NO TRESPASSING signs around public schools. Is this becoming the norm now???

[Tom_in_CA]

All school properties near me are all fenced in now and have no trespassing signs.

So too do the schools in my area have fences (starting in the late 1970s to early 1980s). And the obligatory signs at the permanently propped open gate: "visitors check in at the office", or "no trespassing".

But for some odd reason, this doesn't seem to stop people from still going there for things like jogging the track, shooting hoops, etc.....

 

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[Scrappy]

I don't know your particular area but I doubt you would be trespassing unless you were told to leave and didn't.

I agree with that, but to me it also comes down to not tarnishing the detecting communities rep. If ever challenged I would love to show I have permission.

 

[Scrappy]

Those are all very good points. I'm not defending a position but instead simply stating what I would do, and will do. It may not be correct, but it's certainly not incorrect.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

...... it also comes down to not tarnishing the detecting communities rep......

I don't believe that the mere act of detecting "tarnishes reputation", UNLESS it were an illegal act. But since when is that a premise ? To surmise that detecting "tarnishes", implies that it's somehow wrong, dangerous, damaging, etc... Since when is that a given ?

...... If ever challenged I would love to show I have permission....

So too do all of us desire that. I mean, doh, who WOULDN'T want some name to drop, or paper to show, so that busy-bodies slink away embarassed for having questioned you. Right ? However, the "devil-is-in-the-details". Because in your quest/desire to get that permission, you can often-time simply preclude yourself, from areas that no one ever cared .... UNTIL you asked. Doh !

 

[mikeraydj]

Why do we spend so much time on these forums debating what is legal and what is not. You know the rules, so why do you want to push it? If nobody gets mad what is the fuss? If they don't know it is illegal than who is the wiser? If nobody tells me it is wrong yet I know it is prohibited we are good. What kind of risk are you willing to take over a Sitting liberty, or a mercury dime? Is that what you are all about? The finds over the rules if you don't get caught? Does that make you a great detectorist? Educate me because that was not what I was taught. But maybe the rules have changed. I guess I could rubber stamp this post as it comes up over and over again.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

...... If they don't know it is illegal than who is the wiser? .....

If no one cares.......... then it seems to me ........ NO ONE CARES! Yes my heart bleeds that/if/when no one seems to take notice. Perhaps because no one's asked them? waved flags? made it a pressing issue ? etc...

I am having trouble understanding why someone would argue with a place where no one cares ?

 

[gleaner1]

Thank god that schools are posted against trespassers and the like, like weirdo metal detector dudes like me and kemper. Like, you know, like.

 

[TrpnBils]

Interesting discussion. I don't hunt schools but I do hunt around libraries. I always thought it was free game but now I wonder. I was never stopped by the cops and they have gone by about 100 times.t

Then I'd say you're fine at those places at least where the cops have outright seen you and done nothing...they must not think you're doing anything wrong and that's what counts. You're at least the second person here who's mentioned libraries, which I find interesting....I never would have thought about them being anything other than an off-limits private place you'd have to ask permission at like you would somebody's house or business.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... where the cops have outright seen you and done nothing...they must not think you're doing anything wrong and that's what counts......

Interesting that you say what I've emphasized above. It's giving weight to the argument that if there's a given place where no one cares (even in full view of authorities), then...... well ..... obviously nothing is wrong. Because *certainly* if something were wrong, then those cops (or rangers or whomever) would have booted you by now, RIGHT ? So is that our standard of where it's ok to hunt ? I say yes.

 

[mikeraydj]

The only problem I see is that ethics seem to erode. If there is no line in the sand. Well no one cares if I detect parks even if it is prohibited. Hey what about that piece of private property that I see everyday on my way home from work? No guts no glory. That cemetery looks pretty good, who's the wiser if I detect it late at night? It's all about the finds and who is most productive. Then we don't understand when the places we can legally hunt get shut down. That owners of private property don't want us on their land because our reputation proceeds us. And we get portrayed in the media as greedy lazy people who would take the necklace off your neck rather than get a job. Also why is this one of the topics that comes up so frequently if it is a no brainer? Sometimes I think people ask it so they can get the blessing from the detector community when they already know their actions are questionable. Again I ask what is your price for your honesty? A seated liberty? A $20 gold piece? How much is you integrity worth? The last time I commented on this topic I got a 2 week time out. I am ready to put my nose in the corner.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Just because one police officer doesn't say anything doesn't meant there are no laws or regulations against it, if there are laws or regulations it just means one officer either wasn't paying a attention or didn't remember the law...... Police see you speeding and don't stop you doesn't mean you weren't breaking the law, it just means you weren't caught.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

The only problem I see is that ethics seem to erode. If there is no line in the sand. Well no one cares if I detect parks even if it is prohibited....

Mike, I think you're mixing topics. If a park is prohibited (as you say here), then BY ALL MEANS obey laws where md'ing is specifically prohibited. Because yes: to do otherwise would be "eroding ethics". However, that's not the topic here. No one here is suggesting to break the law.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Just because one police officer doesn't say anything doesn't meant there are no laws or regulations against it, if there are laws or regulations it just means one officer either wasn't paying a attention or didn't remember the law.......

Yes: It's entirely possible that passing cops, rangers, etc... "just weren't wise" to some minutia in the law. And that a generation of md'rs were/are "just getting lucky". Sure, but is that the realistic observation ? No.

Example: if you're walking through central park in New York, you come upon a large pond, where scores of people engage in the past time of RC controlled miniature boats. You learn that this is an every weekend scene, for decades now. You think to yourself: "Gee that looks like fun. I have a toy RC control boat at home, so I think I'll join all these folks next week". Notice that it NEVER WOULD CROSS YOUR MIND : "Gee, I wonder if this is legal?". Why? Because subconsciously, you assume it must be ok, if all these other people are doing it.

So too is the same psychology played over and over on md'ing forum: Someone is going to travel to a certain area (beach, park , state, city, etc...) and inquires ahead : "Is md'ing allowed at such & such spot?". Notice what often happens next: Locals in that area chime in on the thread and say "sure, we detect there all the time, come and join when you travel through", etc.... However, notice, the person answering in that fashion did NOT say: "I asked permission, and was given the green light". Instead, that person answering was probably just going where his mentors before him went (why would he question that?). In the same way as the toy boat people in NY central park (why would anyone question that?)

So on the one hand, you're technically right that just because a place is routinely detected, and no one's ever cared, does NOT mean that you could possibly find someone there to say "no", or dis-like it, etc.... Yet *realistically*, we all subconsciously make our decisions based on what we see as normal, via our eyes looking at every-day-events.

 

[G.I.B.]

You won't know if it is prohibited unless you know the law.

That's why they write in on a sign and post it all over the place. (as in the voice of Jeff Foxworthy- HERE"S YOUR SIGN)

What is so hard about asking for permission?

Florida law is pretty specific. Thump your chest and holler 'public property, I pay taxes' all you want. They have subsection (4).

As written in the law, other authorization, is simply getting permission.

Just because people are using the school grounds without getting pepper sprayed does not make it legal. It makes it common sense in the spirit of the law and reasonable judgement being made by the officer.

To test the law just tell the cop he is stupid and can't do anything because you pay taxes, pay his salary and have rights... Let us all know how that works out for ya...

810.097 Trespass upon grounds or facilities of a school; penalties; arrest.—(1) Any person who, Does not have legitimate business on the campus or any other authorization, license, or invitation to enter or remain upon school property; or
(b) Is a student currently under suspension or expulsion;
and who enters or remains upon the campus or any other facility owned by any such school commits a trespass upon the grounds of a school facility and is guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

(4) Any law enforcement officer may arrest either on or off the premises and without warrant any person the officer has probable cause for believing has committed the offense of trespass upon the grounds of a school facility. Such arrest shall not render the law enforcement officer criminally or civilly liable for false arrest, false imprisonment, or unlawful detention.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

G.I.B., is the question you ask "what's so hard about asking for permission?" directed at just the O.P. here for schools? Where fences exist, and obligatory signs? Then *technically*, you would be right. There's not getting around technicalities of signs like "visitors check in at office", or worse yet: "no trespassing".

Thus technically, you would be right. But realistically, if we're talking about a school where the gate is permanently propped open, and the school yard is simply the defacto weekend ball-game site (or jogging the tracks, shooting hoops, dog-walkers, etc...), then what ? Oh sure, you and I can treat ourselves as different than all those folks. Sure, ask away.

 

[lookindown]

The only problem I see is that ethics seem to erode. If there is no line in the sand. Well no one cares if I detect parks even if it is prohibited. Hey what about that piece of private property that I see everyday on my way home from work? No guts no glory. That cemetery looks pretty good, who's the wiser if I detect it late at night? It's all about the finds and who is most productive. Then we don't understand when the places we can legally hunt get shut down. That owners of private property don't want us on their land because our reputation proceeds us. And we get portrayed in the media as greedy lazy people who would take the necklace off your neck rather than get a job. Also why is this one of the topics that comes up so frequently if it is a no brainer? Sometimes I think people ask it so they can get the blessing from the detector community when they already know their actions are questionable. Again I ask what is your price for your honesty? A seated liberty? A $20 gold piece? How much is you integrity worth? The last time I commented on this topic I got a 2 week time out. I am ready to put my nose in the corner.

You seem pretty passionate about doing the right thing...answer this one question...have you ever went over the posted speed limit while driving?

 

[G.I.B.]

My dribble is directed at general information. (and I'm allowed to quote previous posts, just as you did)

Take from it what you will, or discount each point. It doesn't change my life one iota. Just passing along info, with a smattering of opinion.

My point- in other words-

Most police just ignore the weekend folks doing normal safe activities. Everything from dog's to frisbee tossing and MD'ing. They do have the law for people causing a problem. It's called selective enforcement.

If there is a question, just ask for permission. If you don't want to- I don't care, don't. My problem is when people spout off inaccurate information that someone new to the hobby may take as 'valid advice'. My advice is simply displaying the law. I didn't write it, just passing it on, and it's a Florida law. Other states are different.

Common sense would dictate a little research into the local laws.

I regularly hunt a large field that is owned by a school. Everyone uses the field. R/C quadcopters, dog's, ball games--- just about everything. Nobody says anything, and we all come in past the 'No Trespassing' sign. The only time the police enforce the sign is usually at night when vehicles are parked way in the back and they are generally doing something wrong or some moron doing donuts in his muffler-less crap pick up truck.

The other time they would enforce the sign is when you poke him in the chest and tell him all about your tax paying rights to public property.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

...... Everyone uses the field. R/C quadcopters, dog's, ball games--- just about everything. Nobody says anything, and we all come in past the 'No Trespassing' sign. The only time the police enforce the sign is usually at night when vehicles are parked way in the back and they are generally doing something wrong or some moron doing donuts in his muffler-less crap pick up truck. ...

I am shocked.

 

[G.I.B.]

Don't be shocked. I take calculated risks. I push limits and walk on the fence too.

We all are responsible for our own actions. I just don't want some new guy thinking he's exempt from the trespassing laws when he's not.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

reply

Don't be shocked. I take calculated risks. I push limits and walk on the fence too....

If you saw multiple other persons in the school yard, on a Saturday, doing whatever (jog, walk, hoops, etc...), I don't think that's much of a "calculated risk". But sure. Each place could be different. I suppose there's other schools which are locked up like Ft. Knox , and someone gets bent out of shape, truly enforces or cares about the sign, etc....

So yes, I can see it both ways.