Sorry Sir, but metal detecting is not permitted here.................

[Ray S ECenFL]

I live in Brevard County Florida and have been detecting here for 15 years. Today I went to a few local (county) parks to pick up some clad. At my second park a lady walks over to me and says " Sorry Sir, but metal detecting is not permitted here".

Thought number one: Has the county passed some legislation that I am not aware of?
Thought number two: This lady is misinformed.
Thought number three: Keep this civil. Do not make it an ugly scene.

I said I was not aware that MDing was not permitted in Brevard County parks and that I must have missed the sign that tells me it is prohibited. She says that there are no signs.
( I don't want to post this in the Rants section, so I will be nice)

I asked if it was someting that was recently decided by The County and she told me, "Oh, no, it has been this way for about 7 years".

I figured that the best thing to do was depart and move on to my next county park, so I bid my good byes and moved on.

I MD around county workers all the time, speak with them and have never been told that MDing was not permitted. I even had one worker compliment me on not leaving any visible signs when I recover a target. ( He evidently had been watching me for some time). Since I have never, in all the years of MDing in this County, been approached and told that detecting was not permitted I can only figure that this lady was misinformed.

Brevard County has many signs telling you that no golfing is permitted, no dogs ( except guide dogs) are permitted, no this and no that, but I have NEVER seen a NO Metal Detecting sign and hope I never do see one.

Just thought I would share my unusual experience with you all and mention to everyone to take great care when digging in public parks because you do not want to be the reason for those dreaded signs to be put up.

Hope you all had a Merry Christmas and will have a safe New Years.

Ray S

 

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[birdman]

I have had people come to me and tell me stuff like that and in most cases they have appointed them selves caretakers of the grounds .They think you are going to leave a mess ,dig a bunch of holes and leave them or they are just making assumptions.If there are no signs and it is not private property or a state or federal historic site I would say swing away .

 

[borninok]

Did a "google" on MDng in Brevard County...you might want to check these folk out for info...to get the straight scoop...

Treasure Coast Archeological Society fro Treasure Hunting and Metal Detecting: Meets at 7:30 p.m. first Wednesdays at the North Indian River County Library, 1001 Sebastian Blvd., Sebastian. Includes Brevard County members. Call (772) 388-9047.

---Mel

borninok

 

[Jeffro]

http://www.brevardparks.com/facility/index.php#prohibit


I can't find anything on the county parks site that says you can't. Checked the ordinances at the bottom as well.

I'd check with the county parks dept. Go in and ask for a metal detecting permit, nothing else. See what they say.

Probably best not to push it or they will make a regulation, but from what I can see she was misinformed.

 

[ivan salis]

ignore the twit ---as far as asking for "permission" or a "permit" goes that means you've just given them the "right and power to say no you can't" ( my motto is ---let sleeping dogs lie ) ------- since you've done it all along for years up till now and have done it in the past ,just keep on doing it ( however do make sure to quietly check the laws "on the books" to be sure it not "outlawed"because you have to follow the laws --even the dumb ones) -- if theres nothing on the books against it, just keep on digging as you always have --- however if you find there is a there is a "no metal detecting law"on the book fight to get it over turned --- sometimes asking "important" folks makes them "think" about stuff and as far as metal detecting goes often they they "think" wrong --- petty paper punchers many times they want to use their "power" to say no to "impress" folks -----so you see how powerful and important they are, since they can make you not do something you enjoy doing ---- Ivan

 

[Ray S ECenFL]

Thank you all for the research and opinions offered.

Ray S.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Jeffro's got a point when he says: " Probably best not to push it or they will make a regulation". I have seen numerous instances where no real rule is on the books, but "since you asked" (or fought them) they say "no". Afterall, what's a lot of people's image? "Geeks with shovels making a mess", right? And if you point out that there is no specific law, they can just say "no because we said so!" The law will be on their side (law enforcement and city employees are given latitude to make decisions and interpretations, and judges will always side with them).

I had a similar situation: A particular park 1.5 hrs. away from me was always good for some silver (barbers, IHs etc...), whenever I found myself driving through that part of the state. I have probably hunted it dozens of times, over the course of 20 yrs and never had a problem. It's right in the center of town, in full view of hundreds of passing cars, etc.... But one day, a lady cop hassles us and says "you can't do that". After a bit of haggling with her, we just decided to leave, since we were on our way somewhere else anyhow.

Ironically, a few weeks later, I was to meet, via the internet, a hunter who actually lives in that town. I told him of my encounter, and his response was "you're kidding, right?". He'd hunted it for years, and never had a problem. He had friends that worked for the city, the police, etc... and insisted there is nothing addressing detecting whatsover. All he and I could figure was it was one bored cop having a bad day.

I let 6 months pass, and went again anyhow. I've done so many times over the years since then, and never had any more prob's. Does this mean I am "breaking the law" now? Or does it mean it was an isolated incident to ignore in the future?

Now a lot of people would take that one encounter, and either fight it, thus getting a law created by bureaucrats "to address this pressing issue", or would spread the word to other md'rs that "such & such park is off-limits". Before you know it, md'rs just accept it as fact.

I say: do the research yourself (don't go asking some desk-bound person "can I metal detect"). If you find nothing addressing the issue, then help yourself. As for busy-bodies like this, that are bound to happen even in the absense of a law, this is why I go at off-hours (after 5pm, weekends, etc...). Out of sight is out of mind. The trouble with "informing" a busy-body that no such restrictions exist, is they can/will merely morph the old "disturbing the vegetation" cr*p and tell you that this is what restricts you. Mind you, even if you were only "probing" or working the sandbox, or even if you dutifully packed your hole so it was virtually invisible, it still doesn't overcome the psychology that "there's this dude with a digger tool, he must be about to leave a hole"

 

[txkickergirl]

Just tell them that you are part of the prisoner release program, that you are required to remove all trash and bullet casings from your earlier gang days

*****I am just kidding, but could you imagine the look on their face?

You did a great thing and was the far bigger person, you shall be rewarded.

 

[Ray S ECenFL]

Tom in CA.

I agree with your reasoning. Certainly did not want to give any one a reason to start a campaign against MDers. Best to keep my mouth shut at the time and just walk away ( Although I was tempted to say something, very tempted).

Also, as far as asking permission. Nope. If it is not illegal, why ask. If I was doing something illegal for the past several years ( according to the lady parks department enforcer) I am sure I would have been approached long before this. I do not believe in rocking the boat, unnecessarily or relying on pencil pushing bureaucrats to make a decision for me that they do not need to make.

I believe that both our encounter were isolated incidents. I plan on letting it go at that.

Thanks for you input.

Ray S.

TXKickerGirl,

HAHAHAHA.... I like it. I should wear a pair of blue pants with a large white stripe on the side and a black and white stripped shirt ( Standard Prisoner Work Release uniform), but probably would have the Swat Team arriving asking me what the *&$%# I was doing.

Ray S.

 

[Dirt Fishin Dale]

Ray:
I had typed this once and it just went away...
I live in Canaveral Groves (Cocoa) Brevard County. I have seen no metal detecting signs on some parks around here.
The one down the road from me and one at Fox Lake in Titusville. Some have signs and some don't. I don't know why.
Someone probably left craters.

 

[seas1to2]

they don't have to have a sign,In Pinellas County there is no hunting in any park except the sand on the beach,I got stop about a year ago an was told it was a law an has been that way for years, passed because to many wires an pipes were getting dug up an holes being left uncover so they just stoped all hunting, even the county I live in Polk, my brother has been stoped an was told he counldn't detect but the guy was just a worker in a park an we kept hunting an have never been told not to since.I even had a cop come up to me will detecing an we talk about some of my finds an he never said anything about not being able to detect an I didn't ask either, could be he doesn't know an didn't see a reason for him to check it out, they don't know every law on the books an sometimes asking makes thing worse.

 

[borninok]

Ray,

My intent of providing you with a phone number and a point of contact was so that you would be able to get an intelligent and lawful answer from experienced individuals in that specific area. There are some here on TNET that thrive on skirting the law. Those are the ones that give MDers a bad name. Do yourself a favor, call the phone number provided. After all, THESE are the people that have been metal detecting in that specific area.......I would think their knowledge would be more useful to you.
Just a thought...
Mel

borninok

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Treasure Trails, you doubt there are "numerous instances"? Maybe "numerous" is up for interpretation I have 4 on the top of mind right now, that I have typed out in other threads on the subject. To type them all out again would be way long. It also depends on how one interprets the issue of "getting laws invented". Like, if a person merely gets a "no", is that now a "law"? Or was it an isolated answer to just one inquirer? And if I typed out just one instance here, will you merely say "oh, but that's only one case?". But ok, just to show one of several I'm thinking of:

True story: A fellow in some midwestern state (I forget which one) was detecting at a state park. He had detected it many times over the years, and never had a problem. This day however, a ranger came and booted him. He objected, since he had never heard of such a rule, but eventually just left. He decided to research the issue. He found out that, in fact, the laws of that state were SILENT on the issue. Ie.: not specifically allowed or disallowed, either way. So he decided to make an issue out of this and fight it. After all, he wanted to be able to hunt that park again. During this time that he was researching this, he found out that a neighboring state's laws actually had wording that specifically allowed metal detecting (albeit maybe only at beaches, and non-historic places, etc...). The hunter thought "THAT is the way it should be!". So he began to petition, by mail, to the heads of the park's dept. in his state, spelling out the booting, why it shouldn't have happened, and suggesting that the state adopt wording like their neighbor's state.

He waited and waited, and never heard a reply. In the meantime, he went to another state park, different than the one he'd been booted from. At this one, he also had never had a problem, nor had any of his buddies. All of the sudden, he gets booted from this one too, by a ranger he'd never exchanged anything but a friendly wave in the past! When he asked "why?", the ranger pulls a department memo out of his pocket, that had just come down from the head office in their state, to "be on the lookout for metal detectors, as this was not to be allowed". Guess who it was signed by?? The VERY top official this hunter had been petitioning! The connection was hard to escape. The guy ended up wishing he'd just left well enough alone, as he could see that all he did was bring up more alarms, to what had previously been an ignored/un-addressed item. He wished he'd just avoided just that one park, or just that one ranger. Word circulated amongst his friends too, and they too felt he'd done more damage than good.

That is just one example, that you can see, would get lengthy to post several more I have.

As for your success at getting "permission" to detect "public" parks in your area (which you seem to point to as some sort of proof that we should all go around asking), I can assure that I, or anyone, can just as quickly get your permission revoked, just as quickly. All I (or any cop or gardener) has to do, is go back to that same bureaucrat (whomever you talked to), and bring up the subject of holes, ARPA, Indian artifacts, and items that potentially "belong in a museum for ALL to enjoy", and believe me, your permission would be revoked. In other words, anyone who boasts that they got permission (as if it was needed) for a public park, obviously talked to someone who didn't have all the information. That's great that you are batting 100% success so far. You must be in a more down-home-friendly state or whatever. I know that persons here in CA, thinking they had to have permission, have gotten "no's". Oddly, they are sometimes at places we've gone and never been bothered.

Why think of metal detecting as any different than jogging the track, flying a frisbee, etc... Would you ask to do those things? As for your assertion of potentially being "busted", can you cite me an instance of someone being busted for detecting in a non-posted, non-historical monument? Skittish people sometimes post about "fines, jail, etc..." but when you press them for examples, none are forthcoming. I'm sure that there might be an example out there, but it would be the rare exception. So too are there examples of a driver being roughed up and jailed by a rogue cop for nothing but a tail-light infraction. Does that stop you from driving? Do you "ask permission" to drive now?

 

[nc-joe]

Every time I pass a Brevard Co. Park, I see a cop there, if it were not allowed, I'm sure they would've said something. I visit Melbourne a couple times every year.

 

[BeachComber]

I live in Brevard County Florida and have been detecting here for 15 years. Today I went to a few local (county) parks to pick up some clad. At my second park a lady walks over to me and says " Sorry Sir, but metal detecting is not permitted here".

Thought number one: Has the county passed some legislation that I am not aware of?
Thought number two: This lady is misinformed.
Thought number three: Keep this civil. Do not make it an ugly scene.

I said I was not aware that MDing was not permitted in Brevard County parks and that I must have missed the sign that tells me it is prohibited. She says that there are no signs.
( I don't want to post this in the Rants section, so I will be nice)

I asked if it was someting that was recently decided by The County and she told me, "Oh, no, it has been this way for about 7 years".

I figured that the best thing to do was depart and move on to my next county park, so I bid my good byes and moved on.

I MD around county workers all the time, speak with them and have never been told that MDing was not permitted. I even had one worker compliment me on not leaving any visible signs when I recover a target. ( He evidently had been watching me for some time). Since I have never, in all the years of MDing in this County, been approached and told that detecting was not permitted I can only figure that this lady was misinformed.

Brevard County has many signs telling you that no golfing is permitted, no dogs ( except guide dogs) are permitted, no this and no that, but I have NEVER seen a NO Metal Detecting sign and hope I never do see one.

Just thought I would share my unusual experience with you all and mention to everyone to take great care when digging in public parks because you do not want to be the reason for those dreaded signs to be put up.

Hope you all had a Merry Christmas and will have a safe New Years.

Ray S

I would have said:

"That's interesting because you're not permitted to harass other people in public places just because you don't like what they're doing. It's been that way for about 100 years."

 

[r.r.warren]

hello folks, that's strange tom dankowski (NASA tom) detects brevard parks all the time never said anything about this. ever hear that old saying let a sleeping dog lie? (i see let a sleeping dog lie was used) but i always get permission on private property. public land if theres no post i detect. (except state or fed.)

 

[Highwater]

Ray,
Was the woman that ran you off a county employee or just a citizen? I have been hunting on Brevard county land and a park for a while. I have had as many as 6 people per day come over to see if I was finding anything and stop and BS for a while. They mostly have lived in this area most or all of their lives and like to tell me where all the old stately houses used to sit. This property is in their domain. These are the same people that ban together to keep a walmart and other stores out of their area, who have fought the developers that want to build condos in their back yard. They ban together and seem to be a political force. These are the same people that welcome me in their park and are interested in what I am doing. I have also had the police patrol past me several times and usually get a friendly nod, a wave and a smile. Yes, this does seem like dream land, but that is the way it has been for me.
It hasn't always been that nice and I have had people get rather rude about digging in the dirt at other parks in other states. Once I thought I was alone and had my hand down a hole up to my elbow when a woman said something. I looked up and it was a woman walking her dog. She was very upset that I had dug such a deep hole. I had to explain to her the the diameter was still the same as if I was digging a 2 inch hole or a 20 inch hole. I had laid out a towel to put the dirt on and showed her how nice it all went back together. She bought it and went on. I will never ask permission in a park or argue with anyone. Always smile and be friendly. I just always be sure to check the park rules posted when I go in. I have seen some parks posted that you can't hunt, usually a city park with old history that is getting tired of pot holes all over their park, so they post it.
Up by Seattle in King county you have to buy an annual permit to hunt their property, 12 bucks a year. At least they have a system and have listed the do's and don'ts on the back of the permit and what properties are off limits for one reason or another. They do restrict the size of your digging tool but it is never an issue that I have ever heard of.
I would give this park a rest for a while and find some other places to hunt until it cools down. Just hope that some other innocent soul doesn't show up at the same park and start swinging away any time soon. The 'lady' would have a cow.
If it is not a historic site then I would never feel threatened about loosing my detector, getting fined or going to jail like the fellow on one of the other threads. If it isn't posted then there should never be a problem
If a private property was posted no tresspassing then you would get the idea and not to go there. It is posted and made clear of the intentions of the owner. If the county, as owner of the park, is concerned then you would think they would have it posted, right along with the rest of the park rules, on the rules and regulations sign... That is what the sign is all about, posting the rules and the the do's and don'ts... Highwater

 

[Ray S ECenFL]

After reviewing all the input, I have still decided that if it is not posted I WILL hunt.

There may be 'City' parks that have different rules, but as far as I can tell the 'County' parks are fair game.

As for the question as to "was the woman a county employee?". I just do not know. She was working at the county building, next to the playground and had a shirt on with a logo on it. I did not get close enough to read it. I would ASS-U-M-E that she was an employee. She could have been on the payroll or just a volunteer. In any event the issue was is it or is it not illegal to hunt the county parks. After reviewing the ordinances and not seeing where is to specifically mentioned and not seeing it on any sign at any park that I detect at, I would have to remain under the impression that I am NOT doing anything illegal.

Sorry, but I do not intend to ask anyone related to the county if this is permitted or not, simply because of human nature. It is easier to say no and be wrong than it is to say yes and be wrong.

Happy Hunting to you all.

Ray S.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Treasure Trails, I didn't see the tiny print beneath your moniker saying you from CA. And when you said this: " I've often called the local police departments to ask if metal detecting was permitted in parks, school yards, etc. " I took that to mean you go to city halls and ask permission. I guess I misinterpretted you? You don't ask "permission", but rather just ask something to the effect "are there any prohibitions regarding detecting?" eh? Yes, that's better than thinking we need "permission", because couching it in terms of permission, just puts them in a position to have to say yes or no, and we all know what the easy answer is there!

Yes, if someone wants to assure themselves there's no prohibitions, fine. But I DO read on forums of people asking in a way that waits for a yes or no answer. Like "is metal detecting allowed here?" is just a sentence form of asking permission. Once you ask it is that way, you're allowing them to envision geeks with shovels. But to ask if there is anything prohibiting detecting, is better, because it causes them to answer what's already in writing.

I would do my own research though and not ask a clerk. Check city websites on line, or whatever. Reason is: they might say "no, nothing addresses detecting, but you still can't do it, because we don't want people digging up the parks". And what do you do then? Enter into a debate about "digging vs probing, vs neatly re-packing, etc..."?

What do you do when you satisfy yourself that there are no restrictions, but you still get booted anyways? This has happened to me, where I'm in a city that I'm certain has nothing on their little podunk town's books about md'ing, yet a gardener (or police or whatever) sees your lesche digger, and wants to boot you? The silence of the city code on the subject of md'ing doesn't help much there

"signs are not required ......... Really, try digging in Arlington National Cemetery" To this I would respond, that my stance of not asking at each city (or school or whatever) is for non-historic-monument type places only. Of course there are places where it's a "given" that you don't dig because of the obvious archaeological signficances. But no, I don't ask in typical Joe-Blow parks, schools, etc.... If someone has an issue, they're welcome to come talk to me about it. And no, you don't get thrown in jail for this! Do you have an example of someone, thrown in jail or facing fines, for detecting in an innocuous, non-historic, non-posted regular city park? My hunch is someone might tell you to move on, but that's it. No biggee 8)

 

[Captain Trips]

I've had my activities seen by many law enforcers -- lifeguards, police, rangers, sheriffs, etc., but the most they've ever said to me was, "Having any luck?" Usually they either wave as they go past, or more often than not they don't even notice me -- as if metal detecting (with respect for the land, of course) is just another peaceful use of the parks I go to.

The only time one would get hassled is if they are expecting it. Otherwise, if not posted and no law against it is known, happy hunting!