QUESTIONABLE INFORMATION POSTED AS FACT CONCERNING THE BEALE TALE - Page 14
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Thread: QUESTIONABLE INFORMATION POSTED AS FACT CONCERNING THE BEALE TALE

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  1. #196

    Jun 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by ECS View Post
    Question:
    It seems that the darkened buildings are residences and those with lines (Adams Bros for example) are businesses and warehouses.
    The buildings with Max Guggenheiner Jr on Fifth and Main have the lines of businesses and warehouses.

    https://www.gravegarden.org/confeder...-in-lynchburg/
    The above site has a map of the hotels and homes utilized as hospitals during the 1861-1865 War of Northern Aggression.
    On this map, which was made into a Lynchburg historical marker has Fifth and Main on the left side on the map, where the 1877 Grey's has these streets on the right side of the map, which makes comparison confusing.
    The buildings on Fifth and Main on the Confederate hospital map are the PLANTERS HOTEL and Lucy Mina Otey's Ladies Relief Hospital, and the Washington Hotel is on Eighth and Main.
    *NOTE* Lucy Mina Otey was the aunt of Harriet Ward, James Beverly Ward's wife.

    Neither map are solid confirmation of Max Guggenheimer's residence on Main Street.
    Are there existing tax and/or property records from 1885 that could finally conform the statement in the Beale Papers?
    COULD BE! Come & LOOK!
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  2. #197

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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    The house now owned and occupied by Max Guggenheimer ESQ
    THANKS! FOUND IT!
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  3. #198
    ECS
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    ... Here is Grey's 1877 Map
    Attachment 1775817
    Are you able to post the Diamond Hill section that shows 1902 Grace Street on Grey's 1877 map?
    ...and possibly the legend that explains the various markings?

  4. #199

    Jun 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by ECS View Post
    Are you able to post the Diamond Hill section that shows 1902 Grace Street on Grey's 1877 map?
    ...and possibly the legend that explains the various markings?
    Diamond Hill...? FULL of old homes, "OLD" $$$$$$$$$$$$...
    Last edited by Rebel - KGC; Nov 30, 2019 at 07:26 PM.
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  5. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by ECS View Post
    Are you able to post the Diamond Hill section that shows 1902 Grace Street on Grey's 1877 map?
    ...and possibly the legend that explains the various markings?
    The legend has no explanation but the newer buildings are in black and the older builders are brown. I believe. Max Guggenheimer Jr. Did not live in the Diamond Hill Section in 1877. There were four different landowners living there at that time. A Mrs. Miller's property was the western boundary of Max's property later. They named the Street after 1877 where she lived as Wilson Street and it was the western boundary of Max Jr.'s property later.Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by franklin; Nov 30, 2019 at 03:07 PM.
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  6. #201
    ECS
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    Thank You, Franklin.
    Do you have access to tax or property records for 1885 Lynchburg that can verify Max Guggenheimer did indeed live on Main Street when the Beale Papers was published for sale?
    There had to be a reason that he along with the agent/publisher were the only two people named that were living when the pamphlet was published for sale.

  7. #202
    ECS
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    ... Here is Grey's 1877 Map I posted on the Link maybe it will help you find it?
    Attachment 1775817
    The building labeled as Max Guggenheimer, is that considered the head of Main Street?
    Is the address number 167 or 600?

  8. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by ECS View Post
    The building labeled as Max Guggenheimer, is that considered the head of Main Street?
    Is the address number 167 or 600?
    Main Street at the southern end starts out over 1200 as you come up Main street the numbers get smaller. Lot #84 where Max Guggenheimer lived in the house of Robert Morriss was around the 600 block. To get to 167 you would have to go over across the river into Madison Heights.
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  9. #204
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    THE DAILY VIRGINIAN March 19,1863
    "NOTICE-The undersigned wishes to inform his friends and customers in the city and county that he has been carrying on his business at No 167 Main Street, near the Norvell House. Max Guggenheimer"
    If 167 Main Street was "near the Norvell House" it would not be across the river into Madison Heights.
    What was the Main Street address number of the Norvell House in 1863?

  10. #205

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    Quote Originally Posted by ECS View Post
    THE DAILY VIRGINIAN March 19,1863
    "NOTICE-The undersigned wishes to inform his friends and customers in the city and county that he has been carrying on his business at No 167 Main Street, near the Norvell House. Max Guggenheimer"
    If 167 Main Street was "near the Norvell House" it would not be across the river into Madison Heights.
    What was the Main Street address number of the Norvell House in 1863?
    Come & LOOK!

  11. #206
    ECS
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel - KGC View Post
    Come & LOOK!
    Wow! Another invite, but I don't need to come to Lynchburg to prove that the address numbers on Main Street have change since 1885.
    But, thank you for your invitation.

  12. #207

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    If you say so...

  13. #208
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    [QUOTE=franklin;6359047]
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  14. #209
    ECS
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    RETURN TO THE THREAD TOPIC OF QUESTIONABLE INFORMATION

    Quote Originally Posted by ECS View Post
    Over the years on various threads statements have been posted as "fact" when there is no documentation outside of the original source, THE BEALE PAPERS, publish by James Beverly Ward during the year of 1885 in Lynchburg, Virginia.
    Most appear to be based on opinion of maybe or pure embellished speculation, or force fitting random possibilities to fit a pet theory.

    Some of the questionable "facts":
    Robert Morriss was related to Robert Morris Jr, signer of the DOI.
    The Fine Arts Building on 600 Main St was the Morriss house where Beale stayed.
    Indians observed from a distance the kiln fires that the Beale Party utilized to smelt the ore.
    Once smelted gold and silver was made into bars by sand box casting.
    The gold was about 60% or 14K, the silver little more pure.
    The gold and silver bars were transported in false bottom wagons.
    To cross Big Otter Creek, the bars had to be unloaded and placed on pack mules.
    The treasure was placed in 30 gal salt Boone's Salt Works brine pots.
    The "key letter" was never delivered because of a St Louis flood.
    ...and so on.

    None of what is listed above is mentioned in the original source of THE BEALE PAPERS.
    The Beale Papers pamphlet type was set by typewriter.
    That device was developed by the MERGENTHALER LINOTYPE Co and was first placed on sale in 1886, one year after the job print pamphlet was printed.
    The Virginia Print Shop did not have a MERGENTHALER and the pamphlet type was set by hand.

    Pauline Innis was related to the Harts and her brother, the Right Rev Lawrence E Luscombe officiated at her funeral.
    Pauline Bertha Lee-Jones was born December 8, 1917, Torquay, South Devon. England, and was an only child, and she was related to Agatha Christie, but NOT to the Harts.
    Primus of the Episcopal Church of Scotland, Right Rev Lawrence E Luscombe did officiate at her funeral, but was her first cousin and only living relative.

    It is interesting how Ward's 23 page dime novel pamphlet has generated so much speculation and misinformation, and I might add, animosity when this questionable information that was posted as fact is pointed out and corrected.

  15. #210

    Jun 2007
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    [QUOTE=franklin;6368190]
    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    LOL!

 

 
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