WW1 ?

[RelicDude]

I found this enameled hat pin badge today where alot of world 1 medals and buttons have been found. Is anyone familiar with this lion and Fleur de lis insignia? I have no idea. Thanks for the help- Justin

 

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[RelicDude]

Sorry forgot pictures. Lok

 

[RelicDude]

The back

 

[Old Pueblo]

The back looks like it could be WW1 era to me.

 

[nhbenz]

While screw posts usually means an earlier one, examples can be found on Distinctive Unit Insignia up just past WWII. There doesn't happen to be a makers mark hiding behind the nut on it is there?
Dating Metallic Insignia: Distinctive Insignia
Of course knowing the unit would help, but having looked at whole bunches tonight I couldn't find this one... I used every combination I could think of with the terms fleur de lis, lion (or lion passant), and saltire (the blue and white flag, often used to show the units history included civil war action). But I just plain couldn't find it.

 

[trikikiwi]

We can identify elements of the history of the Unit from the following information,
"The British lion in the Distinctive Unit Insignia symbolizes Revolutionary War service against the British; the blue saltire, Civil War service with the Union; ... ; and the fleur-de-lis, service in France during World War I. ... "
sourced from the following link;
Army National Guard and Active Regular Army Units with Colonial Roots - Wikiwand

Obviously the Insignia shield is from a very historic Unit. I continue to search.

 

[trikikiwi]

Would it be cheating to go to these guys?
The Institute of Heraldry | Home

 

[Xraywolf]

Most likely US army DUI, pre WW2 possibly during.
Here is a very similar badge with unit id'ed - Could possibly be another unit of the same regiment.

 

[trikikiwi]

Most likely US army DUI, pre WW2 possibly during.
Here is a very similar badge with unit id'ed - Could possibly be another unit of the same regiment.

Well found! That has to be related.
I've spent a lot of time (a lot of time ) searching and didn't find that one. I have concluded, the original find is from between the WW wars and having the red background is most likely artillery. I wonder if it was redesigned.

 

[RelicDude]

Thank you unfortunately there. Isn't any makers mark .

 

[Xraywolf]

I agree they must be related, everything is there except the lion.
The one I posted appears to be more modern.

If you've done extensive searching then you probably browsed here, huge collection of DUI's

http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/C...x?CategoryId=22&grp=2&menu=Uniformed Services

I would be surprised if it wasn't somewhere in there.

[Can be tough finding good results are search engines think you are looking for drunk driving info]

I am thinking the fleur indicates a unit that fought in France WW1, or combat service in France at some point in time. The red as already stated, artillery.
Lion most likely service in England. White would be infantry at some point in the units evolution.
The blue X [saltire] stands for Union civil war service [which of course does not mean the badge itself is civil war era, only that that conflict is on this units service file].

Here is an example for those interested just how loaded with symbolism even a seemingly simple design can be



192D MILITARY POLICE BATTALION

Symbolism

The shield is white, the old facings of the Infantry. The red cross is for Revolutionary War service and the blue saltire for Civil War service. The fleur-de-lis on the red chief, the present color for Artillery, represents service as Artillery in France during World War I.

So we can see the OP badge, the unit saw Artillery service in France during World War I and infantry service [Union] during the Civil war.
Only mystery is how the lion [England] fits into this, and of course, the unit itself.
Why would a clear reference to service in England be superimposed over a clear reference to Union infantry service in the civil war ?

 

[Xraywolf]

Only thing I can think of that makes sense is maybe the lion denotes service not in England but against it, maybe in the war of 1812 [symbol for revolutionary service, as noted above, is a red cross].

 

[trikikiwi]

...

If you've done extensive searching then you probably browsed here, huge collection of DUI's

http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/C...x?CategoryId=22&grp=2&menu=Uniformed Services

I would be surprised if it wasn't somewhere in there.

...
QUOTE]

Yes. I think I looked at every Army, Artillery, Cavalry and National Guard Unit with a few other random Units. No luck.

 

[Rmeav8r]

I found this enameled hat pin badge today where alot of world 1 medals and buttons have been found. Is anyone familiar with this lion and Fleur de lis insignia? I have no idea. Thanks for the help- Justin

The Griffin (lion/eagle) is associated with Military Intelligence units, that may help narrow it down.

 

[Xraywolf]

Not sure that would qualify as a Griffin without wings.