Looking to go out west for a while and maybe buy a couple of claims. Placers if possi

[Foothills Gold]

Thanks for any help guys

 

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[DizzyDigger]

Doug, I think the best advice you could get has been given..

Research, more research and then sample til your hands bleed..

Also, you can always edit a post to add more to it...beats posting one liners
a minute apart...lol

 

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[Goldwasher]

learn the claims process forward and backwards even if you are going to buy one. it is the only way to make sure you on't get screwed.

A member here could chime in and give details of the issues he is having from buying a claim sold by a flipper mentioned here! A claim located and sold solely for profit is not a valid claim. beware of claims located and sold the first year. Beware looking someone up and seeing they do that several times a year.

As far as value keep in mind a claim is really only worth its filing fee's, if that. Until it is hopefully perfected or at least comes with a drill or accurate sampling program report. Don't fall for the hype of facts given such as "this area was mine from 18## to 1933 blah blah blah, and the old timers lost 50% or more horsepucky...horsepucky....horsepucky" The only thing that actually increases a claims value is the valuable minerals on it. Historic statements and good camping do not!

You need to know how to check on the claims filing at the county MOST important and BLM ALSO important. Claim flippers are shady and they typically make filing "mistakes" The one bought by a fella here never had a location monument and had a filing mistake on top of the fact that the maintenance fees for the first year was filed on the last possible day and was obviously back dated which is also a huge no no. Luckily some research brought these issues to light before it was too late to rectify.

This is not a knock on the buyer as he is a great guy. But, if he had known how to research he would have noticed three red flags. If you research the seller you will have to buy a new bulk pack of red flag markers.

Claim flippers bank on people having money to buy and little knowledge of the claims process or mining law. They know it "seems" confusing and difficult to locate a mining claim. Finding good open ground is the most difficult part and even that isn't all that hard.

You don't have to worry about one of the shadiest because your not coming to California. Stay away from ebay flippers....and avoid the worst of them Goldrushexpeditions. They have the most overpriced ready to get you into surface management issue claims there are.

A mining claim is a claim on minerals the buildings on top are not owned by you. G.R.E like to make you believe that you are 'Buying a mine" they sell mines with many levels and use the last historical name for info and increase in perceived value. They give the impression that you can put in a little work and just take over where the "old timers" left off. It's gross.



DO NOT BUY MINING CLAIMS!!!!

 

[bcfromfl]

I'm blown away by all the awesome info in this thread! I've thought about this myself...if I ever find a spot that proves worthy, going through the steps to file a claim. However, in all the reading I've done, the best I've found lists the paperwork steps and deadlines to meet. (The Small Miner's Waiver is meant to be helpful to small recreational guys, but adds a layer of complexity and has me scratching my head!) Reading here outlines a whole bunch more, and suggests other things that *should* be done in terms of due diligence, marking boundaries, etc. Does anyone know of a book or website that has everything together in one place, for us complete newbs?

But after doing more thinking about all this, I wonder if filing a claim puts a big red target on a map for highgraders? If you can't be near your claim to check it out regularly, maybe you're better off leaving a discovery unclaimed, and just taking your chances?

I wish all the miners out there were as honest and helpful as the members of TNet!

-Bruce

 

[goldenIrishman]

Well Doug, you've gotten a lot of good information to work with here so far and here's my 2 cents.

Research is going to be your best friend on this little adventure. The MyLandMatters.Org site is one that you will WANT to learn inside and out. As stated before it's worth the web servers it's stored on weight in gold. CLay and his team have done a fantastic job of making all the information you need easy to find and use. I've almost been living on that site since before it went public and I'm STILL finding new stuff all the time. There are still a few sections that are a little sparse but a site this big takes a lot of time and work to fill out. Clay is one of the good guys and has helped me and many others up their game when it comes to finding good gold.

One thing that no one here has mentioned yet are claim listings on Craigs list and E-Bay. My advice is to read them only if you want a good laugh as 99.999% of them are bogus as a $3 bill. If you want to buy, the only place I'd suggest looking would be the classifieds in the ICMJ Mining Journal. Even then, don't lay down any money until you've actually seen and tested the property for yourself. DO NOT test where the current owner suggests! Areas can be "Salted" to make them look great when the rest of the area is devoid of gold. If the current claim holder won't allow you to test when and where you want, don't walk away....RUN!!!!!!

A trip to the local county offices will also tell you a lot about a claim. Most county registrars offices will have a computer you can use to look things up and the office staff will show you how to use their system. Most of the time it's free to use, but if you want print outs they will charge you about $1 a page. When you're there, it's also a good idea to check out all the claims in that area. Look for when they were filed and how long they've been held by the same person(s). Any smart person is not going to hang onto a worthless piece of ground as it's nothing more than a drain on the wallet, UNLESS they're planning in running a scam of some sort. Like others have said before, if the original filing was within the last year, there's a good chance that it's a claim flipper in action. If you find one like that, ask the seller WHY they're getting rid of the claim so soon. There are some people that are honest, but circumstances of life rear their head and force a person to get rid of a claim.

So.... Do your research, check everything out two or three times, ask questions here and remember that if it looks to be too good to be true, it usually is!!! I'm sure that everyone here on T-Net only wishes you well in this adventure and want to see you find a place that you can be happy with.

BTW..... Here in Mohave County, AZ we have an excellent staff at the recorders office and it's mostly BLM land so there's no Forest Circus to have to deal with... Just saying. I'd be happy to show you around if you decide to pop in here.

 

[kcm]

As far as value keep in mind a claim is really only worth its filing fee's, if that. Until it is hopefully perfected or at least comes with a drill or accurate sampling program report. Don't fall for the hype of facts given such as "this area was mine from 18## to 1933 blah blah blah, and the old timers lost 50% or more horsepucky...horsepucky....horsepucky" The only thing that actually increases a claims value is the valuable minerals on it. Historic statements and good camping do not!

A couple things to keep in mind here. You're gonna be dealing with people who want to get rid of a claim - preferably at a profit. If this person is a flipper and has been through the routine enough times, he/she will seem like your best and most-trusted friend. They may show you drill holes, but give you false paperwork on those holes. Drill holes "normally" increase the value of a valid claim. So research the driller - contact the driller and ask questions. See if they still have a copy of the original reports that you can look at or purchase.

Also, here's another little something I thought about while reading. Don't know if this has ever happened, but if things ever felt even the slightest bit suspicious on a claim with drill holes, I'd take a weighted string (think rod and reel) and drop it down a few of the holes, just to see how deep they are. It really wouldn't be that difficult to drill LOTS of holes that go only 8'-10', then throw in a bogus report. ...I realize I may be giving ideas to the bad guys, but am "hoping" that suggesting this now would be pro-active on our side. In any case, just one more way you can cover your butt.

Lots of active mines shut down for WWII and never re-opened. But keep in mind, that was a long time ago and many, MANY folks have done research and have found many of these lost gems. There may still be a few out there, but your best chance would be to go with a claim that has had a more recent history of "something" or, better yet, just prospect around and find your own spot. If you're not looking to get rich, there are many locations around.

Most county registrars offices will have a computer you can use to look things up and the office staff will show you how to use their system. Most of the time it's free to use, but if you want print outs they will charge you about $1 a page.

Here's a tip - if you have a smart phone with decent camera, you can take pics of each screen without additional charge. Guess it depends on the setup there. I doubt that's something the office would be in favor of, yet they still might allow it.

 

[kcm]

I'm blown away by all the awesome info in this thread! I've thought about this myself...if I ever find a spot that proves worthy, going through the steps to file a claim. However, in all the reading I've done, the best I've found lists the paperwork steps and deadlines to meet. (The Small Miner's Waiver is meant to be helpful to small recreational guys, but adds a layer of complexity and has me scratching my head!) Reading here outlines a whole bunch more, and suggests other things that *should* be done in terms of due diligence, marking boundaries, etc. Does anyone know of a book or website that has everything together in one place, for us complete newbs?

But after doing more thinking about all this, I wonder if filing a claim puts a big red target on a map for highgraders? If you can't be near your claim to check it out regularly, maybe you're better off leaving a discovery unclaimed, and just taking your chances?

I wish all the miners out there were as honest and helpful as the members of TNet!

-Bruce

Thanks for throwing this in Bruce. Yes, many folks (historically speaking) have found and worked a claim without any paperwork, reporting, fees, etc. They were wrong to do so. ...At least in modern times - don't know what life was like before my time on Earth.

Having a valid claim gives you specific rights. It also protects your claim from someone else being able to come on and work your claim...ok, it's "supposed" to keep others off your claim. True, there are some folks who just don't care. Likewise, there are companies out there who have thousands of acres of claims that have been sitting idle for years and years. Why? Because the claims are good and the minerals are there, but maybe they're waiting for PM prices to get high enough to make mining profitable, or waiting for newer, better technology in order to access the minerals. Yet they're paying fees on these claims all the time. Eventually, they may be forced to reconsider some of these claims and then let some go. That doesn't mean it's a sunny day for a prospective buyer. If one company didn't feel they could mine a claim with enough profit, then you need to really crunch the numbers and figure out if you can do it with lower overhead.

Anyway, back to Bruce's post - which is why I replied separately: There's not a lot stopping you from working land without a valid claim. Just keep in mind that it's your neck...and that could mean literally! The bad guys nowdays often use drone aircraft to follow folks to their claim without them knowing, then they'll come back and steal equipment. But if they find that a claim was never made, they might well make a claim just to lock you out, then try to sell it back to you. And you know what? They would be 100% within their legal right to do so.

You can have your suspicions about the legal aspect of things, but I highly advise to lose it. It is MUCH more advantageous to have that tiny target on your back with everything that comes with it, than to take the risks of going it alone, IMO.

...If you'll notice, I haven't said anything about someone coming in and working your claim when you're not there. Claim security will be YOUR concern. Just like protecting your home or car, claims security is YOUR responsibility. There's always a chance that someone could come in and work it when you're away. Just as there's always a chance that you could be in an auto accident next time you go to town, or that you could slip in the bathtub and hurt yourself. Risks are a part of this. This new world we live in wants to take all the risk out of the life-equation - other than things like rock climbing, skydiving, racing....anything with solid risks. If you're not willing to accept what risks are there, best not to get involved. It may be a headache to take someone to court for violating your claim, but at least we still have that option in this country. Most places on the globe do not.

I've read several stories about people who have had their equipment stolen - in one instance, the equipment was in a lighted, secured and fenced lot. Yet someone broke in, hot wired the excavator to move it, then stole the nice, new trommel. That hits really hard on a small scale miner!! We have the most to lose, as it hurts more when someone does such things. But the bad guys? They get their kicks from it!

Accept this post for what you will.

 

[bcfromfl]

Thanks, kcm, for all your recommendations and experience! So much to know, so much to know...

 

[Craigwac]

Seems to me that desert placer mines without a good water supply could be profitable, since the old timers wouldn't have been able to mine them. I've seen plenty of youtube videos of big nuggets found metal detecting dry gulches outside of Phoenix. If people are finding them in the top 12" or so, I'm sure there's more underneath. It's a great place to live, and when you get hot in the summer just drive a couple of hours North and it'll be 20 degrees or more cooler.

 

[kcm]

Seems to me that desert placer mines without a good water supply could be profitable, since the old timers wouldn't have been able to mine them. I've seen plenty of youtube videos of big nuggets found metal detecting dry gulches outside of Phoenix. If people are finding them in the top 12" or so, I'm sure there's more underneath. It's a great place to live, and when you get hot in the summer just drive a couple of hours North and it'll be 20 degrees or more cooler.

There were many prospectors of yesteryear that worked dry areas. Many used something like a rocker box. I don't know how efficient they were, but it was done. Obviously there is still much gold to find!

 

[Clay Diggins]

A little free education for those who don't have the experience or knowledge yet to find and locate their own claim.

Without a verifiable proof of discovery a 20 acre placer claim is worth approximately $260.

Coincidentally that amount is equal to the $212 filing fee plus the costs of stakes and County Recording to make your own claim. He's a simple fact for you - the vast majority of claims have exactly zero (none) gold. Most claims weren't even made for gold deposits.

A group like GRE (Gold Rush Expeditions) will gladly sell you a small 20 acre lode claim (on sale now for only $21,000) made on a former lead prospect. They claim you could mine gold there but with just a little investigation on Land Matters I see that they actually have two lode claims there by the same name - both located in November of last year and those are the only claims for miles around. Why? because those claims are made on a minor lead deposit (not gold) and there is no profit in mining lead. No profit lead mineralization = no mining claims.

Notice that location date? The lead claim they would like you to believe has free milling gold on it is nearly 11,000 feet high in a remote area of the Rocky Mountains. "Road" access is through private property.

How much sampling do you think they did on those two lode claims while filming their commercial at 11,000 foot elevation in mid November? Do you think they really accomplished a 10 foot deep shaft, trench or adit as is required to make a lode claim in Colorado?

I found all of that out in about 15 minutes but you know what - someone is going to buy GRE's story whole hog and negotiate a great deal on that claim for about $20,000! Yep and GRE do that same stupid monkey dance about 400 times a year. And here is a little secret - no one at GRE is a miner or even knows how to sample or mine the claims they sell.

I could give you a list of a half dozen people in every mining state that are doing the same thing as GRE but I won't bother because you can look them up on Craigslist, eBay and ICMJ. The plain fact of the matter is a good paying claim isn't going to be for sale for less than the value of the minerals minus the cost of production.

I have a friend here in Arizona who mines with 3 partners. They've got about 3 million tied up in equipment and infrastructure and their claim produces about 4 - 5 pounds of gold every three days that all four of them are mining. They make a profit and have for the last 7 years working part time. You want to know how much they would sell their claim for? Not going to happen - their children and grandchildren will still be mining that deposit in 50 years. You couldn't offer enough money to get them to sell. When you own your own "Bank" full of gold money you would be foolish to sell it for paper money. Miner's who have done the research and work to find good paying ground are not foolish.

On the other hand you could find plenty of other part time miners who break even most months but had a good month a few years ago who would sell you their claim for "only" $15,000 but only if they have gotten tired of wearing themselves out in hopes of someday doing better than breaking even. I could hook you up with a few dozen of those claims with good road access, flat camping area and some beat up equipment thrown in to the deal. The claim owners would walk away with a profit for the first time since they made the claim and you could spend your last days beating up rock, your equipment and your body hoping the "big one" is just a few yards away. There are lots of almost break even prospects out there.

Even more common are the $1,500 to $5,000 claims that have never even paid enough to cover costs. Those are available by just showing up with cash in hand and asking around the gold fields. You could buy a dozen a day in season and see a bunch of happy "miners" walking away with smiles while they shake their heads in amazement.

If you want a good producing claim you will need to find a good gold deposit on land open to location. Those do exist. There are millions of square miles of mineralized lands open to location so your choices are nearly endless. To do that you will do exactly the same amount of work you will need to do to verify a claim for sale but it will only cost you $260 when you do make your discovery. Cheaper, more fun, better chance of a return on your time, reduced investment (better ROI) and you would know exactly what you have rather than relying on a claim sellers honesty.

If you really want to throw good money away on your dreams why not consider my Gold Magnet (pat pending). You just drag the gold magnet along behind you and at the end of the day scrape off the ounces of gold it collects.

No need for a claim at all and just like buying a claim it's powered only by your hopes and dreams - no batteries or fuel cost! I can't sell on this forum but if I could I'd tell you the fact that the Gold Magnet (pat pending) is only $2,500 dollars making it a real bargain compared to buying an unproven claim for $5,000 or $50,000 dollars. Or you could just mail me $2,500 and avoid the disappointment you will invariably experience when you find there is no good gold on the claim you bought and there is no such thing as a gold magnet.

Heavy Pans

 

[kcm]

I have a friend here in Arizona who mines with 3 partners. They've got about 3 million tied up in equipment and infrastructure and their claim produces about 4 - 5 pounds of gold every three days that all four of them are mining. They make a profit and have for the last 7 years working part time. You want to know how much they would sell their claim for? Not going to happen - their children and grandchildren will still be mining that deposit in 50 years. You couldn't offer enough money to get them to sell. When you own your own "Bank" full of gold money you would be foolish to sell it for paper money. Miner's who have done the research and work to find good paying ground are not foolish.

Amen to that!!


Hey Clay, does your Gold Magnet look anything like my model?? I've got a "small" fortune tied up in it, but I'd be willing to part with it for only $1,899.95 FIRM!!

 

[bcfromfl]

...

Thank you very much for taking the time to provide us with your observations, and grim assessment! I think there are a lot of us who don't live near enough to mineralized areas to explore and discover something on our own, but would be willing to pay a reasonable amount to have a claim of our own to reward us with our efforts each time we travel there.

Your cautions certainly paint a different picture...

 

[kcm]

Thank you very much for taking the time to provide us with your observations, and grim assessment! I think there are a lot of us who don't live near enough to mineralized areas to explore and discover something on our own, but would be willing to pay a reasonable amount to have a claim of our own to reward us with our efforts each time we travel there.

Your cautions certainly paint a different picture...

Different, but more realistic, IMO.

 

[ClaimStake]

excellent advice in this thread.

kcm, clay, goldwasher, great posts!

there's still good ground out there. you just gotta look for it.

 

[goldenIrishman]

Thank you very much for taking the time to provide us with your observations, and grim assessment! I think there are a lot of us who don't live near enough to mineralized areas to explore and discover something on our own, but would be willing to pay a reasonable amount to have a claim of our own to reward us with our efforts each time we travel there.

Your cautions certainly paint a different picture...

There are very few people this forum whose opinion I'd trust as much as I do Clays'. This is especially true when it comes to mining in AridZona. Those are his stomping grounds and he knows them well.

 

[YukonPlacerGold]

Hello: I have the following New Placer Gold Insitu Technology, We have our own drilling equipment and have worked in Nevada and Alaska. Please take a look and please feel free to share. This technology to get placer gold to the surface is very low cost. I work in Yukon/ Alaska in the summer time and would like to build new partners for winter work in warm areas, we use minimal water.....
(deleted by mod for rule violation, can not use TN to raise funds)

Regards
Kenn