Jesuit dutchman

[John_Arizona]

I want to say that I'm glad those mines haven't been found by anyone, and then many here do not believe in the spanish franciscan / jesuit templar symbols in the superstition mountains. I don't join in on any of your discussions here or go to your rendezvous, people find fault if I say anything, and many will just continue marching around the needle in circles for many more years to come, finding nothing!

 

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[cactusjumper]

I want to say that I'm glad those mines haven't been found by anyone, and then many here do not believe in the spanish franciscan / jesuit templar symbols in the superstition mountains. I don't join in on any of your discussions here or go to your rendezvous, people find fault if I say anything, and many will just continue marching around the needle in circles for many more years to come, finding nothing!

John,

Just because no one has stepped forward with solid proof of what they may have found in the Superstitions, does not mean that nothing has been found. If no gold is shown, (clear) pictures would be the next best evidence. If you can't produce such things, doubts will be the norm. A clear picture like this would be helpful:



Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[John_Arizona]

I will post some pictures soon, and then let everyone decide. I'm not saying "if it's the place or where it's at".

 

[gollum]

Y'all know me, and how long I have been studying Jesuits. I highly doubt they had any mines in the Superstitions. They may have known the locations of some ledges (from Indians), but I believe anything Jesuit in the Superstition Mountains was hidden somewhere between 1764 (French Jesuit Suppression) and 1767 (Spanish Jesuit Suppression). None of the Jesuit "Tales" in the Superstitions mentions mines. All treasure cache caves and a hidden Silver Bell.

One of the most famous names in Superstition Mountain History was Ed Piper. He made his base of operations at the base of Weaver's Needle. Piper told the story that as a child, the Chief of an Indian Tribe (not certain which) used to bounce him on his knee. When he was a little older, the Chief told him that if he ever wanted to find a treasure, he should go to the Superstition Mountains. There was a cave at the Needle which the Black Robes had hidden. Piper was not a Dutch Hunter. He hunted Jesuit Treasure until he died of Cancer in 1962.

Mike

 

[cw0909]

Just to show that this idea of a Jesuit connection to the Lost Dutchman is not a new idea, here is one from 1966

https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=kiZPAAAAIBAJ&sjid=bgEEAAAAIBAJ&pg=7293,343314

Glen Magill apparently believed that Waltz had found an old Jesuit mine. I wonder what Baker Loonie would have to say about this idea, as he was a member of that team?

Please do continue;

how many of the partners are still living if any

 

[cactusjumper]

cw,

Baker is in failing health and has needed oxygen for a number of years now. He has called me a number of times, but I have misplaced his number. I have been wanting to call him for quite awhile now. My own problems have made things a little difficult for me. If someone has his number, I would appreciate getting it in a private message. He may be one of the last remaining crew. Heath would know it and if he comes to the Rendezvous this year, it would be great if he could bring Baker with him.....health allowing.



Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[gollum]

I want to say that I'm glad those mines haven't been found by anyone, and then many here do not believe in the spanish franciscan / jesuit templar symbols in the superstition mountains. I don't join in on any of your discussions here or go to your rendezvous, people find fault if I say anything, and many will just continue marching around the needle in circles for many more years to come, finding nothing!

Actually, two of the Peralta/Gonzalez Mines have been found. The "Pit Mine" in the Eastern Superstitions (which I won't go into here) was one, and when the Mammoth Mine was about played out, one of the buckets on their bucket line got caught on a boulder, and rolled it off of a Spanish "Rat Hole" Mine. In the next couple of years (as I understand it), the Mammoth recovered about $2-$3 million in gold (at 1951 gold prices). There is another Gonzalez Family Mine on the Gila River was also found. Between Chuck Kenworthy and Myself, the Gonzalez Mine in Anza-Borrego Desert was close to being found. I didn't hunt it with Kenworthy, but I got the entire box of his Anza Research (notes, letters, TOPO Maps, and pictures).

Mike

 

[P.ALLEN]

Inside, they found the skeleton of an Alien hugging the skeleton of a Sasquatch. Rumor has it they were two of the founding members of the Illuminati. All Jokes aside but IMO that mine is been long since tapped and capped.

 

[John_Arizona]

Inside, they found the skeleton of an Alien hugging the skeleton of a Sasquatch. Rumor has it they were two of the founding members of the Illuminati. All Jokes aside but IMO that mine is been long since tapped and capped.

99% of you only know what you read in a book = trivia, the other 1% looked in the wrong place, you know it alls don't know half as much as what you think you do.

 

[cactusjumper]

99% of you only know what you read in a book = trivia, the other 1% looked in the wrong place, you know it alls don't know half as much as what you think you do.

John,

It's good to know that you are not part of the above 100%.

Show us the gold!



Rich Hill gold:







Anything along these lines will do.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[azdave35]

99% of you only know what you read in a book = trivia, the other 1% looked in the wrong place, you know it alls don't know half as much as what you think you do.

john...you will forgive us if we don't jump up and down with enthusiasm over your pics of mines...you seem like a good guy but you have to realize that about once a month someone comes on the forum with some fuzzy pics that we cant make out claiming to have found the ldm...if you want anyone to believe you have found something you are going to have to put some pics of bars...nuggets ...or something.....everyone on here isnt a know it all...some of have been mining for 35 years and really do know a little....we have all seen pics of mines...we want gold pics

 

[EarnieP]

Hello John,

I also made some hasty conclusions when I first arrived here on site that later proved completely wrong.
Stick around, these guys will grow on you.

Definitely some 'different' personalities here but each contribute to the overall feel of the place.
There has been some tremendous information shared among members here.
Some from people whose family have been searching for the LDM for generations, some who've spent their lifetime searching in the Superstition.
And surprisingly, some really good info provided from those who are just 'book readers'.

 

[SGnAZ]

And surprisingly, some really good info provided from those who are just 'book readers'.

Depends on what book they are reading.

 

[EarnieP]

True.

I was thinking of Hal in particular, one of the best of the newer researchers who's provided some excellent 'book learnin' info from all kinds of written sources.
Of course he's not just a reader, he also puts on boots and gets out into the Superstition.
See him posting on the other site, wish he'd join us here again.

Not forgetting you older book researchers who've also been out there in the desert, and might have even written a book or two yourselves.
or Dave, who no one can force feed a book, but knows a lot of 'stuff'.

All in all a good group posting here.
Some may come off seeming to be slightly 'know it all's' to us newbies.
Maybe for good reason, ...they've earned it.

 

[azdave35]

True.

I was thinking of Hal in particular, one of the best of the newer researchers who's provided some excellent 'book learnin' info from all kinds of written sources.
Of course he's not just a reader, he also puts on boots and gets out into the Superstition.
See him posting on the other site, wish he'd join us here again.

Not forgetting you older book researchers who've also been out there in the desert, and might have even written a book or two yourselves.
or Dave, who no one can force feed a book, but knows a lot of 'stuff'.

All in all a good group posting here.
Some may come off seeming to be slightly 'know it all's' to us newbies.
Maybe for good reason, ...they've earned it.

earnie...actually i've read most of the books on the ldm....especially the older ones...i just don't put much stock in them..i have a huge library of books..you have to realize..most authors have never been in the mountains...they just read everything they can get their hands on about the superstitons....and then they "liberate" tidbits from every book and "edit"them into their book...SO THEY HAVE NEVER DONE ANY ACTUAL RESEARCH..they are just taking it for granted that the info they "stole" is correct..i don't know about you..but if i am planning a treasure hunting expedition....i don't rely on books...i do my own research..

 

[somehiker]

I've posted this shot before, taken from the top of a usually dry waterfall.....called it the "lightning strike vein".
Kinda wondering now if it's what they was thinking of, when they talked about the "Thunder God's Gold".
I'll have to go back and get some samples, maybe after it cools down some......but what do you guys think ?



Regards:SH.

 

[EarnieP]

earnie...actually i've read most of the books on the ldm....especially the older ones...i just don't put much stock in them..i have a huge library of books..you have to realize..most authors have never been in the mountains...they just read everything they can get their hands on about the superstitons....and then they "liberate" tidbits from every book and "edit"them into their book...SO THEY HAVE NEVER DONE ANY ACTUAL RESEARCH..they are just taking it for granted that the info they "stole" is correct..i don't know about you..but if i am planning a treasure hunting expedition....i don't rely on books...i do my own research..

Yep, I know you do your own research.

I remember you once saying you'd never rely on someone else's opinion and map to the best Bar-B-Que spot in Phoenix, ...you'd follow your own nose! That was a great 'Dave Quote'!

 

[gollum]

John,

Do you have something against reading? Hahaha I highly recommend reading everything on the subject you can get your hands on. I mean everything. Books for and against the existence of the LDM. Books that place it in the Superstitions or the Bradshaws. Take it all in, and then go out in the mountains (as your conditioning and health permit). Once you have some experience with both the legends and the terrain, form your own theories. Then, go back in the mountains and run down those theories.

i would give everybody the same advice Jim Hatt once gave me "Do all the research you need to form your opinion. Once you believe one way or another, act on that belief. Don't get bogged down arguing details with people who have never been there."

One thing that always makes me laugh, is when people come here trying to convince us they have found the LDM. If they REALLY found it, why are they trying to convince a bunch of people they have never met, based on fuzzy pictures of things they claim are clues?, then get mad when we don't believe them? If I had actually found the LDM, nobody here would know a thing about it (until Jack San Felice wrote about in a book years later ). The only way it would be on TNet, would be if it were in a place I absolutely couldn't get away with keeping it a secret. Hahaha

There are several people here who have a great deal of experience in the Superstitions, mining, prospecting, treasure hunting, researching, and a host of other disciplines. Showing up here, making all kinds of wild claims, then trying to denigrate a lot of people with a lot more knowledge and experience than you, does nothing more than make you look like either a troll or a fool. You trash talk people like Tom Kollenborn, Bob Corbin, and Clay Worst. You would do well to meet them, and talk to them. Even if you think they are wrong, you would still get the benefit of knowing where NOT to look.

Mike

 

[gollum]

Hello John,

I also made some hasty conclusions when I first arrived here on site that later proved completely wrong.
Stick around, these guys will grow on you.

Definitely some 'different' personalities here but each contribute to the overall feel of the place.
There has been some tremendous information shared among members here.
Some from people whose family have been searching for the LDM for generations, some who've spent their lifetime searching in the Superstition.
And surprisingly, some really good info provided from those who are just 'book readers'.

EarnieP,

Hal is a good example (remember the Jesuit hot air balloon?), but the one that stays with me is BlindBowman. He got a picture of the LDM in a passenger plane taking off from Sky Harbor. Hahaha He just knew he had found the LDM based on Google Earth. Every time I talked to J Scott Wood, he would tell me about this nutty guy that called him all the time wanting a Treasure Trove Permit. After all his craziness, he had the cojones to come out to the Rendezvous, and hike into La Barge to prove us all wrong. He found out his LDM was exactly what Cactusjumper told him it was: Chuck Crawford's old claim. He was then man enough to come back into camp admitting "mea' culpa" .

Mike

 

[EarnieP]

I don't remember the Jesuit Hot air balloon story, sounds like it might be a good one...
Yeah, I believe Hal to be an extraordinarily gifted guy.
----
I can't laugh too much about the La Barge story, I thought the same for a while (still).



Mel Fisher found his big treasure right off where I, and thousands of others, used to fish at Sebastian Inlet.
Hundreds, maybe thousands, of people hike right over Indian Paint Mine area...just sayin.