Sorry Sir, but metal detecting is not permitted here.................

[Ray S ECenFL]

I live in Brevard County Florida and have been detecting here for 15 years. Today I went to a few local (county) parks to pick up some clad. At my second park a lady walks over to me and says " Sorry Sir, but metal detecting is not permitted here".

Thought number one: Has the county passed some legislation that I am not aware of?
Thought number two: This lady is misinformed.
Thought number three: Keep this civil. Do not make it an ugly scene.

I said I was not aware that MDing was not permitted in Brevard County parks and that I must have missed the sign that tells me it is prohibited. She says that there are no signs.
( I don't want to post this in the Rants section, so I will be nice)

I asked if it was someting that was recently decided by The County and she told me, "Oh, no, it has been this way for about 7 years".

I figured that the best thing to do was depart and move on to my next county park, so I bid my good byes and moved on.

I MD around county workers all the time, speak with them and have never been told that MDing was not permitted. I even had one worker compliment me on not leaving any visible signs when I recover a target. ( He evidently had been watching me for some time). Since I have never, in all the years of MDing in this County, been approached and told that detecting was not permitted I can only figure that this lady was misinformed.

Brevard County has many signs telling you that no golfing is permitted, no dogs ( except guide dogs) are permitted, no this and no that, but I have NEVER seen a NO Metal Detecting sign and hope I never do see one.

Just thought I would share my unusual experience with you all and mention to everyone to take great care when digging in public parks because you do not want to be the reason for those dreaded signs to be put up.

Hope you all had a Merry Christmas and will have a safe New Years.

Ray S

 

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[guzz1]

KEEP SWINGING !!!!! THat all theres to it , until someone shows me a badge and tells me to stop ,
Guzz1

 

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[rmptr]

That's interesting MD,

Stewardship.

and 50year cutoff...

...Well my latin has fallen into disrepair,
but I'll hack away at it, and perhaps someone will correct it.

An act may be considered wrong for two different reasons.
"en mala prohibida" because it is obviously wrong, in, and of itself, and prohibited.
...theft, violence, waste, destruction of property...
and then there is "en mala per se" which is, "because we say it is wrong."
This would be dynamiting tree stumps in your yard, (in chicago), traveling by vehicle, building a home, (in miami), or various things such as that... fishing, for another.
Point being, you CAN do each, and all of those, but govt demands that you get their LICENSE to do so.

Ignorance of the law may only be a valid defense in the second case.

Personally, I feel it to be a violation of the common law crime of waste, to leave a 1925 quarter under 2" of dirt, at the local park. Especially if I can selectively recover that value without doing collateral damage of consequence that may damage other's enjoyment of that place.

There are only two ways to overturn bad law.

Campaign to have a political representative overturn it, or,
pursue the matter in a court of law until you reach a high enough level in the judiciary where it may be ruled unconstitutional.
You may not enter the court system unless you are an injured party that has incurred some damage.
A citation will suffice. You have been prevented from exercising a peaceful pasttime that could benefit all.

If you are fortunate, the misdemeanor court will NOT throw the ticket out, and you can begin to pursue the matter in earnest following your conviction, appealing the matter upwards, at each level in turn.
It might take 5 years or so.
If super court won't hear the matter, well, you'll need to pay the $35 fine.
And do it all over again!
Next time around, you'll probably do a better job writing your appeal!

If EVERYONE plead Not Guilty to infraction citations, the municipal cash cow would become swamped within the first month and cops would go back to fighting crime.

Believe me, THEY would much prefer it that way.

Be forewarned, it is a very intricate system that must be learned. As the various aspects are learned, you develop a warm respect for the law.

By golly, it should be taught in school!
(Wonder why it is not?)

Only a modest financial investment is required, and more shall be required at higher levels.
We have a great system... use it!

It sure beats musketballs and grapeshot!
rmptr

 

[Dirt Fishin Dale]

Yes rmptr, laws are strange in their own way. I can run around naked on federal property but can’t metal detect.
I am speaking of Playlinda beach on the east coast of Florida.
Go figure.

 

[rmptr]

Yes rmptr, laws are strange in their own way. I can run around naked on federal property but can’t metal detect.
I am speaking of Playlinda beach on the east coast of Florida.
Go figure.

LOL
Yah, I'm too fat to run around nekkid...
There's probably a law!
rmptr

 

[Ray S ECenFL]

Yes rmptr, laws are strange in their own way. I can run around naked on federal property but can’t metal detect.
I am speaking of Playlinda beach on the east coast of Florida.
Go figure.

Dale,
Next time you are running around in the buff at Playalinda Beach, look up on the hill over looking the beach. See the large building? I has a very large camera that takes pictures of the launches at Kennedy Space Center, they also have a great view of the beach. LOL Smile you are on Candid Camera.

Too bad that is National Seashore. Probably lots of goodies to be had.


Happy Hunting.

Ray S

 

[eathabs]

After reading through this exhausting thread, I wonder how many of us have contacted the local law enforcement agencies to offer assistance should the need arise. I did and have access to any public property within city limits without asking if detecting or digging is allowed. After speaking with a friend who is a local law enforcement official, I found that all they have for crime scene searching are hand held scanners!! Granted, many police departments have MDs but there are also many that don't and many that would probably need or like assistance in searching a crime scene.

Just a thought from snowy PA.

Hal

 

[Dirt Fishin Dale]

Ray
I dont detect naked.
No where to put my finds.

 

[borninok]

Eathabs,

Just thought I would throw this in.........

Your town of Sunbury, PA.....population in 2006 was 9,944. Median household income in 2005 was around $29,800. Median house/condo resale value in 2005 was around $74K.

My city of Manassas, VA...which has established laws on the books against possession of metal detector on public property....population in 2006 was 36,638...and grew tremendously to somewhere around 60,000+ in 2007. Median household income in 2005 was around $63K, but has since grown. Median house/condo resale value last year jumped to nearly $600K-$1Mil.

...................................................................

Not comparing your town to Mayberry RFD....but.........you have to remember..........some communities of less than 10,000 folks...............well, they tend to be more relaxed in their views and laws.

Point is....just that ....small communities, lower income, lower house/condo resale ....they actually tend to be more understanding with normal folk.

Not saying that us MDers are abnormal folk..................LOL....well, some are....LOL

Just a thought.
--Mel

borninok

 

[eathabs]

Well said Born!!

Hal

 

[Born2Dtect]

My vote for most anal town goes to Canton, Ohio. When I asked about detecting laws for parks I was warned not to even go in them with a detector or else! But then canton has always been very anal about almost everything.

Ed D.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Ed, just curious: How did you phrase your question in Canton? "Can I metal detect in your parks?" or "Are there any prohibitions regarding md'ing here?" etc.... Did you confirm that there is actually something prohibiting detectors, or was this just one desk-bound gal whose image was geeks with shovels?

 

[Born2Dtect]

Tried the city and local county parks. Both said no and the regulations were on line. They don't like the digging part I think. I approached with a nice intro and asked if metal detecting was allowed. One park ranger in particular not only quoted the regs but warned me of possible repercussions. I did contant a couple of nongovernment places and did get 2 places to detect.

Ed D.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Ok, so you "asked if metal detecting was allowed" (which is a another form of saying "can I metal detect here?"). Rather than to put them in a position of having to cite the specific code. That wording would be: "Is there anything in the law that prohibits metal detecting?" See the difference? The first way of wording it, allows someone to say "no", and say that, simply because they feel like you shouldn't be doing it. But the second way of wording it, makes it a black and white question of whether there's something that specifically says it. The reason this is important, is a lot of cities, to be honest, it's probably never crossed their mind (especially podunk little towns where no one else has ever even thought they needed to ask, to begin with). As such, there might be no rules about it. But if walk in there with the question, you can get "no", when in fact, probably nothing really addresses it, & no one would have cared or paid attention to you had you just gone.

Also, you say: "They don't like the digging part I think". So what did you do? Tell them "I'll be digging" or "is digging ok?" Or was the digging thing just their immediate mental picture once you asked your md'ing question? Because naturally, no park or city anywhere in the USA would say "SURE, go ahead and dig. Wohoo"

 

[Born2Dtect]

Tom in CA,

I tried to do a quick search to show the info I saw. I could not get regulations for city or county. This was over 2 years ago. I did use a generic non threatening general request. These 2 were the only ones not allowing detecting I ever got with it. I may try again when I go to visit again. I generally find that someone in the Parks and Rec. Dept. to be very cordial and helpfull. Now that I think about it the reply from a ranger was from a Lt. and may have been parks under Ohio state controll. I will try another day as Canton looks like a good place to detect.

Ed D.

 

[rmptr]

I kinda like Tom's method of wording things more advantageously

"My wife bought me a new metal detector for my birthday and I'm going to look for coins and retrieve them in South Park. Who's on the maintenance staff there today so I can say HI to them."

It IS OUR park, and of course I shall be selective, AND conscientious.
Surely there is no ordinance against harmless recreational pursuits.

If that might be a problem, let's get the boss out here, because I've got some issues with him.

Aw shucks...
I guess it's a Beastie Boy kinda thing!
rmptr

 

[borninok]

Rmptr,
"It IS OUR park, and of course I shall be selective, AND conscientious.
Surely there is no ordinance against harmless recreational pursuits."

Well, let's see.....I know when I approached one county's park representative....I explained that I had recently retired.....talked to the lady a couple of minutes on how I had had 4 heart attacks & quadruple bypass....we talked about health problems for awhile....talked about what activities that retired folk could participate or assist with...........and slowly swung the conversation back towards my health problems. Told her that my cardiologist had urged me to take up walking....and that developed into metal detecting. BANG! Door closed on conversation. She promptly went into a tirade about metal detectorists who "violated" the land by detecting w/o permission....thus, a county law was passed (derived from the state law) that stated not only was metal detecting prohibited on public land (to include parks, schools, "tot lots", sports fields, etc)....but mere possession of a metal detector was prohibited on public property.

So....sometimes the door of opportunity has been slammed in our faces by our idiot predecessors who MD'd w/o permission...or ..apparently "violated" the land. Dang, I didn't want to ask her how you could "violate" the land...LOL

Point is...I understand what you are saying, but sometimes soft talk won't open the closed doors...no matter what. Fact is fact and laws are laws.....at least that is the way they see it.
--Mel

borninok

 

[MD Dog]

Your right on Born. Some people refuse to accept the laws as they are written and seek to interpret them as advantageously as possible to suit their own designs. This however will only lead to more bad representations of our sport and won't hold water in a court of law. You may think you can bend and twist whatever you want with legalease but the truth is, these laws have already had precedents set and interpretations have already been established. Try as you might you won't talk your way out of a ticket or worse an arrest.

 

[rmptr]

Oh Gosh Mel!

Sry to hear you've had so many problems with your pump...
Best think in the world for you to be out there in the park!
Not that you need MY advice, but I would think it best for you to go with the flow and avoid the aggravating situations that seem to come down the path more often, these days.
Happy Hunting
rmptr

 

[rmptr]

Some people refuse to accept the laws as they are written

Is that a BAD thing MD Dog?

The books are FULL of bad law, and MANY are overturned, on a continuing basis.

Please allow me to present an example.

At the time of THE depression, here in the United States, very poor people traveled across the country in search of work. It was down to basics. They had no money for food, let alone shelter, and would work as they could find it, just for a meal.
If they could not find work, they were forced to rely upon charity, to eat.

At that time, the State of California perceived a problem with Okies entering the state, and getting on the public funded dole until they were able to find work. It was a burden upon the state treasury.

California legislature enacted a law declaring it a criminal event, punishable by arrest and incarceration, to enter the state if you were not a person of financial substance. Meaning, had money in your pocket.

There was a destitute Okie named Miller, who traveled across the country, with intentions of staying with a married sister in California until he found work.

He was arrested at the state line as a vagrant, because he had no money or visible means of support.

Miller plead NOT GUILTY to being a criminal.

He was convicted.
He appealed.
Conviction was upheld.
He appealed again.
The matter finally got to the Supreme court of our land.

In a landmark decision, the Supreme Court ruled that a citizen, of any means, has every right to travel, from state to state in order to better himself.

The BAD LAW was overturned, and thus, was null and void from it's inception.

The case may be easily researched. It is known as Miller vs California.

I'm personally grateful to that fellow, Miller.
I'll bet it wasn't easy for him.
Good thing he was a scrapper, or there'd be another junk law still on the books.
rmptr

 

[MD Dog]

Sorry but I don't think your comparison with what is the topic of this thread is a valid argument. For someone to be destitute and in search of a better life for himself is hardly compareable with those people who would ignore Laws that are designed to thwart treasure hunting and or Metal detecting on public lands. I mean to just ignore these laws and go ahead and metal detect with the thinking that you can argue your way out of trouble by claiming that interpretation differs from what has been established and excepted will only lead to your conviction and another black eye on our sport. If you think these laws are bad laws because of some concept that is a valid Legal concept then by all means challenge them in a court of law as prescribed by the law rather than make a show that can and will only leave the rest of us looking bad.