The Knights Templar connection to Oak Island Challenge

[ECS]

The accuracy of carbon 14 is highly dependent on whether or not the sample was clean or contaminated by outside sources.
The samples of Oak Island coconut coir contained tar and were exposed to salt water and other environmental and atmospheric conditions, also by those who dug into the "money pit".
The carbon 14 test results of the Oak Island coir is not considered as absolutely accurate or correct, and is very questionable.

 

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[Dave Rishar]

According to the sample on display at the Maritime Museum of the Atlantic which were taken from the money pit area the coconut fibers are from the Caribbean area.


View attachment 1715787

Did they DNA test those fibers? If not, they may be talking out of their rear ends. (As they did when they mentioned where the treasure must have come from, as no treasure is known to have been recovered. One can't know where a treasure came from if nobody has found it yet and proved that it exists. I would think that this is obvious, but welcome to the Oak Island forum, where we do things a little differently.)

So the Coconut Fibers had to be transported there from the Mediterranean Sea or from the Orient.

If they were from Indian coconuts, sure. If those fibers came from SE Asian coconuts, then the question is more complicated.

If they were from Indian coconuts, that doesn't tell us how they got there. That tells us where they came from. Carbon dating doesn't tell us when they got there. It tells us the earliest date at which they could have got there.

Since no one else was suppose to be over in America before CC in 1492 how did the Coconut Fibers get over here almost 200 years before CC?

It's already an established fact that Europeans had made it to the New World ~500 years before Columbus. This is from real history books, not the "Templars winning wars for the Scots" history books that I'm still waiting for.

But it's an interesting question with no clear answer. We can speculate about that all that we'd like to, and this is fine...just so long as we admit that we're speculating.

I often mention the idea of Icelanders taking coconuts to the New World. I don't personally believe that, but it's a theory that has more circumstantial evidence backing it up than the Templar theory does. Unfortunately for the Icelanders, no popular works of fiction have worked this into their plots. That's exactly why I throw it out there.

 

[gazzahk]

Did they DNA test those fibers? If not, they may be talking out of their rear ends....

You would have to ask them... One would hope that such a reputable museum would check stuff out before making claims..

Here is a link send them an email and ask

https://maritimemuseum.novascotia.ca/

 

[ECS]

...I'm personally more interested in just how much coconut fiber is there, and whether it's from Atlantic or Pacific coconuts.
A little context would go a long way in figuring out how it got there. (Or how it didn't get there!)

Coconut coir, being impervious to damage from salt water, has been used for centuries on ships for ropes and riggings, mats and for fishing nets.
Now how would be coconut coir be found on an island in the Atlantic...
...discarded flotsam and jetsam, snagged fishermen's net...?
The Templars never had an exclusivity on the usage of coconut coir products, and basing a theory that the Templars built a treasure pit on Oak Island on the discovery of coconut coir...

 

[Dave Rishar]

You would have to ask them... One would hope that such a reputable museum would check stuff out before making claims..

One would hope, yes. The statement attached to that photograph indicates otherwise.

 

[somehiker]

"Seems" it's only the author's of the notation's opinion as to the most likely source of the fiber found in the pit.

 

[lokiblossom]

The accuracy of carbon 14 is highly dependent on whether or not the sample was clean or contaminated by outside sources.
The samples of Oak Island coconut coir contained tar and were exposed to salt water and other environmental and atmospheric conditions, also by those who dug into the "money pit".
The carbon 14 test results of the Oak Island coir is not considered as absolutely accurate or correct, and is very questionable.

No C-14 test is considered "absolutely accurate" which is why a range of accuracy is always included. The various C-14 tests of the coconut fibres found on Oak Island do include this range and it all falls after the Viking and before the so-called discovery by Columbus, all well before the introduction of coconuts to the Atlantic Basin!

Cheers, Loki

 

[lokiblossom]

"Seems" it's only the author's of the notation's opinion as to the most likely source of the fiber found in the pit.

View attachment 1716435

Yes, at the time it was not yet known that coconuts were not introduced to anywhere in the Atlantic Basin prior to 1500Ad (Atlantic Basin includes the Mediterranean and the Caribbean).

Cheers, Loki

 

[lokiblossom]

The point that seems to be ignored is that the Templars did not have in their fleet Viking V hull high gunwale vessels.

The Templars did have V hulled vessels in their fleet! Remember Ms. Lord who mentioned that the Templars kept a Fleet at La Rochelle, well away from the battles of the Mediterranean. If you look at a map of France you will notice that La Rochelle is a rather smallish port located on the Atlantic Ocean. Also, in the late 13th century some Galley designs were evolving into vessels more capable of operating under sail in the Mediterranean.

Also important to this discussion is that I never claimed the 18 vessels that sailed from La Rochelle in September of 1307 all traversed the Atlantic Ocean. My premise has always been only two or three vessels. We do have the names of a couple of their ships that were involved by license in trading with the British Isles

Cheers, Loki

 

[ECS]

The Templars did have V hulled vessels in their fleet!
Remember Ms. Lord who mentioned that the Templars kept a Fleet at La Rochelle...

Cite the reference source that states that the Templars absolutely had V-hull vessels.

 

[somehiker]

Yes, at the time it was not yet known that coconuts were not introduced to anywhere in the Atlantic Basin prior to 1500Ad (Atlantic Basin includes the Mediterranean and the Caribbean).

Cheers, Loki

Not to mention that it was also thought the "money pit" was likely to contain a pirate treasure.....Captain Kidd's, as I recall.
As such, a reasonable assumption IMO.

 

[lokiblossom]

High gunwales you say ?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/science...ewfoundland-month-long-Atlantic-crossing.html

Yet for some reason, the crossing was described as treacherous.

That's the vessel my friend crewed on!

Cheers, loki

 

[franklin]

Cite the reference source that states that the Templars absolutely had V-hull vessels.

Maybe you should read up on the "Nabataeans" You may find how the "Knight's Templar" ended up with V shaped boats for the oceans. The Romans got their vessel technology from the "Nabataeans" also. The "Nabataeans" were the sailing people that tried to convince everyone if they sailed far enough they would fall off the edge of the Earth. They also introduced the stories of sea monsters. They did all this so they could do all the shipping from the Orient for themselves and sell to the Romans at enormous prices.

 

[ECS]

Once again, speculation and NOT DOCUMENTED FACT!

 

[ECS]

Not to mention that it was also thought the "money pit" was likely to contain a pirate treasure.....Captain Kidd's, as I recall.
As such, a reasonable assumption IMO.

Also Edward Teach "Blackbeard" was mentioned, and a British Navy tar making naval stores operation which may explain the coconut coir sample that contains tar.
*NOTE* John Smith and Anthony Vaughn (original discovers of the Oak Island pit/ Smith owned Lot 18 and later farmed on the island) in 1848 told Robert Creelman of the TRURO COMPANY that after digging 30 feet they discovered regular 10' spaced log platforms, with coconut fiber and two layers of a putty like substance with layers of stone and charcoal.
John Smith was known to lease the pit digging rights to TRURO.

 

[franklin]

Buy some books and looking for the documentations for yourself. You always want someone else to do the research for you. There it is look for it yourself.

 

[franklin]

Also Edward Teach "Blackbeard" was mentioned, and a British Navy tar making naval stores operation which may explain the coconut coir sample that contains tar.
*NOTE* John Smith and Anthony Vaughn (original discovers of the Oak Island pit/ Smith owned Lot 18 and later farmed on the island) in 1848 told Robert Creelman of the TRURO COMPANY that after digging 30 feet they discovered regular 10' spaced log platforms, with coconut fiber and two layers of a putty like substance with layers of stone and charcoal.
John Smith was known to lease the pit digging rights to TRURO.

I do not think Blackbeard or the British Navy were around in the 14th Century but you may have documentation that says otherwise.

 

[ECS]

I always enjoy your facetious comments, Franklin, almost as much as your speculative information delivered as fact.
*NOTE* John Smith and Anthony Vaughn mentioned that the pit could contain the treasure of Capt. William Kidd.
PS: There is no documented evidence that the Oak Island pit was constructed in the 14th century, unless as you say, "you may have documented evidence that says otherwise".

 

[somehiker]

Also Edward Teach "Blackbeard" was mentioned, and a British Navy tar making naval stores operation which may explain the coconut coir sample that contains tar.
*NOTE* John Smith and Anthony Vaughn (original discovers of the Oak Island pit/ Smith owned Lot 18 and later farmed on the island) in 1848 told Robert Creelman of the TRURO COMPANY that after digging 30 feet they discovered regular 10' spaced log platforms, with coconut fiber and two layers of a putty like substance with layers of stone and charcoal.
John Smith was known to lease the pit digging rights to TRURO.

And those are the details which make it sound more like a multi-stage seawater filtration system to me.
Dirty seawater in from low tide level....forced by tidal surge and wave pressures upward through each of the filter stages towards outlets at high(+) tide level....then downhill to an evaporation bed, probably where the swamp is now. Pretty much an automated system requiring little maintenance, with most of the labor employed in harvesting and packing the clean salt, untainted by algae and seaweed etc, from the evap. bed(s).

 

[ECS]

Buy some books and looking for the documentations for yourself.
You always want someone else to do the research for you.
There it is look for it yourself.

Franklin, you know that I do my own research from all the many times I corrected misinformation that was posted.
AS for buying some books, I have several hundred real history books in my library, not the pseudo history pabulum that presents current populist fable as fact by non degreed quasi historians profiting from the fantasy conspiracy minded reader.
I don't need to look for those "kind" of history books.