Yall lied to me... Lol

[Holly_squirrel]

" go ask permission to dig with a big smile on your face and nobody will tell a sweet girl no". Well guess what.... Your wrong. I finally got the nerve to go to the county park... That I know is absolutely legal to detect ( my friends sister is a lawyer n detects there )..... And i walk in all smiles and friendly and ask and I get a grouchy ranger woman That snapped " No" . I started to say "oh, i'm sorry, I thought you could . I know someone....." And got cut off with a huffy sigh and a " No, you can't ". Lol. OMG I'm so mad, lol. I felt like saying "
I'm sorry, is there a male ranger I can ask? "

 

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[hunter_46356]

AW.... OOOOOH ..... this is turning into one of those "I ask permission" threads and "Got told NO!"..... Tom will be here soon. In all honesty I agree and understand, It's better to do the research and find the answer, instead of asking first. Holly you didn't do anything that others haven't already so if Jason and Tom reply just understand they are only looking out for the future of this hobby. I have taken their advice and actually was questioned by a certain employee of a place I was hunting. He said it wasn't allowed, I pulled a copy of the ordinances out of my pocket and said " Where does it say that?" He couldn't and didn't have a come back.

 

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[spartacus53]

I don't have the nerve to go now , I don't think, since I been told no. I'm not good at confrontation. But I'm pissed, lol

Point the way, I'll be glad to go there and straighten them out I'm good like that

Besides, I'm in the mood for a little banter with a park ranger.

 

[Petrie502]

You should just go anyway, the most there gonna do is ask you to leave. I never ask for park permission and I live in Louisville ky.. We have a no metal detecting law here now, but even the police think its a joke, they just say fill in the holes.. Cops have better things to do especially here in the city ie.(murders, drugs)

 

[cudamark]

" go ask permission to dig with a big smile on your face and nobody will tell a sweet girl no". Well guess what.... Your wrong. I finally got the nerve to go to the county park... That I know is absolutely legal to detect ( my friends sister is a lawyer n detects there )..... And i walk in all smiles and friendly and ask and I get a grouchy ranger woman That snapped " No" . I started to say "oh, i'm sorry, I thought you could . I know someone....." And got cut off with a huffy sigh and a " No, you can't ". Lol. OMG I'm so mad, lol. I felt like saying "
I'm sorry, is there a male ranger I can ask? "

That will teach you to be polite and ask! At this point, I'd look up any rules about detecting that area. If there aren't any, I'd go back and hunt it during an off hour when Ms. No is off duty.

 

[DEHew64]

I thought it was the polite thing to do... To ask... But now I'm sorry I did. It makes me kinda mad, cause the majority of that county park is woods . Like it would matter if somebody dug a few holes in the woods n covered them back up. It's the perfect place for a relic hunter . There use to be an old iron blast furnace there in the 1800's and a few structures remain partially standing.... Now consumed by the forest. Add to that , that part of a very notable historic area use to stand on part of that land.... And it's a relic gold mine . And during the civil war Washington and his troops stayed stayed in that very area and had their guns repaired at tbe furnace and the entire area had to donate all their clock weights and such to make musket balls for the army, to be made at that very furnace. I don't have the nerve to go now , I don't think, since I been told no. I'm not good at confrontation. But I'm pissed, lol

Holly check your history. Washington fought the Revolutionary War not the the Civil War AKA The War of Northern Aggression.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I too had the same question several others here did: In your OP, you said yourself about the park, that you: ".... know is absolutely legal to detect ( my friends sister is a lawyer n detects there ).... ". Yet you turn around and feel the need to ask someone "can I?" anyhow? As the "polite thing to do" ? Why can't the "polite thing to do", be to follow the rules, that you already know about?

As your case exactly shows (and so many are starting to realize): This psychology has manifested itself once again, and your example clearly shows it: Sometimes no one cares .... UNTIL you ask.

I mean, for example, I bet that lady would never have noticed you, nor given the matter thought, till you came in with your "pressing question". Persons in authority tend to take the "safe" answer. And when you think of it, ... the moment anyone comes in asking "can I do such and such" simply infers that something must be askew with the activity. Ie.: harmful, damaging, evil, etc... that you had to ask permission, to begin with. Lest why would you be asking, if it were innocuous and harmless? Doh! This is not subconsciously lost on the person you are asking, and their mind will drift to all sorts of things to morph to fit the question, in order to tell you "no". When ... truth-be-told, perhaps they'd never have given the matter a moment's thought, and never have paid you a second glance.

The sad thing now, is that when that SAME ranger sees ANOTHER md'r in that park, guess what's going to to go through that lady's mind? She'll remember this earlier inquiry, and think: "aha!, there's one of THEM", and start booting others. I've seen this happen multiple times. And thus ... another law or policy is born

So in the future, as folks here are telling you, look it up for yourself. If you see nothing that says "no metal detectors", then presto, it must not be prohibited.

Re.: the psychology of a pretty girl verses an ugly guy asking. I suppose in cases where "permission was needed" (which isn't the case in this case), then that *should* help, I would think. Heck, my wife gets out of tickets all the time when driving, and when it comes my turn, I don't get that sort of leniency/warnings, durnit!

 

[Holly_squirrel]

Ok, revolutionary war. You feel better now? thanks

 

[Holly_squirrel]

I too had the same question several others here did: In your OP, you said yourself about the park, that you: ".... know is absolutely legal to detect ( my friends sister is a lawyer n detects there ).... ". Yet you turn around and feel the need to ask someone "can I?" anyhow? As the "polite thing to do" ? Why can't the "polite thing to do", be to follow the rules, that you already know about?

As your case exactly shows (and so many are starting to realize): This psychology has manifested itself once again, and your example clearly shows it: Sometimes no one cares .... UNTIL you ask.

I mean, for example, I bet that lady would never have noticed you, nor given the matter thought, till you came in with your "pressing question". Persons in authority tend to take the "safe" answer. And when you think of it, ... the moment anyone comes in asking "can I do such and such" simply infers that something must be askew with the activity. Ie.: harmful, damaging, evil, etc... that you had to ask permission, to begin with. Lest why would you be asking, if it were innocuous and harmless? Doh! This is not subconsciously lost on the person you are asking, and their mind will drift to all sorts of things to morph to fit the question, in order to tell you "no". When ... truth-be-told, perhaps they'd never have given the matter a moment's thought, and never have paid you a second glance.

The sad thing now, is that when that SAME ranger sees ANOTHER md'r in that park, guess what's going to to go through that lady's mind? She'll remember this earlier inquiry, and think: "aha!, there's one of THEM", and start booting others. I've seen this happen multiple times. And thus ... another law or policy is born

So in the future, as folks here are telling you, look it up for yourself. If you see nothing that says "no metal detectors", then presto, it must not be prohibited.

Re.: the psychology of a pretty girl verses an ugly guy asking. I suppose in cases where "permission was needed" (which isn't the case in this case), then that *should* help, I would think. Heck, my wife gets out of tickets all the time when driving, and when it comes my turn, I don't get that sort of leniency/warnings, durnit!

Well as it turns out, it's not legal without a permit. So had I just waltzed by with my detector I could have possibly gotten fined by that crabby ranger.

 

[ZR2guy]

I think that if MD'ing is not allowed then it should be posted. If I don't see it posted , in I go to MD. I was at one local park where a sign was posted with a list of do's and dont's and MD'ing wasn't listed. I was there about an hour when a park ranger approached me and asked what I was doing.(DUH) So I thought ,I will play along. I told him I was actually digging up trash from those that didn't see the "No Littering" sign.Then I proceeded to show him all the trash in my finds pouch. He tells me I can't MD here but at that same time 2 dogs run by us that are not on a leash and I cut him off in his explanation of not MD'ing by telling him that the sign at the park entrance states that all dogs must be on a leash but nothing about MD'ing.I was removing trash that shouldn't have been there according to the posted sign and dogs were running around unleashed but I am getting lectured about the damage to the park from MD'ing.What is wrong with this world?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Well as it turns out, it's not legal without a permit. So had I just waltzed by with my detector I could have possibly gotten fined by that crabby ranger.

Holly, I'm assuming that this permit verbage is in writing somewhere, RIGHT? Then in that case, it falls outside the scope of this conversation. Because you can clearly see, in that case, that you could have deduced this rule via your own research (a need for a permit), and .... presto .... got one. Thus, no, you would not be "fined by crabby rangers", if/when you follow the rules you look up. In that case, there is a rule, that you sluethed out, that you are welcome to now follow.

Where did you find out that there's a permit? (just curious). Did the crabby lady eventually tell you? Did your friend who already detects there tell you? In any case, that info HAS to be somewhere, for public viewing. It's got to be "on the books" somewhere accessible to public viewing.

Oh, and by the way, "permits" of any sort for "detecting" are extremely rare. Or to the extent that some places allude to such a thing, it's not usually in the context we md'rs think of. Rather: The "permit" they are referring to, is archaeological permit, to dig @ monuments and stuff. Ie.: the average joe will never get this "permit". And even THOSE places, that type verbage was usually drafted, way before the advent of detectors, to apply to person's who intended to to archie digs, etc... I can think of places with such verbage, where detecting is not a problem, and ... assuming such verbage was/is talking about excavations, scientific studies, etc...., no one would think to apply that to the geek plying the beach, or someone plying for modern change in the forest. But given-enough-people-asking, I suppose someone could make the connection.

But perhaps this isn't the case, and there really is a "permit" in the sense of how we all think of a library card or whatever. In that case, presto, go get it

 

[Holly_squirrel]

Holly, I'm assuming that this permit verbage is in writing somewhere, RIGHT? Then in that case, it falls outside the scope of this conversation. Because you can clearly see, in that case, that you could have deduced this rule via your own research (a need for a permit), and .... presto .... got one. Thus, no, you would not be "fined by crabby rangers", if/when you follow the rules you look up. In that case, there is a rule, that you sluethed out, that you are welcome to now follow.

Where did you find out that there's a permit? (just curious). Did the crabby lady eventually tell you? Did your friend who already detects there tell you? In any case, that info HAS to be somewhere, for public viewing. It's got to be "on the books" somewhere accessible to public viewing.

Oh, and by the way, "permits" of any sort for "detecting" are extremely rare. Or to the extent that some places allude to such a thing, it's not usually in the context we md'rs think of. Rather: The "permit" they are referring to, is archaeological permit, to dig @ monuments and stuff. Ie.: the average joe will never get this "permit". And even THOSE places, that type verbage was usually drafted, way before the advent of detectors, to apply to person's who intended to to archie digs, etc... I can think of places with such verbage, where detecting is not a problem, and ... assuming such verbage was/is talking about excavations, scientific studies, etc...., no one would think to apply that to the geek plying the beach, or someone plying for modern change in the forest. But given-enough-people-asking, I suppose someone could make the connection.

But perhaps this isn't the case, and there really is a "permit" in the sense of how we all think of a library card or whatever. In that case, presto, go get it

SECTION 6. Destruction of plant life, natural and cultural surroundings
No person shall, on County real estate:
A. Cut, remove or destroy any tree, sapling, seedling, bush or shrub, whether alive or dead, or chip,
blaze, box, girdle, trim, or otherwise deface or injure any tree or shrub, or break or remove any branch, foliage, tree or shrub, or pick, gather, uproot, remove, or destroy any flower, fruit, plant or grass except with a permit issued by the Department.
B. Remove or cause to be removed, any natural or man-made materials, artifacts, or archeological or historical items, or to dig any sod, earth, humus, peat, boulder, rock, gravel or sand, except with a permit issued by the Department.
C. Use a metal detector, except with a permit issued by the Department.

6c. At the time I asked , I had no inkling that such a thing existed... And only found this in small print in a special section of full ordinances... When a fellow member here did the leg work and pointed it out to me. Therefor I stand by my desicion to ask . Because had I just gone and detected because it was not blatantly posted, I could have faced a fine. I could not research a metal detecting permit , because I had no clue such a thing existed.

 

[GroundHound]

AW.... OOOOOH ..... this is turning into one of those "I ask permission" threads and "Got told NO!"..... Tom will be here soon.

rofl like a moth to the flame XD

 

[DizzyDigger]

Holly, if you were in King County the permit is not costly at all:

2012 Fees

I used to live down there, and have had some outstanding luck finding goodies
in many of the parks and playfields in N. Seattle and Ballard, which is oldest area
in Seattle, and was first settled by the Norwegians/Swede's about 1865.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

On the contrary. You COULD have found that information, w/o having to ask a live-person. I mean, heck, it must be on the net somewhere, in order for you to have cut-&-pasted it here, right? And then once you find those local rules, great .... follow them. But I'll tell you what: if you *really* feel the need to talk to a live person (rather than having to do the "arduous" task of finding your county's codes and laws yourself), here's another way to satisfy the urge to talk to someone:

Go in to talk to the live person, and ask in this way: "hello, where can the public find & view the listing of all the county's codes, laws, rules, charter, etc...?" They, in turn, would point you to wherever that exists, for public viewing. Then you scan it for the information you are seeking. Like you've found here. Heck, if it's on the net like this, you can even search quickly via key-word combinations! ("metal detector" or "detecting", etc...). And therefore NO, you will not "face fines". You WOULD have a clue that ".... such a thing existed".

The trouble with asking live persons "can I do such & such?" and thinking they will refer you to such things (as you've found here), is that .... all too often, that's NOT what happens ... unfortunately. Instead, you get "no's" where no one ever had a problem before, and no such rule exists. Thus why I say, sleuth it out, and look it up for oneself.

 

[hunter_46356]

Tom, I've already stated and you know I support your stance on this, but......There's always a but. Just like in the rules and regs Holly posted the politicians get around actually stating "No Metal Detecting" by using words and phrases like " something or anything cannot be damaged" therefore it's up to the discretion of the person enforcing the so call rules. What nobody can prove is the fact that, are we or are we not damaging the grass or turf by digging it up. This is one reason I and everybody should be extremely careful about how we go about digging. Learn how to probe and pop shallow targets. Learn how to replace a plug and leave no trace what so ever that ground was plugged. It can be done but you have to take the time to do it. The rules that cover damage to whatever are very specific. What is not specific is what constitutes damage. When you can tell the enforcing officer " I've been here for and hour and dug 10 holes please take a look around and tell me if you can find them" If he can't then I guess there has been no damage done, therefore no rule broken.

 

[Holly_squirrel]

On the contrary. You COULD have found that information, w/o having to ask a live-person. I mean, heck, it must be on the net somewhere, in order for you to have cut-&-pasted it here, right? And then once you find those local rules, great .... follow them. But I'll tell you what: if you *really* feel the need to talk to a live person (rather than having to do the "arduous" task of finding your county's codes and laws yourself), here's another way to satisfy the urge to talk to someone:

Go in to talk to the live person, and ask in this way: "hello, where can the public find & view the listing of all the county's codes, laws, rules, charter, etc...?" They, in turn, would point you to wherever that exists, for public viewing. Then you scan it for the information you are seeking. Like you've found here. Heck, if it's on the net like this, you can even search quickly via key-word combinations! ("metal detector" or "detecting", etc...). And therefore NO, you will not "face fines". You WOULD have a clue that ".... such a thing existed".

The trouble with asking live persons "can I do such & such?" and thinking they will refer you to such things (as you've found here), is that .... all too often, that's NOT what happens ... unfortunately. Instead, you get "no's" where no one ever had a problem before, and no such rule exists. Thus why I say, sleuth it out, and look it up for oneself.

;censored:

 

[cudamark]

That's uncalled for. Tom's just trying to help us all in a sensitive area when dealing with government officials. If you don't like his advice, ignore it. Name calling is not helpful to anyone.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

....There's always a but. Just like in the rules and regs Holly posted the politicians get around actually stating "No Metal Detecting" by using words and phrases like " something or anything cannot be damaged" therefore it's up to the discretion of the person enforcing the so call rules.....

hunter, yes. And I've always and often acknowledged that fact. You're certainly right. ANYONE can come up to you or I, and morph any number of other things that they say applies to this activity. It can be the dreaded alterations and defacement clauses (even though you and I know we will leave no trace). Or things like: harvesting and collecting verbage. Or Cultural heritage verbage. Even things like "annoyances" clauses, d/t they could say you were "annoying" someone. Or ... heck ... even the IRS can come out and say you can't do it unless you pay the 20% tax bracket on that clad, and so forth. The list is endless.

But no, we should not automatically assume that our hobby falls afoul of everything, simply because someone might come up and level a claim. If a person in authority comes up to you with such an interpretation that they say you run afoul of, fine, move on. But to presume AHEAD OF TIME, that you are AUTOMATICALLY afoul of things that might be morphed to apply, is to loose the battle, from before you even start.

Or, I suppose you can walk into a ranger station, or city hall, with a shovel in your hand, and (to be utterly honest and forthcoming), say: "Hi, can I dig and destroy the park, taking cultural heritage archaeological items for my own fun and enjoyment, while annoying people, taking things, and failing to pay taxes on it?" Then stand back and hear their answer.

Hollysnow, sorry you think I'm an A-hole. If I've said something in a way that wasn't pallatable, sorry about that. In my 35 yrs. of this, I've seen places closed to detecting, for no other reason, that a whole host of people went seeking clarification, asking permission, etc.... And lo & behold, some city, county, or state, goes to "address this pressing issue". So I do not consider the advice, therefore, to look things up for oneself, to make one an A-hole. But ... whatever.

 

[Holly_squirrel]

That's uncalled for. Tom's just trying to help us all in a sensitive area when dealing with government officials. If you don't like his advice, ignore it. Name calling is not helpful to anyone.

Apparently you didn't pick up on his belittling tone. I let it slide the first time. The second time I'm gonna call him on it. If your being helpful , you don't wuse thinly veiled condescending Insults. Sorry, but I shoot from the hip.. I call it as I see it.

 

[Jason in Enid]

Apparently you didn't pick up on his belittling tone. I let it slide the first time. The second time I'm gonna call him on it. If your being helpful , you don't wuse thinly veiled condescending Insults. Sorry, but I shoot from the hip.. I call it as I see it.

There was no belittling tone other than what you wanted to infer. Tom was only explaining in greater (and POLITELY) what I would have said in a much more crass manner, which is why I didn't go into detail in my original response. Quit begging permission from people who have no authority to approve or deny it, especially as you said in your first post "you KNEW it was legal" yet you went begging anyway.

And if I "called you as I see you", I'd be booted off the board for language.