Minelab sues Deus

[Xraywolf]

You guys. Many detectors "store data"... like remembers your last settings....that's technically stored data. I don't see a problem there but I may be wrong.

I see a problem with the detector storing or transmitting data between the machine and an external source...like a smartphone.

Anyone else besides Minelab currently offering same? Data specific to detector settings transmitted to external device?

I know of none.

You are probably right.
Ace 250 of a decade ago [and still] stores data, it remembers last settings.
Stored data transfer between the detector and a phone [or pinpointer] would be another matter.

We'll see how it pans out, may seem trivial to some but if we had a stake in ML, it would not. Companies are prevented all the time from implementing features in their products because of copyright, or being sued because they tried.

A good example is jobsite radios. I had the Dewalt which I liked, but very heavy and bulky. The Makita by contrast was light and slim and sounded better and even louder. Cheaper than the Dewalt too, but reading reviews on Amazon everyone was deducting stars because, while the Makita could be operated by an 18v battery, unlike the Dewalt it could not charge it, you have to charge it separately.
Everyone was commenting on what a dumb, cheap skate oversight this was, some even said they returned it because of it. I decided I could live without that feature and bought 2 of them and sold the Dewalt on craigslist.

Was talking to a Makita rep at a trade show, friendly talkative guy. I asked him about the battery issue, he kinda rolled his eyes and said he gets asked that alot ,, Turns out that Dewalt has a patent on portable job site radios also charging batteries, and no one else can implement that simple, handy feature in a jobsite radio but them.

If that happens then an injunction will be awarded, XP will be hurt (lost R&D, Marketing $ Etc.), the case will take a decade or longer to trickle through the system, and in the end technology will render the Deus obsolete, and if XP's lucky still in the game.

Hyperbole.
XP stands as one of the most advanced detectors as it stands. It is being sold as we speak, hobbling its update ability is not going to put a significant dent in sales.
Minelab may implement the features that they have copyrighted in its next flagship - And will be priced into the stratosphere where relatively very few can afford it.

 

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[Deft Tones]

You are probably right.
Ace 250 of a decade ago [and still] stores data, it remembers last settings.
Stored data transfer between the detector and a phone [or pinpointer] would be another matter.

We'll see how it pans out, may seem trivial to some but if we had a stake in ML, it would not. Companies are prevented all the time from implementing features in their products because of copyright, or being sued because they tried.

A good example is jobsite radios. I had the Dewalt which I liked, but very heavy and bulky. The Makita by contrast was light and slim and sounded better and even louder. Cheaper than the Dewalt too, but reading reviews on Amazon everyone was deducting stars because, while the Makita could be operated by an 18v battery, unlike the Dewalt it could not charge it, you have to charge it separately.
Everyone was commenting on what a dumb, cheap skate oversight this was, some even said they returned it because of it. I decided I could live without that feature and bought 2 of them and sold the Dewalt on craigslist.

Was talking to a Makita rep at a trade show, friendly talkative guy. I asked him about the battery issue, he kinda rolled his eyes and said he gets asked that alot ,, Turns out that Dewalt has a patent on portable job site radios also charging batteries, and no one else can implement that simple, handy feature in a jobsite radio but them.





Hyperbole.
XP stands as one of the most advanced detectors as it stands. It is being sold as we speak, hobbling its update ability is not going to put a significant dent in sales.
Minelab may implement the features that they have copyrighted in its next flagship - And will be priced into the stratosphere where relatively very few can afford it.

It may be hyperbole (of course it is) but that doesn't make it false. What's hyperbole today might be common view in the future.

I never liked the Dewalt radio (love the angle grinders and deck drills). Why does my radio need to charge anything....bah!

 

[seekerGH]

I doubt it's the app.

From the lawsuit....(details in post #25)

"For example, XP and Detector have been and continue to actively induce this infringing activity by encouraging and instructing customers to use the DEUS headset and remote control features so as to directly infringe the ’586 patent.

use of a wireless headset and use of a wireless remote...

 

[Deft Tones]

From the lawsuit....(details in post #25)


use of a wireless headset and use of a wireless remote...

Ah. They're suing for all of it.

I wonder about the inventors. Who is DEC? Wonder what part they play in this. Hmmmmmm.

 

[seekerGH]

I wonder about the inventors. Who is DEC? Wonder what part they play in this. Hmmmmmm.

There is a DEC in the detector electronics business, but looking at the lawsuit, DEC is a small retail store...

MetalDetector.com - Detector Electronics Corp.
23 Turnpike Rd,
Southborough, MA 01772

I have not been able to locate patents associated with XP yet...

"The three devices communicate with one another via a digital wireless link developed specifically for metal detecting. This patented design provides crystal clear audio and exceptionally efficient power consumption."

I guess it will be a battle of the patents.

too bad for the dealer.

EDIT: Any truth to the rumor that Codan sold off the hobby line of the business?

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

There is a DEC in the detector electronics business, but looking at the lawsuit, DEC is a small retail store...

MetalDetector.com - Detector Electronics Corp.
23 Turnpike Rd,
Southborough, MA 01772

I have not been able to locate patents associated with XP yet...

"The three devices communicate with one another via a digital wireless link developed specifically for metal detecting. This patented design provides crystal clear audio and exceptionally efficient power consumption."

I guess it will be a battle of the patents.

too bad for the dealer.

EDIT: Any truth to the rumor that Codan sold off the hobby line of the business?

Neither Codan nor Minelab has release any news on selling off the hobby line.

 

[Carl-NC]

Remember they won the lawsuit against Whites in 2010

I was at White's at the time, and did significant research on prior art. There is a-plenty. Despite my protests, White's decided not to challenge the patent, and folded.

How the patent got granted in the first place is beyond me. By '04, using wired/wireless to transfer data between a device & computer was old hat. Even peer-to-peer was common. So ML got a patent where commonly known techniques were specifically applied to a metal detector.

 

[waynedig]

.....Even peer-to-peer was common. So ML got a patent where commonly known techniques were specifically applied to a metal detector....

If in fact it is all that simple and straight forward in this case; some company needs to challenge this patent so even better industry innovation can continue unobstructed.

 

[dandut46]

I thought whites had to buy rights to there multi frequency detectors, and don't no if it was mention ,but I saw a notch screen on the deus that looked just like the etrac ,don't no if I was seeing things or not cause I don't use notch .what does this all mean ,win or lose.

 

[seekerGH]

I was at White's at the time, and did significant research on prior art. There is a-plenty. Despite my protests, White's decided not to challenge the patent, and folded.

How the patent got granted in the first place is beyond me. By '04, using wired/wireless to transfer data between a device & computer was old hat. Even peer-to-peer was common. So ML got a patent where commonly known techniques were specifically applied to a metal detector.

I would have to agree...I suspect that the XP wont roll over, especially if they have some patents. Seems to me that the language in the patent is far too broad.

Remember they won the lawsuit against Whites in 2010

Not sure if won is the correct term, as it was settled out of Court...for all we know, it was for $1...

Well, you know how rumors go.

BTW, how many detectors have wireless headphones?

 

[dandut46]

this is stupid!

 

[Xraywolf]

BTW, how many detectors have wireless headphones?

3 that I can think of - XP, 3030 and V3i.
I am starting to think the issue may be more with the new pinpointer, else why didn't they sue 2 years ago ?

 

[seekerGH]

xray, check the post #25 that includes the text from the lawsuit...

ML was specific about the headphones and the remote.

According to the lawsuit, ML sent XP a warning letter back in June 2016...

On the rumor note, that could be the impetus after all these years.

 

[Xraywolf]

xray, check the post #25 that includes the text from the lawsuit...

ML was specific about the headphones and the remote.

According to the lawsuit, ML sent XP a warning letter back in June 2016...

On the rumor note, that could be the impetus after all these years.

I read that.
You yourself stated in that post [and I quote]:

"ML only states that it has infringed, but gives little specifics on what feature(s) in the XP detector infringe, just blanket statements."

Thats the impression that I got too.
Something change your mind ? Deus has been out for what, 3+ years now ?
Hard to fathom why they waited this long if headphones/remote are the issue - Instead they made their move right when the update and pinpointer were taking center stage.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

My 2 cents, I think it has more to do with the transmission of data between the coil and the detector...

January 20, 2017 A New Beginning!

 

[seekerGH]

Something change your mind ? Deus has been out for what, 3+ years now ?
Hard to fathom why they waited this long if headphones/remote are the issue - Instead they made their move right when the update and pinpointer were taking center stage.

no, was just replying to your post about the pinpointer.

There are plenty of threat type lawsuits around.

Looking at the lawsuit and the details, especially the request for a jury trial, I am a bit skeptical (given that the median jury award is about 30 times the median bench award in patent litigation)

Not certain, but it does appear that ML has been putting out very much in the way of new products for a while, save for the 'much awaited' new coil....
when did the pinpointer come out in relation to the original cease and desist back in June?

 

[Chips]

Interesting thing about the pin pointer.
You can easily buy wireless head phones that are specifically aimed at our hobby on e-bay.
I bought a pair my self.
Granted,,,, not as nice as the Koss phones, but are cooler in summer and, I don't scream as much when these ebay phones, fall off my head and hit the rocks.

 

[seekerGH]

yes, the blutooth plug-in transmitter to the headphone jack is pretty common...there is a thread about that in these parts...

I see that the XP has an underwater kit for the headphones/remote, but little information that I can see...can the unit submerge, or just for rain and accidents?

Back to the patents. I notice that XP is very specific that their patent is for THREE elements, "A Coil , a Remote Control and a set of Audio Headphones , which are unique in that they communicate with each other via a digital radio link ".

ML patent states only between a detector and a remote, or to a computer, hence only TWO items?

The change to 3 elements, and how it is done, such as frequency pairing to isolate signals from other detectors in use in the proximity, is enough to overarch a patent with a new one.
(look at all of the different 'return' buttons on your various electronics after MSFT trademarked how theirs looks...its still a return button!)

It is also called a digital radio link, which is pretty specific, not simply wireless or wired. Looks like some thought was in the language used for sure. The patents would be really, really good to find!

 

[Carl-NC]

The ML patent basically covers the transmission of user parameters via wired/wireless. Wireless headphones would not infringe, providing the headphones don't transmit any parametric data to/from the detector. Ironically, the White's headphones do.

I haven't seen the new XP patent concerning the wireless pinpointer, but it sounds exactly like the one I filed at White's 4 or 5 years ago. No idea what became of the patent, but I thought it was one they shoulda kept. Unfortunately, White's has a long history of making bad decisions, and their refusal to stop doing this is why I left.

BTW, a new patent doesn't override an existing patent. You can add a new element or twist to something patented, but if your implementation still infringes the original patent, the new patent offers zero protection.

 

[ARC]

Deleted post after realizing this has to do with the "transmission" rather than the "storage" of. heh