Why is washington state being so strict on detecting laws?
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  1. #1
    us
    Apr 2006
    Bellevue, WA
    Minelab Explorer SE, Tesoro TigerShark
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    Why is washington state being so strict on detecting laws?

    So Washingtonian just texted me and told me that Renton, WA parks are all off limits to detecting, and Redmond Parks are all off limits to detecting. Now issaquah, WA is starting to make parks off limits. What should we do? Soon many parks will be off limits to detecting, and it is not our fault! Washingtonian, JuJu, I always cover our plugs and I am sure many people who are members of the Washington part of the forum try and do the same.

    This is effecting us big time. What are your thoughts?
    Anyone can make life interesting you just have to go out there and do things instead of sitting on your butt doing nothing. Second quote: Life is about trying new things not just standing around.

  2. #2
    us
    Apr 2006
    Bellevue, WA
    Minelab Explorer SE, Tesoro TigerShark
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    Re: Why is washington state being so strict on detecting laws?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spooky
    40.00 detectors being sold at wal mart with VERY LITTLE guidance and over sensationalized media stories about "fantastic riches", which of course the manufacturers are more than HAPPY to encourage..

    You see, in the past people got the information from other people who actually DETECT and were responsible. Those people would tell the prospective detectorist the REALITY of detecting. That it's NOT "all treasure"...
    This kept people who were just looking for a "quick buck" OUT, and attracted those with a serious LOVE for it.
    Not so, anymore.
    Now any slackjawed mouthbreather with 40.00, a way to get to Wal-Mart and a big shovel sees the "treasure show" or story on the news and takes off for the nearest park or other public area. (Because that's the EASIEST way with NO research) and starts chopping holes in the ground..

    THESE are the ones the parks administrators SEE.
    They don't NOTICE the 'responsible detectorist', because we don't want them TOO....... And that's the sad truth.



    Not much you CAN do, and it will only get worse.


    You can TRY to show people the RIGHT way and call the "idiots' on it when you see them doing things irresponsibly.

    I did that here, and got a few people all butthurt because they don't like "Some random guy" TELLING "ME" what to do....
    "Who are YOU to tell ME?" I was asked by a member here...

    THAT is the attitude that will get it banned EVERYWHERE.
    I defiantly agree with this. I am a very responsible dectorist and cover all my wholes and cut the plugs really nice. Yet even after that, parks are still not letting detectorists detect there. So sad.
    Anyone can make life interesting you just have to go out there and do things instead of sitting on your butt doing nothing. Second quote: Life is about trying new things not just standing around.

  3. #3
    us
    Director-Search & Recovery Team of Oakland County.

    Aug 2005
    In Michigan now.
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    Re: Why is washington state being so strict on detecting laws?

    Once the parks are closed it is very hard to get them open again to detecting. Many times after a plug is dug an animal will smell the fresh dirt and uncover the plug so we get the blame. I won't cut any plugs in grass. I use a screw driver to pop the coins out. If it is deeper than my metal probe I leave it there. Sometimes I use my bayonet to probe as it can wedge in a pull tab for levering it out. It also has wedged into nice rings.

    It helps a lot to carry a plastic garbage bag to pick up paper thash too as park managers have allowed me to detect in parks that are closed to detecting. Delivering a pizza to the park office is nice once in awhile for your relations.
    (C) Sandman, 2005. All Rights Reserved.
    "TIME IS THE ONLY THING YOU NEVER GET BACK, WHY WASTE IT SWINGING A DETECTOR THAT ISN'T UP TO THE TASK."

  4. #4

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
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    Re: Why is washington state being so strict on detecting laws?

    although the knee-jerk reaction to such stories, is that "must've been holes left by other md'rs", there is another way this happens:

    New md'rs hear about such things in other states or cities, and wonder "gee, I wonder if there's an rules or prohibitions in my town?". So what do they do? They waltz in to city hall ...... and ask! Sounds logical, right? Afterall, you can't be too safe, right? And what happens if they get a "no", where no real rule exists? If the md'r makes a stink, and says "but where is that written?", he may just end up getting a rule written, "to address his pressing issue". I've seen this happen before!

    In my city, for example, the parks here had simply been detected since the dawn of time, and it was just considered ok. It never dawned on anyone there might be a problem, and no one ever said anything (yup, in full view of parks workers, street traffic, etc...). But then one day a newcomer to our town, perhaps upder the influence of the scary stories in the FMDAC mailers, took it upon himself to go down to city hall, and ask if he could detect in our Central Park. They told him "no". When he circulated this information amongst others in our brick-&-mortar club, you can imagine the confusion it caused, since detecting had simply gone on here, as long as anyone could remember! A few more skittish members, when they heard this, thought "oh no! the parks are off-limits now!! Let's fight this!". And others of us thought "that's nonsense! No one's ever said anything to me, so I'm not going to stop now!". That was over 20 yrs. ago, and to this day, to my knowledge, there are no prohibitions in my town (at least not that are written down specifically). But I can see how if we were to have "fought" this, it would not be inconceivable for them to simply put it in writing "to address our issue". And sure, they might have said "because of holes". But the reality is, it probably had nothing to do with holes, but everything to do with squeeky wheels asking for sanction.

    Not saying this is the reason for every time a city comes up with such verbage, but I am saying it is one of the reasons. Ie.: sometimes no one cares, UNTIL you ask. And oddly, it's news stories and posts like this, that will only perpetuate this cycle, because the more scary stories and citations people read, the more they run down to city hall to ask, thus only perpetuating the cycle even more :P

  5. #5

    Jan 2005
    330
    19 times

    Re: Why is washington state being so strict on detecting laws?

    "But then one day a newcomer to our town, perhaps upder the influence of the scary stories in the FMDAC mailers, took it upon himself to go down to city hall,"

    You just cannot read a post like this without taking a low shot at the FMDAC with the "scary stories" line. Well Tom I would like you to name just one of those "scary stories" in those "mailers". We have been promoting proper etique and also fighting bills and closures around the country. None of which have been caused by any "scary mailers".

    What have you done to help fight any of these closures. have you helped out with the problems in NY City? How about Louisville or Wisconsin? Did you help at all with the bill that shut down gold dredging in your own state last year? How about the Clay County, FL ban last year. The Clean Water Act, 2009 Omnibus Land "grab". Or how about prior years bills in Oregon, KY, Nebraska, WV, VA and GA, AR TX and WA, AL and FL. Yes, all those and more. We have been working to defeat legislation aimed at curtailing the hobby and promote bills preserving and expanding the hobby. And you? Seems all you can do is take cheap shots. You are either part of the solution or part of the problem. Which is it Tom?

  6. #6
    us
    May 2008
    lakelinden mi
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    Re: Why is washington state being so strict on detecting laws?

    Hear in Michigan some state parks are of limit to detecting like fort willkins only Michigan tec student can detect that park if there doing a studie. there a loud to dig.But i went in to pay my water bill and I asked what where the laws in town for M'ding and the maror said, there is none.but be carefull up calumet Mich.part of that town is a historical park.
    I hate to discriminate but some times you have too!

  7. #7

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
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    Re: Why is washington state being so strict on detecting laws?

    Mark, ouch Sorry 'bout that You guys are doing a great job, and any psychological effect furthering the very thing you're "going to bat against", is not your fault. I also do not see a way around this effect. That is: the minute we fight against isolated incidents (as the FMDAC has so effectively done), this requires "rallying support" which entails educating folks about the threats. That entails reporting on off-limits parks, tickets, fines, court-cases, etc.... I agree. There's no way to get around that, if there ever is to be a solidarity. The un-intended consequence (which is no fault of the FMDAC) is what I refer to.

    I still remember when the FMDAC was in its infancy, and our brick & mortor club got the early mailers, once we joined. As each issue was read outloud in our club meetings, you could literally look around the room, at folks who perhaps these things had never crossed their minds, and see the expressions of people thinking "oh no, I certainly don't want to get a ticket" Or "oh no, I certainly hope my city or county or state doesn't enact laws", etc... These are all very rationale reactions, and all very rationale reporting and solidarity rallied by the FMDAC.

    So what I saw happen next, was some of these folks who probably previously never gave the matter thought before, would start checking in with park's dept's, city halls, etc...as they travelled (afterall, you can't be too safe, eh?) Or perhaps even places they'd been detecting already, but just assumed it was ok (not safe to assume things, eh?).

    I know, it's a catch-22, that is not yours, or the FMDAC's fault. The more places get put off-limits (ie.: the more scary stories that circulate), the more persons in other locales go to seek sanctions, clarifications, permissions, etc... leading to more off-limits spots, and on and on the cycle goes. :P I do not see a way around it, because we certainly can't say "let's stop reporting". The best I can think is to educate people to search rules for themselves (rules in any city are usually available on city and park's dept. websites). If it is silent on the issue (doesn't say anything about md'ing), then so be it. Can the FMDAC make a distinction in their future literature on this? I know that ...... at present ..... the code says:

    I WILL ALWAYS CHECK FEDERAL, STATE, COUNTY AND LOCAL LAWS BEFORE SEARCHING. IT IS MY RESPONSIBILITY TO KNOW THE LAW

    It is not a far leap from this, for persons to interpret this that they need permission. Or to the extent they may simply seek to know if there are any prohibitions (ie.: they do not walk in asking "can I metal detect?" but rather walk in asking "are there any prohibitions?" which would seem to put the burden on them to produce an actual rule), a back-fire can result: You can get a desk-clerk to say "we would prefer you didn't" (as if you had been asking permission). And if you counter "but where is that written?", you will get in to a tangle that you will probably loose. And odd thing is, at a lot of those places are places that probably no one would have ever given you second thought (till you asked, or asked for sanction, or tried to get them to sign something, etc....).






  8. #8
    us
    Kerry

    Jan 2009
    Michigan
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    Re: Why is washington state being so strict on detecting laws?

    Washington is strict on everything...

  9. #9
    Charter Member
    us
    Jul 2006
    Florida
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    Re: Why is washington state being so strict on detecting laws?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman
    Once the parks are closed it is very hard to get them open again to detecting. Many times after a plug is dug an animal will smell the fresh dirt and uncover the plug so we get the blame. I won't cut any plugs in grass. I use a screw driver to pop the coins out. If it is deeper than my metal probe I leave it there. Sometimes I use my bayonet to probe as it can wedge in a pull tab for levering it out. It also has wedged into nice rings.

    It helps a lot to carry a plastic garbage bag to pick up paper thash too as park managers have allowed me to detect in parks that are closed to detecting. Delivering a pizza to the park office is nice once in awhile for your relations.
    I am like Sandman here, I rarely ever cut plugs either...... I use the Ez-Dig-er system, although it is no longer made the concept is easy. I use the Detectorpro Uniprobe to locate the exact location, and use the tiny 1 1/4 inch shovel of the Dig-er system to recover it.............
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  10. #10
    us
    Jul 2009
    Whiting, NJ
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    Re: Why is washington state being so strict on detecting laws?

    Quote Originally Posted by Detectingfreak
    So Washingtonian just texted me and told me that Renton, WA parks are all off limits to detecting, and Redmond Parks are all off limits to detecting.

    This is effecting us big time. What are your thoughts?
    Move to a friendlier place and that will leave out New Jersey. OK, New Jersey is great for detecting and the only places off limits are national Parks, other than that, you are good to go. The downside in New Jersey is everything else is out of whack

  11. #11
    us
    Sea'mus King of the Leprechauns

    Jan 2009
    Found under a rock, in Washington State.
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    Re: Why is washington state being so strict on detecting laws?

    Washington has a legislative agenda to be strict on every outdoor use claiming to be enviromentally sensative issue. We are going to have to pay for dredging metal detecting and other things with stiff fees if the parks deparment and fish and wildlife agents get their way. The prospectors are fighting a fee in legislature that if it pass's will cost the dredgers $715 to get a permit to dredge and a site inspection fee that will run into the hundreds of dollars(and that is per dredge site). I know this to be the case because I'm one of those prospectors that they want to stick it to.

    The metal detectorist can't be to far behind that type of action. We're following the Californians with the same types of action down there.
    tinpan likes this.
    Sea'mus King of the Leprechauns

  12. #12
    us
    Jul 2009
    Whiting, NJ
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    Re: Why is washington state being so strict on detecting laws?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamuss
    Washington has a legislative agenda to be strict on every outdoor use claiming to be enviromentally sensative issue. We are going to have to pay for dredging metal detecting and other things with stiff fees if the parks deparment and fish and wildlife agents get their way. The prospectors are fighting a fee in legislature that if it pass's will cost the dredgers $715 to get a permit to dredge and a site inspection fee that will run into the hundreds of dollars(and that is per dredge site). I know this to be the case because I'm one of those prospectors that they want to stick it to.

    The metal detectorist can't be to far behind that type of action. We're following the Californians with the same types of action down there.
    I think you hit the nail on the head with your statement here. Once the state government gets involved in any money making scheme, or legislation, all the other states jump on the bandwagon. Unfortunately our hobby isn't the only pleasure being attacked. Think of the law New York is now trying to push that will tax soda, Lemonade mixes and a host of other consumer products that will burden the public. Once it passes NJ, PA, and other boarder states will be right behind them to draw additional revenues. Before you know it, this type of legislation will run rampart throughout the country. I can guarantee you that over the next few years the list of new taxes will grow faster than your bank account

  13. #13

    Jan 2005
    330
    19 times

    Re: Why is washington state being so strict on detecting laws?

    If you or anyone you know is not registered to vote then get registered. Make sure you and they vote. Give them a ride to the voting booth if necessary. We must vote these bums out on all levels in all parts of the country. I am one of those NY voters who has found it virtually worthless to even bother contacting the legislators, with only one exception, as they don't care what the people think. Don't even get me started on that piece of #@%* schumer.

  14. #14
    us
    Apr 2010
    vancouver. wa. brush prairie / hockinson
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    They should just have us get a permit then when someone does the damage they will know who it is.i have had to get a permit before in a place in Washington state and ore.
    I love dirt fishing. !

  15. #15
    us
    Apr 2012
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    I love everything god gave to Washington, and despise most of man has legislated here.

    Beside Renton, every town has let me detect.

    I use the county parcel viewer to see easements, and I always approach anyone who I think may throw a monkey wrench into my fun, and disarm them verbally and with a huge genuine smile.
    angelito1 and T.C. like this.

 

 
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