Why-- I just dont get it !!

[lost it]

Why-- I just don't get it !!

I just don't understand why all the precious and semi precious metals keep falling, and falling. I have only been following the prices for about two or three years now. When platinum was $1700---gold was like $1600. I thought PM's went up and down with the economy. Economy is good =low pm prices economy is bad = high pm prices. I may be wrong but does the economy have anything to do with it? Is the economy a lot stronger than it was two or three years ago I don't know. Anyway I'm certainly not trying to make political talk--just trying to figure out the PM's. When can we expect an upswing?

 

[Jason in Enid]

Back when the market reflected actual PM transfers, your correlation was correct. You could watch it do the exact opposite of the stock market every day. Now, something like 90% of the PMs traded are just make believe paper trades that go back and forth every day. That makes them no different than the stocks themselves.

One day though, something will happen and people will get desperate and demand to exchange their paper for metal and it won't be there. When that happens, the prices (for physical metal) will exploded exponentially.

 

[T.C.]

Well put J!!

 

[Goose-0]

DITTO what D C mentioned !!!

 

[Icewing]

Just watch, every time there is an economic "bubble", it will inevitably burst and PM's will shoot up. Right now oil prices are down (sign of poor production) and PM's are oversold but that's always a sign of things to come. I suspect right around election time things will get rough again just like they did in 07-08, uncertainty makes artificial (stock) markets unstable.

Is there ever a good time to trade PM's for fiat money?
Not if you plan on saving it.

 

[LukeTHr]

I view the precious metals markets like a big game of musical chairs, there are a lot of people "invested" , or so they think.....they have it on paper. As long as the music keeps going, everybody is happy.......as soon as the music stops and people want "their silver or gold" they are gonna be pissed when they find out it doesn't exist. Only the folks that hold the cold hard physical metal in their own safes or hidey holes will be the only folks with a chair.

 

[Goodygold]

You are absolutely right about the game of musical gold chairs! I found this interesting video that illustrate exactly what you’re talking about.

https://www.goldbroker.com/en_GB/news/gold-the-titanic-and-lifeboats-a-simple-explanation-81

My real challenge was storage. I personally would not want large amounts of gold in my home because it could make my family a target. Burying gold is problematic, if you do not tell anyone, the gold is lost when you die. Sharing the location could also lead to trust issues over time. I personally chose a unique alternative solution where they store the gold outside the banking system. The storage company issues the certificate of title and the gold broker facilitates the relationship with the vault. I can visit, withdraw or ship my gold from the vault without the gold broker being present because I own the gold directly.

 

[Jason in Enid]

You are absolutely right about the game of musical gold chairs! I found this interesting video that illustrate exactly what you’re talking about.

https://www.goldbroker.com/en_GB/news/gold-the-titanic-and-lifeboats-a-simple-explanation-81

My real challenge was storage. I personally would not want large amounts of gold in my home because it could make my family a target. Burying gold is problematic, if you do not tell anyone, the gold is lost when you die. Sharing the location could also lead to trust issues over time. I personally chose a unique alternative solution where they store the gold outside the banking system. The storage company issues the certificate of title and the gold broker facilitates the relationship with the vault. I can visit, withdraw or ship my gold from the vault without the gold broker being present because I own the gold directly.

If you don't physically posses YOUR gold, where you can put your hands on it when YOU wish, then you own nothing. Paper is paper, and in the event of large market swing, you get nothing but paper. Read your fine print, every PM holding company has exclusions that say they have the right to pay you the equivalent sum in paper money at their discretion.

 

[jim4silver]

You are absolutely right about the game of musical gold chairs! I found this interesting video that illustrate exactly what you’re talking about.

https://www.goldbroker.com/en_GB/news/gold-the-titanic-and-lifeboats-a-simple-explanation-81

My real challenge was storage. I personally would not want large amounts of gold in my home because it could make my family a target. Burying gold is problematic, if you do not tell anyone, the gold is lost when you die. Sharing the location could also lead to trust issues over time. I personally chose a unique alternative solution where they store the gold outside the banking system. The storage company issues the certificate of title and the gold broker facilitates the relationship with the vault. I can visit, withdraw or ship my gold from the vault without the gold broker being present because I own the gold directly.

I found a private storage facility that I am happy with. It is a local place that rents storage boxes (like bank sdb's but bigger). The place is open 7 days a week and very secure. It is not tied into the banking system. Have nice private rooms so you can take your box out and look at the contents in private as long as you want. Way better than the bank sdb I was using. The only downside is I suppose the company could lock its doors and everyone would be screwed. The place has been in biz 20+ years so hoping that doesn't happen. I only went there because a few big coin dealers I know store their own stuff there (talking $500K to $1 million + each). My crappy little silver pile hopefully will be safe there.

I rent so there is no way I am keeping more than a thousand or so worth of stuff at home at any given time. If I owned a home I would probably get a professionally installed HIDDEN safe and keep stuff in that.

Just my opinion.

Jim

 

[Goose-0]

Jim, buy a safe. I started to use a safe deposit box at a bank. Then I purchased a used medium (wt. 600 lbs) safe with 1" steel walls, not like some "Stack-On" safes that have 16 ga walls. I paid $400 for it. Then I found a deal on another safe, a little smaller (wt. 300 lbs) that has only 3/4" steel walls. I paid $250. Finally, my kids gave me a 6' tall large safe (wt. 750 lbs) for Christmas. ($650-?) I have certain stuff in each safe, and all are pretty full now.
To begin with, buy a small used (3' X 3' X 2') safe ($250) with locking bolts (2 locking bolts on top of the door & 3 locking bolts on the door's side). It might weigh around 250 lbs that should be easy to move with a 2 wheel hand cart.

 

[Goose-0]

Down & Down it goes.......silver tonight went down 40 cents/oz to $18.85/oz. What do we do now? BUY....BUY !

 

[jim4silver]

Jim, buy a safe. I started to use a safe deposit box at a bank. Then I purchased a used medium (wt. 600 lbs) safe with 1" steel walls, not like some "Stack-On" safes that have 16 ga walls. I paid $400 for it. Then I found a deal on another safe, a little smaller (wt. 300 lbs) that has only 3/4" steel walls. I paid $250. Finally, my kids gave me a 6' tall large safe (wt. 750 lbs) for Christmas. ($650-?) I have certain stuff in each safe, and all are pretty full now.
To begin with, buy a small used (3' X 3' X 2') safe ($250) with locking bolts (2 locking bolts on top of the door & 3 locking bolts on the door's side). It might weigh around 250 lbs that should be easy to move with a 2 wheel hand cart.

Goose-O,

If two guys and a dolly can carry it in they can carry it out that way too. I like the hidden safe idea because then if you have intruders they won't know you have the safe to begin with. Maybe have a small cheapo safe with some small stuff in it so they think they got something if you do get hit.

I would have a safe like you described for my guns but probably not PM's. I have seen cases where family members or their friends get into the safe when the owner was out of town and steal his jewelry, PM's, etc.

Jim

 

[Jason in Enid]

Goose-O,

If two guys and a dolly can carry it in they can carry it out that way too.

Jim

Not when it's bolted to the floor slab from the inside of the safe!

 

[jim4silver]

Not when it's bolted to the floor slab from the inside of the safe!

That's true. Bolted won't be easily removed. However, based on the rating of any particular safe, a fire torch and/or sledgehammer might get in without too much effort. If suppose if I had a bolted TL-60 safe (can withstand 60 minutes of "attack" from fire/tools/etc) and home burglar alarm I would feel somewhat "safe". But anyone with regular house access would know it was there. They could bring over a friend or tell a friend about this big cool safe at your house, etc. Hidden safe is still number 1. Kind of like burying it in your own house.

Jim

 

[Goose-0]

Silver.....where are you going? DOWN again today 30 cents to $18.60. Oh, woe is me....I think I'll go out and buy some more.

 

[Xraywolf]

I don't buy gold - If the SHTF in a big way and we are reduced to bartering, would you rather have 1 gold eagle or 50+ silver eagles ?
Would you trade a gold eagle for a loaf of bread ? Noooo ,,, For a silver eagle or 2 ? Yes.
If you are looking purely as an investment then maybe so, but it won't be all that useful in a crisis scenario. Guns & ammo of course would be most precious of all.

I keep my stash in 2 smallish but very secure safes bolted into a metal cabinet in the basement. Only practical way to get the silver out would be a gun to my head, before which they'd have to get past my 2 100 lb German Sheps. Sure, it can happen but you can only be so paranoid before you realize that you take what precautions you can and everything will be Ok.
I wouldn't trust any institution with my stash and like guys have said, owning on paper is worthless for anything but pure investment. I bought 3 green monsters when silver was about $14.50, I think at one point of time it was damn near $40, has been dropping every since but I can see a big spike coming.

 

[fistfulladirt]

I don't buy gold - If the SHTF in a big way and we are reduced to bartering, would you rather have 1 gold eagle or 50+ silver eagles ?
Would you trade a gold eagle for a loaf of bread ? Noooo ,,, For a silver eagle or 2 ? Yes.
If you are looking purely as an investment then maybe so, but it won't be all that useful in a crisis scenario. Guns & ammo of course would be most precious of all.

I keep my stash in 2 smallish but very secure safes bolted into a metal cabinet in the basement. Only practical way to get the silver out would be a gun to my head, before which they'd have to get past my 2 100 lb German Sheps. Sure, it can happen but you can only be so paranoid before you realize that you take what precautions you can and everything will be Ok.
I wouldn't trust any institution with my stash and like guys have said, owning on paper is worthless for anything but pure investment. I bought 3 green monsters when silver was about $14.50, I think at one point of time it was damn near $40, has been dropping every since but I can see a big spike coming.

It doesn't always have to be 'either/or'. I believe the key is to diversify. You might be limiting yourself, gold is much easier to carry than silver if you have to bug out. They make fractional gold, you don't have to carry just ounces.
I wouldn't buy gold or silver for an investment or for barter if shtf. I look at it as insurance, to carry wealth into the next monetary system.

 

[jeff of pa]

Gas Prices were what I went by

Gas up, PM's down
Gas down PM's up.

then they started following each other.

Now they seem to be totally independent of each other.

This is what proves to Me PM prices are being manipulated.
and the fact the investigations say they are Not.
proves to me our Government is in on it.

 

[Xraywolf]

It doesn't always have to be 'either/or'. I believe the key is to diversify. You might be limiting yourself, gold is much easier to carry than silver if you have to bug out. They make fractional gold, you don't have to carry just ounces.
I wouldn't buy gold or silver for an investment or for barter if shtf. I look at it as insurance, to carry wealth into the next monetary system.

Well, thats an investment in peace of mind then. People buy PM for any number of reasons, but it all comes back to giving oneself an advantage if things as we know them change in a big way - And whether that means prices spiking and cashing out, monetary systems changing or bartering for food in a post apocalyptic environment, we have something tangible and [relatively] unchanging in the midst of uncertainty.
As far as fractionals, when it comes to the point of needing a magnifying glass to be sure of what you have, not sure how useful that would be. I just see a whole lot more bang for the buck with silver vs gold, may or may not actually be true, important thing for me is I believe it.

 

[jim4silver]

I think the whole bartering type scenario some people predict is not going to happen here in the US. There can be no way such a lifestyle would be sustainable unless you are talking about Amish folks or other such types. Even those folks would eventually be overrun by urban dwellers out and about looking to steal and pillage.

Regular folks would only have so much food and water to spare so I doubt they would be willing to trade any for any type of "money", whether it be gold, silver, zombucks, bitcoin, etc.

I think if silver and gold take off it would be more akin to the bitcoin phenomenon we saw a couple of years ago where the price shoots up for a while then drops. If this happens, there could be some really high prices for gold and silver but I don't think they would stay there forever.

Just my opinion.

Jim