seen on ship wrecks but more would be found at the colonies--as is the case..

just a few comments

 

[divedigger]

another reason the onions are so rare is that they were not discarded often but were re-used,and there were not as many people around back then,and the glass itself being thin and fragile does deteriate,the ones I have found vary from falling apart to there but delicate.I see a lot of broken ones.

 

[stevemc]

The full size picture of the bottle with the chipped lip way back at the beginning, is what is known as a "wisterberg bottle" It is like an onion bottle but has been rolled while being blown. An onion bottle will be quite squat with round sides. Both wisterberg and onion bottles can be found on the same wreck or site, so they should be about the same era. I would say the reason you dont find many onion bottles is because they are very old and most have been found in accessable areas. My father(Bill McAdoo(bottle Bill) found hundreds of them diving in the Caribbean and Central and South America in the 60s and 70s. Also many in Nassau Harbour before it was dredged in the late 60s. When Robert Marx started diving on Port Royal, Jamacia in 1969, he called my dad to come down and ID the bottles and assist with excavation. One of these days I will scan a picture or 2 and post for you. Steve.

 

[bohala]

Many of these dutch onion bottles have been recovered from river areas around old Dutch forts in Dutch Guiana in South America. Many were in very good condition due to being in silt and fresh water. I have several in my collection I got from dredging in this area.
Bohala