Update / Finders Keepers take on the FBI and DCNR in court

[GopherDaGold]

I am what my name is.

We know. You remind us constantly.

 

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[Honest Samuel]

Being Honest, I always have writing contracts and pay all Connecticut and federal income taxes. I have to remind you all because some of forget and many are not honest and do not pay state and federal income taxes and off to jail you may go. Thanks for your support.

 

[FinderKeeper]

If Dennis many lawyers had firm written contracts with the state and federal government, there were no lawsuits, now comes the lawyers too late. I do not know any treasures hunters that does no contract, I always do.The federal government have tons of tax payers money. I had asked Dennis why his lawyer refused to do contracts, no response.

DCNR could not make a deal, it was Union Gold and it belonged to the Feds. We had a deal with the Feds but when they say nothing was found, we get a % of nothing. We have to prove what they took then we can fight for our %.

 

[1320]

On October 26, 2018, Petitioner appealed DCNR's denial of his records request to OOR. ( Id. at R.2.) In response to the appeal, DCNR provided to OOR an affidavit of DCNR's Chief Counsel, Audrey Feinman Miner (Chief Counsel), dated November 7, 2018. In the affidavit, the Chief Counsel states that on March 12, 2018, she was personally served with the Order, which concerned "a pending federal criminal investigation (Investigation) by the [FBI] and the United States Attorney's Office for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania" (U.S. Attorney's Office), which contained the words "Filed Under Seal." ( Id. at R.33.) According to the affidavit, U.S. Attorney Newton and other federal officials informed the Chief Counsel at that time that "all conversations and communication concerning the Investigation were confidential pursuant to the . . . Order."

Note "a pending federal criminal investigation". Obviously nothing at Dent's Run was criminal based on what I've seen and heard. It's another case....

 

[FinderKeeper]

On October 26, 2018, Petitioner appealed DCNR's denial of his records request to OOR. ( Id. at R.2.) In response to the appeal, DCNR provided to OOR an affidavit of DCNR's Chief Counsel, Audrey Feinman Miner (Chief Counsel), dated November 7, 2018. In the affidavit, the Chief Counsel states that on March 12, 2018, she was personally served with the Order, which concerned "a pending federal criminal investigation (Investigation) by the [FBI] and the United States Attorney's Office for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania" (U.S. Attorney's Office), which contained the words "Filed Under Seal." ( Id. at R.33.) According to the affidavit, U.S. Attorney Newton and other federal officials informed the Chief Counsel at that time that "all conversations and communication concerning the Investigation were confidential pursuant to the . . . Order."

Note "a pending federal criminal investigation". Obviously nothing at Dent's Run was criminal based on what I've seen and heard. It's another case....

That's what I been saying, but I can not talk about it YET. In the FBI files it says there is a main file and a sub file. The sub file is about the investigation we asked for.

 

[Honest Samuel]

I love Subs when I had teeth.

 

[FinderKeeper]

That's what I been saying, but I can not talk about it YET. In the FBI files it says there is a main file and a sub file. The sub file is about the investigation we asked for. As I said employees of the state did things that we wanted the FBI to check out. I would like nothing better than the FBI to come out with a statement and tell what they found at the site and what did they find out in their investigation. I would never trust them again or work with them again but it would make them look better to the public.

 

[Honest Samuel]

Good luck in trusting the FBI.

 

[Honest Samuel]

DCNR could not make a deal, it was Union Gold and it belonged to the Feds. We had a deal with the Feds but when they say nothing was found, we get a % of nothing. We have to prove what they took then we can fight for our %.

Was the deal in writing?

 

[Deep1]

Was the deal in writing?

It doesn't matter if was in writing, in stone or in imagination.
The fbi claims they found nothing.
So, regardless of any kind of "contract".
100% of zero is zero.

However, I do have some questions for FK.

"it was Union Gold and it belonged to the Feds"

The feds is a vague term, are you referring to the fbi, when say you made a deal with the feds?
What agency did you make the deal with ?
I've never heard of the fbi getting involved in negotiating for treasure.
Who did you make the deal with? By name.
Was the deal made in person or by electronic means? Phone, email?
Was it recorded in writing, electronically or on audio?

 

[FinderKeeper]

It doesn't matter if was in writing, in stone or in imagination.
The fbi claims they found nothing.
So, regardless of any kind of "contract".
100% of zero is zero.

However, I do have some questions for FK.

"it was Union Gold and it belonged to the Feds" Some of it was Union Gold

The feds is a vague term, are you referring to the fbi, when say you made a deal with the feds? Yes
What agency did you make the deal with ? This was the branch of FBI that recovers paintings, antiques, jewery, any thing major . This was not the FBI you see on TV. But when the dig happened , they had FBI agents from all over the US and they were ready to shoot. These were the ones you would expect to see when something big was going on.
I've never heard of the fbi getting involved in negotiating for treasure. We talked about what % a finder would get if it was not Union Gold and that we would have to go to Federal Court to find out what was found and it would be up to them to decide what we would get.
Who did you make the deal with? By name. No this I will not give out yet. Was the deal made in person or by electronic means? Phone, email? Video in FBI office
Was it recorded in writing, electronically or on audio?

Video

After the meeting in the FBI office we were told if it was Union Gold we could get from 10% up to 50%, if it was Confederate Gold , we could get 50% of it. if it was Spanish Gold we would own it all 100%.

 

[: Michael-Robert.]

Wow! Just wow.... Congrats!

 

[NewAge]

So if it was Spanish gold the land owner whose property had to be dug up would get nothing at all?

I sure hope no one ever claims there are gold bars on my property ....I'd hate to have the FBI come in and dig holes and I would get absolutely nothing in return if it turned out to be Spanish treasure.

Something is amiss here......either your facts or the FBI fed you a bunch of BS and you and your lawyer ate it up.
The FBI does have a long history of tricking people who are not very well versed in legalities into signing or doing what the FBI wants them to.

 

[FinderKeeper]

So if it was Spanish gold the land owner whose property had to be dug up would get nothing at all?

I sure hope no one ever claims there are gold bars on my property ....I'd hate to have the FBI come in and dig holes and I would get absolutely nothing in return if it turned out to be Spanish treasure.

Something is amiss here......either your facts or the FBI fed you a bunch of BS and you and your lawyer ate it up.
The FBI does have a long history of tricking people who are not very well versed in legalities into signing or doing what the FBI wants them to.

OK you are right, I made a mistake . Ya the land owner would get 50% and the finder 50% . My Bad. I got ahead of what I was saying. I meant to say Spain could not file to claim it, If Spanish treasure was found in the ocean then Yes they would own it but no Spanish Treasure found on land would fall under a law for them to claim it. We were told if its Spanish Treasure we would be the owners and ya DCNR could get a %.

 

[Carl-NC]

FK, I'm gonna offer my assessment of your situation, which may sound a bit harsh but it's 100% honest. I'll preface it by saying that my profession is in designing treasure hunting equipment and I have a Master's in EE.

First, the GPL device you have is a piece of junk. It cannot do any serious resistivity analysis and the meter markings are completely meaningless. I own an equivalent device from Accurate Locators (exact same design) and I've tested it. Would never use it to try and find anything except maybe a big shallow tunnel, and even then I wouldn't trust it. I've never heard of a single person using one of these devices that was ever successful with it.

Second, dowsing & LRLs don't work. Period. Dowsers & LRL users passionately disagree with me on this, yet no one has ever successfully shown me, in even the simplest test, that any of it works. And dowsers/LRL users generally have a pathetic track record. I've been studying this for 21 years and I own 40 or so LRLs plus a bunch of dowsing stuff. The vast majority of LRLs look like they were designed and built by a child, very amateurish. No serious metal detector or geophysics company messes with this stuff. In just 2 hours with me you could easily show me that I'm right.

Third, I don't know what you've been told about gravimetry but it cannot distinguish what causes gravity anomalies. If you were told that Enviroscan's measurements determined buried gold, then you were fed a big pile. Like resistivity, you can measure anomalies, but can't determine the cause of the anomalies.

In the few threads I've read about your endeavor, I'm not seeing any results that resemble legitimate. If that's all you had, I'd have to guess that likely nothing was there. I agree that the behavior of the FBI appears bizarre and possibly scandalous, but it also sounds like there's a whole lot of missing information. If you do manage to drag the FBI to court and you go armed with dowsing & LRL results, your day in court may end up being minutes in court. No one is going to take it seriously.

I suspect you'll dismiss my assessment and forge ahead. Serious consideration for what I'm telling you could be the best bargain in education you'll find anywhere. Ignoring it will also result in an education, but it'll be the painful way to get it.

FK, I see you've chosen the painful education. I hope you are keeping close track of all your expenses, including time. It's a good way to measure the pain.

 

[FinderKeeper]

FK, I see you've chosen the painful education. I hope you are keeping close track of all your expenses, including time. It's a good way to measure the pain.

Hay we wanted to see how DCNR and the FBI works with Treasure Hunters on found treasures and now we know. We have many other treasure sites ready to dig at in the states and in Canada and some could be bigger than Dents Run. We plan to be around a long time and the info we get from this will help us with our other sites when we dig. We had 13yrs to plan what way to go with Dents Run and we did things the way we wanted to protect our interest. The only other way to go was to dig up the 9 tons of gold and RUN, not something we wanted to do. Run for the rest of our lives. No Way. Our job is to find treasure and see it goes back to the owner or the money goes to doing something good. We want a % of it to keep our company going for more finds. Most of what we find will go into Trust Funds to help people. Our lawyer is doing a great job beating the FBI and DCNR in court and he will get better at this when we do our next dig soon. How many treasure hunters take on the FBI and DCNR and win . Not many. We will get our day in Federal Court and we will win. People will be talking about this story for many years. We have offers from movie companys , books offers and TV so the education you talk about has all ready paid off. Thank You for the info.​

 

[Carl-NC]

FK, I've been around LRL people for 20 years now, and there are two incredibly consistent themes with them. One: they have found lots of fabulous treasures. Two: they never recover any of it. Knowing that LRLs don't actually work and that the results they think they get are an act of self-delusion, these outcomes are perfectly consistent with reality.

So, has your group ever recovered anything? Or do you just run around pretending to find treasures, and then complain that you can't recover any of them? It's sounding very familiar.

 

[FinderKeeper]

FK, I've been around LRL people for 20 years now, and there are two incredibly consistent themes with them. One: they have found lots of fabulous treasures. Two: they never recover any of it. Knowing that LRLs don't actually work and that the results they think they get are an act of self-delusion, these outcomes are perfectly consistent with reality.

So, has your group ever recovered anything? Or do you just run around pretending to find treasures, and then complain that you can't recover any of them? It's sounding very familiar.

Why do you bring up LRL's all the time, we use everything that is out there. LRL is just one tool we use but before we dig or file a claim we make sure we have 4 readings of what's in the ground from 4 different tools of the trade. I would not spend thousands of dollars on a dig if I was not 100% sure of what's there. Hay the FBI brought in a crew and they said there was more gold than what I reported. I know what I am doing , the bigger question is do you know how to run the equipment you own.


Treasure Hunting equipment is only good if the person knows how to run it. It takes years to know how to locate treasure. I been on sites were other hunters tried their equipment and found nothing then we come in and find what they were looking for. Its not just the equipment they use , you have to know what in down under that counts. What is in the soil, is there water, or voids. Minerals and iron and clay can hide treasures to. So if anyone takes a detector or LRL or GPL or Radar they should core drill the site and run test to have a better Idea why the equipment is doing what it does. It may say nothing is there and yet treasure is there. You have to keep a open mind and try everything before you give up a site.

 

[NewAge]

We were told if its Spanish Treasure we would be the owners and ya DCNR could get a %.

The FBI told you this?.....see my above comment about how the FBI manipulates people to their advantage when they dont fully understand the legal aspects of their situation.The FBI or local /state police will also tell people if they just confess to the crime they are being implicated in it will be better for them.....it often isnt.

Even if something was found which there wasnt......... but let's pretend there was for now.Here is my take on what would happen.

Without a bond describing the work to be done and items/material or minerals to be extracted or a written contract with the land owner I'm not sure any of it would be yours.
You didnt dig it up the FBI did.....DCNR owns the property and I can say with almost 100% certainty you would have no legal standing to anything at all removed from Dents Run.

Also a huge factor that would come into play in any court battle over any found gold would be your refusal to performance bond the site.It doesn't matter why you didnt want to post a bond.Anyone wanting to do any type of work involving earth removal or reshaping on DCNR property must post a performance bond.You guys had that chance .....refused and that has turned out to be a colossal mistake.

It will be near impossible to convince a judge or jury that you guys should get a chuck of something found when you had a chance to recover it yourself but choose not to go thru the little bit of red tape in order to do that.

Had you bonded the site you would have had total control over the dig....not regulated to sitting in your car while others dug the site.

To sum this all up I have no doubt the FBI misled you about the % of a find you may get ....if it was Spanish it isnt even theirs to give away in the first place.Was your lawyer involved in your decision to take the FBI word over a finders fee to something that is not even theirs to give away?

 

[Carl-NC]

Why do you bring up LRL's all the time, we use everything that is out there. LRL is just one tool we use but before we dig or file a claim we make sure we have 4 readings of what's in the ground from 4 different tools of the trade.

I bring it up because 3 of the tools you list in your profile -- GPL, dowsing rods, and LRLs -- ain't worth squat, no matter how you use them. If you don't understand that, and it seems you don't, then you will continue "finding" treasure without ever actually finding treasure. I design treasure hunting equipment for a living, I know what I'm talking about.

The question still stands: Has your group ever recovered a treasure? You certainly don't have to answer, and it won't lower my opinion of your claims if you don't. But if you haven't, you might want to look beyond the usual alibis & excuses and consider that maybe you're doing something wrong.