Why do I end up digging a trench instead of a hole?

[ashton9]

I'm new to THing and have about 10 hours of detecting under my belt. Occasionally I'll get a good nickel signal with no smear registered on the LCD. I'll pinpoint, dig it and recheck the hole and the signal has moved just to the edge of the hole. Well, I figure my pinpointing is off so I dig some more and recheck and the signal moves again, over and over and in the same direction. I quit digging the signal after the hole is around a foot long. I using a 1990 White's Spectrum Eagle.

 

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[earthmansurfer]

I'm not familiar with your unit but there are a few things to consider:
1. Your experience - You just need practice
2. How the object is laying - a coin laying at angle will "sound" where it's not. You need to play in a test garden or just put a coin in the ground at different angles to understand what I'm saying. (no tricks on this one)
3. A smaller coil is way easier to pinpoint with. When I use my 10" coil I dig some wider holes than with my 6" coil.
4. Depending on your unit you may be able to pinpoint in a variety of ways. You can try to center the discriminate beep in a "t" like fashion, or use the all metal side and detune the target. Play around, it will get better.
5. A pinpointer is really a good aid, so is a probe (which I have yet to use).

Basically just practice in your yard with a test coin. See where on your coil the "true center" is. More than likely it's in the very center. I'm new also, only 2 months into it. Nothing like digging a 12" deep whole and then realizing the target is on the side 1" down! eheheh?
Be careful when digging those trenches. You don't want to create any ememies for you or and other detectorists alike. I recommend a great book called the Detectorist. It's hard to find but available online if you look.
Good luck to you,
Al

 

[JARMAN]

Earthmansurfer,As Al said you may want to try a smaller coil,and again depending on how the objict is laying.I use the (X) procedure.When i have a hit i swing from left to right then top to bottom and find my center and olmost never have to pin point.I cut aprox,6 inch circle with my spade at abought 6 to 8 inchs deep remove in one pc,then recheck hole.has to be one or the other.This alows me to work the soil from bottom of plug and still have a nice flush grass ground cover for my patch even if i have to dig deeper.Works 90 plus % of the time.Above all it takes pratice and you will develope what works best for you.And the ground.HH-Jarman

 

[JARMAN]

sorry for the mix up in names guy's.You know who you are.Jarman

 

[Lasivian]

I've had this issue too frankly. Not quite sure what it is either.

I'm using an XLT.

And I agree, a test bed of different things/situations would be a really good thing. (I need one myself)

 

[ashton9]

I'll clarify a bit. My hole ends up a 6"D x 6"W x 12" Long. My pinpointing is OK and it is dead center of the coil. I haven't wreaked any Parks yet, my detecting has been on my property so far. Of course the wife is not impressed with the back lawn right now. I just tell her, the less I have to mow, the more time I have to metal detect. MD with her and the kids of course.?

 

[Ocean7]

I would say your ground balance setting is way off. You should make sure you know how to properly do this before you start detecting. If you cannot PP a coin on top of ground underneath some cardboard or paper - you can forget about in the ground.

 

[ashton9]

I"m pretty sure I have re-ground balanced during these episodes. I will definitely make sure the next time it occurs. This is a used detector and I'm new to MDing, is there any way to calibrate a MD and know it works properly? Gee, this sound like another post.

 

[Ocean7]

well these old style detectors were designed to be ground balanced every time you used them. The coil was raised above ground say 3 feet, and ground balance knob was turned up or down depending on what was needed in that area. Then toggle switch was pushed to all-metal mode to retune and coil was lowered to ground. If coil sounded off louder - you were too high. If signal went silent - you were too low.

helps to have orig. manual. i can't say for this model but above applies for most VLF detectors in that
era.

 

[elkboy]

Not sure if your xlt made in that year has an (all metal) toggle or trigger that can be used to pinpoint with. my xlt made 2yrs ago does and when pinpointing I use it, then cut me a horse shoe shape in the sod flip up and begin removing dirt inch at a time or more depending on what depth my detector told me the hit was.

 

[Ocean7]

oh I assumed you were using the PP toggle switch mode - yes?

 

[earthmansurfer]

Ashton,
? ? ?First, regarding ground balancing, it's important but I don't think that is why you are not centering on your targets. Bad ground balancing will cause you to miss the target, it will not move your center point. It's more a form of discriminating out the ground minerals, which can include a small deeper target, if not done often and properly.
? ? ?Second, you clarified the size of your hole. It's interesting that your whole is not symetrical as far as width and length go. If that is consistent you might have a problem with one of the axis (X or Y) more than the other. Something that really helped me here was to use a little plastic object to lay on the ground according to where you think the target is. Move it around until you feel it is centered. Don't imagine the center point, go by what you are hearing, one axis at a time. Be PATIENT, there is not rush, enjoy yourself and watch the progress unfold. eheheh
? ? ?A nice exercise in pinpointing would be to put a piece of thin carboard paper over some targets (not knowing where precisely the target is) then go along and mark with a black marker where you think the center is. You may start to see a trend this way. Do 6 or so targets one after the other then go back and check (obviously lifting the paper up from one side only). Mark the correct center in a different color if need be, you can even find it with a pinpointer if you have one. Are they all off on the X axis or Y axis? See where I'm going with this? You just might need to compensate, you might be consistently off in the same way.
? ? ?I don't think you have a DD coil which is better for bad ground, but if you do they don't center very easily.
Al

 

[ashton9]

Thanks for the input everyone. My detector was state of the art in 1990. $900 new, I have the receipt from the original owner. The detector has a pinpoint all metal mode trigger. No knobs to ground balance, it is auto, but the manual says to reground balance once in a while. I have been pinpointing really well most of the time, just every once in a while the trench digging happens. My brother in law, (newbie also) was doing a good job and finding clad with the detector, and he had the same problem happen to him. White's is very receptive to repairing their detectors but I'm not sure it needs repair or I need more experience.

 

[coinshooter]

Use a screwdriver and a vibraprobe instead of a trenching shovel .

 

[Cladbag]

Re: Why do I end up digging a trench THE REAL ANSWER

Ok. Here is the real answer..
I did that today actually, with a XLT. I dug a trench and the target has a interference metal near by..? Even though the XLT can and will recognize the target as a quarter or whatever the interference metal? distorts the pinponting. Or even better explanation the cone of detection data? is distorted? from the disturbing metal.? ?The pinpoint makes it look 6 inches or more away. After digging one of those trenches try looking near by for another metal (all Metal Mode) .? ?
The XLT recognizes good targets over and near other metals because it is looking at the signal pattern data even if another pattern has distorted the data.? The darn thing is good.
If the target strength (pull trigger mode)? seems to have a? trailing off comet shape dig more to the tail of the comet.?
Limit the hole depth when you start trenching.
Get a Sun Ray Probe if you? want to see the target 2+ inches away inside the hole on the side.

Good luck on multiple coin groups. . Dig those multiple blips and not the screamers (VCO on).? 4 coins in a 1 foot group will make a trench anyway.

Hope this gave you some help. If it does, smile once for me.

Dan

 

[ashton9]

This phenomenon seems to be limited to my own back yard. I have now done some detecting in other areas without this problem reoccurring. Cladbag might be on to something, I have small pieces of metal all over the yard, I'm not sure what it is or really care. The pieces are painted white on one side and very flexible like chimney flashing. I think I'll try discriminating the pieces out, I haven't tried anything like that yet. I have been sticking to the preloaded programs so far. I'll check my manual tonight about VCO, but I think it is off in all of the preloaded programs.

 

[lab rat]

One thing I've noticed is that with most detectors I've used, if the target is a wire the pinpointer seems to indicate target center at the end of the wire. The same thing often occurs with chains. Anyone else notice this?

 

[IronMike]

Lab Rat is right. I have chased bits of wire and tin foil around for way too long, and that was in dirt. Throw in a couple of bird shot pellets and your in for a fun time.
Micheal

 

[Cladbag]

Boy Wire is the prime example of field shape effect..in regards to my previous post..
The field is denser at he end of the wire..

Clad...

 

[wayne]

I'm not familiar with your unit but there are a few things to consider:
1. Your experience - You just need practice
2. How the object is laying - a coin laying at angle will "sound" where it's not. You need to play in a test garden or just put a coin in the ground at different angles to understand what I'm saying. (no tricks on this one)
3. A smaller coil is way easier to pinpoint with. When I use my 10" coil I dig some wider holes than with my 6" coil.
4. Depending on your unit you may be able to pinpoint in a variety of ways. You can try to center the discriminate beep in a "t" like fashion, or use the all metal side and detune the target. Play around, it will get better.
5. A pinpointer is really a good aid, so is a probe (which I have yet to use).

Basically just practice in your yard with a test coin. See where on your coil the "true center" is. More than likely it's in the very center. I'm new also, only 2 months into it. Nothing like digging a 12" deep whole and then realizing the target is on the side 1" down! eheheh?
Be careful when digging those trenches. You don't want to create any ememies for you or and other detectorists alike. I recommend a great book called the Detectorist. It's hard to find but available online if you look.
Good luck to you,
Al
[take your detector to whites or send it in to whites for recalibration. - /quote]