Egyptian Democratic Coalition Responds to Obama

[pat-tekker-cat]

LOL! Crispin, it's a cat conundrum!

I don't feel I should need to apologize, if my views may not mirror or reflect yours. I would say I am sorry for that, because I would not want you to feel, that your views are not warranted or valid.
Everyone should be entitled to take their stand unapologetically, imho.
When/if information is presented, that can change a situation or picture, well again imho, I feel everyone also has the liberty to change their mind.

Perceptions (as ammonhotep said earlier), as to any situation, dictates the reality, in/of how one tumbles it(in their own head).
I do feel civil dialogue leads to better understandings. It's all good, till everyone starts wanting to kill each other!
You may be sol on pro o thread, atm.


The Arab nations (not sure which ones, Suadi Arabia?) is stepping up for the Egyptian Army with 12 billion in aid. I believe it was said, we only give around 1 billion or so.
The world has an vested interests in not allowing radical Islam to overtake a government.
Democracy is inclusive and tolerant of ALL religious beliefs. Surely, one could see that a line has to be drawn, when YOUR religious belief is to kill everyone that does not agree or join you.
That sounds more like communism/Hitler.

Very valid point I heard this morning; Egypt WAS willing to have dialogue with the MB. They on the other hand are acting like bully's by violent protests , killing, and DEMANDING, their way be the only way.
Now, they are being arrested and killed, for inciting hate and murder.
You have to see firsthand the BULLY tactics, these uneducated, power driven, and hate filled radical Muslims can resort to, and understand the simple mind-set of oppressed ppl, to really appreciate what is truly going on here.
If the MB feel that "death in service to Allah", is the greatest thing they can live for, then lead them to the soccer stadium. Their death will pave the way for MANY to live, and live in peace and abundance!

Propaganda does influence perceptions in many ME nations. Because the MB rides the coattails of religion to get their way, the rest of the Muslims could be made aware that even their own prophecy has been fulfilled as to their Mahdi. Isa arrived as a thief in the night, and the dijjal is going down! And, it ain't the MB who is going to do it! If there are those that can be easily led with propaganda, well give them some!
My .02 worth.


eta: thanks TH for the history lesson review. Also, I'm not trying to be religious or preachy, if you feel the above statement crosses a line, please remove it. Being that the whole MB is based on radically perverted religious ideas, I was just trying to show, how their own weakness/strengths, could be used against them.

 

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[Treasure_Hunter]

LOL! Crispin, it's a cat conundrum!

I don't feel I should need to apologize, if my views may not mirror or reflect yours. I would say I am sorry for that, because I would not want you to feel, that your views are not warranted or valid.
Everyone should be entitled to take their stand unapologetically, imho.
When/if information is presented, that can change a situation or picture, well again imho, I feel everyone also has the liberty to change their mind.

Perceptions (as ammonhotep said earlier), as to any situation, dictates the reality, in/of how one tumbles it(in their own head).
I do feel civil dialogue leads to better understandings. It's all good, till everyone starts wanting to kill each other!
You may be sol on pro o thread, atm.


The Arab nations (not sure which ones, Suadi Arabia?) is stepping up for the Egyptian Army with 12 billion in aid. I believe it was said, we only give around 1 billion or so.
The world has an vested interests in not allowing radical Islam to overtake a government.
Democracy is inclusive and tolerant of ALL religious beliefs. Surely, one could see that a line has to be drawn, when YOUR religious belief is to kill everyone that does not agree or join you.
That sounds more like communism/Hitler.

Very valid point I heard this morning; Egypt WAS willing to have dialogue with the MB. They on the other hand are acting like bully's by violent protests , killing, and DEMANDING, their way be the only way.
Now, they are being arrested and killed, for inciting hate and murder.
You have to see firsthand the BULLY tactics, these uneducated, power driven, and hate filled radical Muslims can resort to, and understand the simple mind-set of oppressed ppl, to really appreciate what is truly going on here.
If the MB feel that "death in service to Allah", is the greatest thing they can live for, then lead them to the soccer stadium. Their death will pave the way for MANY to live, and live in peace and abundance!

Propaganda does influence perceptions in many ME nations. Because the MB rides the coattails of religion to get their way, the rest of the Muslims could be made aware that even their own prophecy has been fulfilled as to their Mahdi. Isa arrived as a thief in the night, and the dijjal is going down! And, it ain't the MB who is going to do it! If there are those that can be easily led with propaganda, well give them some!
My .02 worth.


eta: thanks TH for the history lesson review. Also, I'm not trying to be religious or preachy, if you feel the above statement crosses a line, please remove it. Being that the whole MB is based on radically perverted religious ideas, I was just trying to show, how their own weakness/strengths, could be used against them.

My original post was not an attack on obama, it was an Egyptian reply to his speech on Egypt. Do a google search on adminstration support for MB.

MB is a radical Muslim terrorist organization, it has been since it was founded 1923, their history speaks for itself, we should never fund or support a terrorist organization no matter who is in the white house.

People need to face the fact we are at war with radical Muslims.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[pat-tekker-cat]

Hey TH, I have a question. I checked a few lists online and could not find mention of them(MB) on it.
Why is the MB not listed on the USA worldwide terrorist lists? I find it a little ironic that only Russia lists the MB as a terrorists group.
We do have Army of Islam listed as TG, but that is the Palestinian group, (is that one and the same as the MB?)


Crispin, sorry I failed to reply to your 2nd question.

wrought
[rawt] Show IPA
verb
1.
Archaic except in some senses. a simple past tense and past participle of work.
adjective
2.
worked.
3.
elaborated; embellished.
4.
not rough or crude.
5.
produced or shaped by beating with a hammer, as iron or silver articles.

I've never had negative connotations attached to that word. I am willing to go with "forged". I feel I should say though, that word seems to have more negative connotations to it, than wrought does. So, it does seem "forged" may fit better! LOL! t.y.


forge
1 [fawrj, fohrj] Show IPA verb, forged, forg·ing. noun
verb (used with object)
1.
to form by heating and hammering; beat into shape.
2.
to form or make, especially by concentrated effort: to forge a friendship through mutual trust.
3.
to imitate (handwriting, a signature, etc.) fraudulently; fabricate a forgery.
verb (used without object)
4.
to commit forgery.
5.
to work at a forge.
6.
(of a horse at a trot) to strike the forefeet with the shoes of the hind feet.

These are both from Webster's. What dictionary you been using?

 

[Crispin]

PTC,

Thanks for the definitions. That is pretty interesting. Perhaps it was my interpretation that had the negative connotation on it. I guess when I think of the word 'wrought' I think of the phrase 'wrought with peril' and when I think of the word 'forge' I think of "forge a union." Even then, those interpretations could go either way. Interesting...

Crispin

 

[Crispin]

My original post was not an attack on obama, it was an Egyptian reply to his speech on Egypt. Do a google search on adminstration support for MB.

MB is a radical Muslim terrorist organization, it has been since it was founded 1923, their history speaks for itself, we should never fund or support a terrorist organization no matter who is in the white house.

People need to face the fact we are at war with radical Muslims.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

TH,

I never called it an attack. I never even insinuated it. I did insinuate that the post was anti-Obama; which, it clearly is. I could pull up thousands of posts that do attack Obama; however, I have been avoiding those threads. I only comment in my friends' threads now. However, PTC does bring up an interesting point. I'm not even saying I am pro-Obama, it really depends on the issue. But, if I was to post a pro-Obama thread would it get deleted? Also, assuming it were to come under instantaneous attack, as PTC has hypothesized, would it get locked down or would those attacking be punished and prevented from doing so? I have read some pretty good articles from Fox and MSNBC recently but I can't seem to remember seeing any of those posted here. Surely, some of our members would like to have an open and honest discussion on some of them. It does get sort of tiresome reading mostly articles from one viewpoint, irregardless of what view point that is.

Thanks,

Crispin

 

[Fletch88]

TH,

I never called it an attack. I never even insinuated it. I did insinuate that the post was anti-Obama; which, it clearly is. I could pull up thousands of posts that do attack Obama; however, I have been avoiding those threads. I only comment in my friends' threads now. However, PTC does bring up an interesting point. I'm not even saying I am pro-Obama, it really depends on the issue. But, if I was to post a pro-Obama thread would it get deleted? Also, assuming it were to come under instantaneous attack, as PTC has hypothesized, would it get locked down or would those attacking be punished and prevented from doing so? I have read some pretty good articles from Fox and MSNBC recently but I can't seem to remember seeing any of those posted here. Surely, some of our members would like to have an open and honest discussion on some of them. It does get sort of tiresome reading mostly articles from one viewpoint, irregardless of what view point that is.

Thanks,

Crispin

Multiple viewpoints? Open and honest discussion? We know that's not allowed on TNet, you have to watch Faux News to get that !

 

[pat-tekker-cat]

PTC,

Thanks for the definitions. That is pretty interesting. Perhaps it was my interpretation that had the negative connotation on it. I guess when I think of the word 'wrought' I think of the phrase 'wrought with peril' and when I think of the word 'forge' I think of "forge a union." Even then, those interpretations could go either way. Interesting...

Crispin

Isn't it pretty much perception and conditioning? I think "forged a check", and "wrought in purity"
I would hope no one would purposely ever try to have someone's civil discussion get shut down. Though, I too, have been guilty of getting a little heated, at times. I prefer to call it "being passionate", rather than "being emotional".
Just perceptions and perspectives. Soldier on.

 

[BosnMate]

Here is what one Egyptian woman thinks about Obama.
The last is not from American news, it's from AsiaNews, and I picked it up off the internet. There are some links, but I don't know if they will work, because I just copied and pasted.

"Cairo (AsiaNews) – At least 58 Christian churches, schools, institutions, homes and shops have been attacked, looted and torched over the last three days by the Muslim Brotherhood and supporters of Mohamed Morsi, the former Egyptian president who was deposed on 3 July . On August 14 the army has tried to evict the sit-in of the Islamists in Rabaa El Nahda Square and Adaweya. In a wave of devastating violence, over 600 people were killed and thousands injured. But violent attacks were also carried out on Catholic, Orthodox, Evangelical churches as well as the homes and shops of Christians, as we have documented

The representatives of the Christian Churches have drawn up a list which we publish below. The list was handed over to AsiaNews by the Press Office of the Catholic Church in Egypt. List at Maggie’s Notebook
Meanwhile, yesterday:
Obama Regime Demands the release of Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood
Yesterday Jay Carney said the administration wants all politically motivated detention to end in Egypt, including former President Morsi -"

 

[Crispin]

One person holding a sign is not news...it is a rant.

 

[BosnMate]

Might be a rant, but she has a point, says it straight forward and well.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Hey TH, I have a question. I checked a few lists online and could not find mention of them(MB) on it.
Why is the MB not listed on the USA worldwide terrorist lists? I find it a little ironic that only Russia lists the MB as a terrorists group.
We do have Army of Islam listed as TG, but that is the Palestinian group, (is that one and the same as the MB?)

FBI Chief: Muslim Brotherhood Supports Terrorism
IPT News
February 10, 2011


Elements of the Muslim Brotherhood, the Islamist group whose ideology has inspired terrorists such as Osama bin Laden, are in the United States and have supported terrorism here and overseas, FBI Director Robert Mueller told a House committee Thursday.

Mueller joined seven other Obama administration intelligence and law enforcement officials at a hearing of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence. They spoke of the Brotherhood's U.S. ties as word spread in Egypt that President Hosni Mubarak was prepared to resign. Mubarak has repeatedly said his administration, in place since 1981, is the one thing keeping an Islamic state led by the Brotherhood from taking over Egypt.

While Mueller, Director of National Intelligence James Clapper and other witnesses spelled out a variety of threats, they and some committee members highlighted the Brotherhood's ties in the United States. It was a significant departure from earlier hearings, which focused on groups more directly involved with terrorism.

"I'm concerned that the Muslim Brotherhood is using peaceful protests in Egypt for a power grab, and our government doesn't seem to grasp their threat," Rep. Sue Myrick, R-N.C., told the committee and the witnesses. "The Muslim Brotherhood isn't a danger because they are terrorists, but because they push an extremist ideology that causes others to commit acts of terrorism."

Clapper agreed that "there are entities associated with the Muslim Brotherhood here in the United States." Mueller told Myrick that he would provide the committee with greater detail on the Brotherhood's activities in closed session.

However, Clapper also characterized the Brotherhood in Egypt as a mostly secular umbrella organization. "The term 'Muslim Brotherhood'...is an umbrella term for a variety of movements, in the case of Egypt, a very heterogeneous group, largely secular, which has eschewed violence and has decried Al Qaeda as a perversion of Islam," Clapper said in response to a question from Myrick. "They have pursued social ends, a betterment of the political order in Egypt, et cetera.....In other countries, there are also chapters or franchises of the Muslim Brotherhood, but there is no overarching agenda, particularly in pursuit of violence, at least internationally."



Clapper's "secular" reference is odd, given the Brotherhood's motto is "Allah is our objective. The Prophet is our leader. The Qur'an is our law. Jihad is our way. Dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope."

In a statement issued after the hearing, Myrick expressed astonishment at Clapper's assessment. ""Either the Administration doesn't know who the Muslim Brotherhood is, which shows incompetence," she said, "or they are apologizing for them, which is inappropriate for those in charge of protecting the American people. Let's be clear – the Muslim Brotherhood is NOT secular."

During the hearing, Myrick said she was also concerned about the Brotherhood's attitudes toward government. "The danger of the Muslim Brotherhood is not just encouraging terrorism through their ideology, but also trying to take over government, so everyone has to succumb and live under their ideology," Myrick said.

The scope of the Brotherhood's vision for the United States was spelled out in a 1991 document called the "Explanatory Memorandum." In that memo, which federal prosecutors introduced as evidence in two trials of the now-defunct Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development, Brotherhood leaders said they planned to create an Islamic state in the United States.

In that document, the Brotherhood's stated goal was "a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and "sabotaging" its miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God's religion is made victorious over all other religions."

The memo also listed 29 organizations working in the United States to further the Brotherhood's goals. They include the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA), the Muslim Students Association (MSA), the North American Islamic Trust (NAIT) and the Islamic Association of Palestine (IAP). The IAP and the Holy Land Foundation shared many members and directors, including those who founded the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR).

Clapper told the committee the U.S. government has no relationship with the Muslim Brotherhood in America. However, In response to a question from Rep. Peter King, R-N.Y., Mueller said "we do not have a relationship with CAIR," although some FBI officials have attended the same events as CAIR representatives. The FBI suspended formal ties with CAIR in 2009, citing CAIR's ties with Hamas, the Middle Eastern terrorist group that controls the government in Gaza, and the ties of some CAIR leaders with Hamas front groups.

Much of the evidence tying CAIR to Hamas, another offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood, was presented during the two trials of the Holy Land Foundation. Five HLF officials were convicted in 2008 of illegally sending millions of dollars to Hamas.

Much of the hearing testimony focused on the threat still posed by al-Qaida, the Islamist terrorist group responsible for the 9/11 attacks. Anwar al-Awlaki, the U.S.-born cleric who now leads al-Qaida unit based in Yemen, al-Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP), has become perhaps the greatest threat, Clapper said.

While AQAP has primarily focused on attacks in Yemen and Saudi Arabia, Clapper said, "it is increasingly devoted to directing and inspiring attacks on the U.S. Homeland and other targets in the West, as well as Western interests in Yemen."

Other witnesses were CIA Director Leon Panetta, Michael Leiter, director of the National Counterterrorism Center; Lt. Gen. Ronald Burgess, director of the Defense Intelligence Agency; Caryn A. Wagner, under secretary for intelligence and analysis, Department of Homeland Security; Thomas A. Ferguson, principal deputy under secretary of Defense for intelligence; and Philip S. Goldberg, assistant secretary of State, Bureau of Intelligence and Research.

Read More: Sue Myrick. Muslim Brotherhood

FBI Chief: Muslim Brotherhood Supports Terrorism :: The Investigative Project on Terrorism

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Pat, it was called a threat in Sept 2007 by Department of Defense.... (Note before election)

Monday September 10, 2007
The Muslim Brotherhood in America Defined as "Threat Organization" in DOD Memo
The following recent, unclassified memorandum, a military intelligence analysis of some of the Holy Land Foundation documents, was sent to me by a friend concerned with these issues. For the first time that I know of, the Muslim Brotherhood organizations in the United States are classified as "threat organization" in an official writing.

It also directly addresses the campaign by Truespeak Institute, led by Jim Giurard, to change the language of the war on terrorism.

J. Michael Waller is an important part of that campaign as well, and, in his recent monograph Fighting the War of Ideas Like a Real War: Messages to Defeat the Terrorists argues, a Giurard does, that one should classify Islamist terrorist attacks as _hirabah_ rather than _jihad_.

It is not an insignificant semantic difference, and its importance is given below, and in Waller's own work. Thanks to the work of Waller and Giurard, the concept is gaining some currency in the U.S. counterterrorism community.

I have done nothing to the document except remove the name of the author who did the analysis, at the request of military officials. While this is circulating widely in the Pentagon and policy making circles, I honored that request. Neither the officer who wrote this nor the official who wrote the introduction had any role in giving it to me.


This document is part of a broad debate that is finally being engaged, on the true nature of the Muslim Brotherhood and its affiliated groups in the United States.

------

*This assessment makes the point that the Muslim Brotherhood should be considered a threat organization and the affiliated US domestic Muslim NGOs and associations identified in the strategy document should likewise be considered part of the Muslim Brotherhood network, that these are “front” functional organizations operating as links and nodes of the overall network.*

*Exceptionally important in the analysis is the role of the “Truespeak” organization and Jim Guirard who has been arguing in DoD circles and academic institutions that the term jihad should be suspended from the GWOT lexicon to be replaced by hiraba. This analysis demonstrates that “Truespeak” contributors are part of the Muslim Brotherhood threat network, with the implication that this entire communication and lexicon effort is part of a strategic disinformation and denial and deception campaign.*

*Those involved in strategic communication or IO, whether senior leaders, practitioners or analysts should take a close note.*

*This analysis begins to provide clear I&W for domestic threats that DoD, DHS and the USG must come to terms with.*

*LTC Joseph C. Myers*
*Senior Army Advisor*
*Air Command and Staff College*
*Maxwell AFB Montgomery, AL*





*ANALYSIS OF MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD’S
GENERAL STRATEGIC GOALS FOR
NORTH AMERICA MEMORANDUM*

*7 September 2007*


*INTRODUCTION*

*The following is a brief analysis of a Muslim Brotherhood document entered into evidence in the U.S. v Holy Land Foundation trial (Trial) that the U.S. Justice Department is currently prosecuting in Federal Court. Analysis is based on this document as well as other publicly available documents. (For a broad offering of Trial documents, see here link no longer active

). The attached documents relate to ISNA and the Trial.*

· *The first document is a Muslim Brotherhood memorandum that was accepted into evidence in the U.S. v Holy Land Foundation (HLF) case. The first 16 pages are in the original Arabic and the second are English language translations of the same. It is dated 22 May 1991 and titled “An Explanatory Memorandum on the General Strategic Goal for the Group in North America” (Memorandum). The document includes an Attachment 1 that contains “a list of our organizations and the organizations of our friends.” *

*Among those noted in the Attachment are ISNA, MSA, AMSS, AMSE, NAIT, IFC, IPAC, IAP, UASR, ICNA (typo in the second listing) and IIIT. ICNA and ISNA are the only two organizations named in the body of the text. ISNA is additionally represented on the list as IFC (ISNA Fiqh Committee – now the Fiqh Council of North America) and IPAC (ISNA Political Awareness Committee).*

*The second document is a signed letter from Members of Congress Pete Hoekstra and Sue Myrick to the Justice Department dated 28 August 2007 formally requesting that Justice stand down from “co-sponsoring” a conference with ISNA due to its very close relationship to the Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas. Justice attended anyhow. The Memorandum was admitted into evidence at the same time the Letter was sent addressing Congressional concerns.*


*DISCUSSION*


*(A) ACCEPTED AS EVIDENCE.*

*It should be noted that the Memorandum met evidentiary standards to be admissible as evidence in a Federal Court of law. *



*(B) THE ENUMERATED ENTITIES ARE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD.*

*As noted, both ICNA and ISNA are identified and described in the body of the Memorandum in these contexts:*

· *The positive development with the brothers in the Islamic Circle in an attempt to reach a unity of merger.*

· *We have the seed for a “comprehensive Dawa’ educational” organization: We have the Dawa’ section in ISNA.*

*The enumerated recognition suggests that ISNA and ICNA, as elements of the entity that drafted the Memorandum, are likewise elements of the Muslim Brotherhood. Additionally, the Memorandum refers to the entities designated in Attachment (1) as currently held possessions:*

· *What encourages us to do that – in addition to the aforementioned – is that we possess “seeds” for each organization from the organization we call for [See attachment (1)].*


*(C) MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD IN CHARGE IN NORTH AMERICA.*

*The Memorandum expressly recognizes the Muslim Brotherhood (Ikkwan) as the controlling element. For example, the first authority identified as the basis of the Memorandum is the Muslim Brotherhood:*

· *The general strategic goal of the Group in America which was approved by the Shura Council and the Organizational Conference for the year 1987 in “Enablement of Islam in North America, meaning: establishing the effective and stable Islamic Movement led by the Muslim Brotherhood which adopts Muslims’ causes domestically and globally, and which works to expand the observant Muslim base, aims at unifying and directing Muslims’ efforts, presents Islam as a civilization alternative, and supports the global Islamic State wherever it is.”*

*Next, the Memorandum expressly identifies the Muslim Brotherhood as the leadership element in implementing the strategic goals:*

· *Also, we must summon and take along “elements” of the general strategic goal of the Group in North America and I will intentionally repeat them in numbers. They are:*

*(1) Establishing an effective and stable Islamic Movement led by the Muslim Brotherhood.*

*The status of the Muslim Brotherhood as being in charge of all Muslim organizations in North America is reinforced in a statement asserting that establishing Islam as a part of America is to be done through a civilization level Jihad:*

· *In order for Islam and its Movement to become “a part of the homeland” in which it lives, “stable” in the land, “rooted” in the spirits and minds of its people, “enabled” in the lives of its society and has firmly-established “organizations” on which the Islamic structure is built and with which the testimony of the civilization is achieved, the Movement must plan and struggle to obtain “the keys” and the tools of this process in carry out this grand mission as a “Civilization Jihadist” responsibility which lies on the shoulders of Muslim and – on top of them – the Muslim Brotherhood in this country.*

*An analysis of the entities designated in Attachment (1) of the Memorandum, along with those entities that can be reasonably assessed to have spun off from them since 1991, should be assessed to see what organizational presence they represent.*


*(D) CIVILIZATION-JIHAD: THE STRATEGIC GOAL OF THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD.*

*Having established its leadership, the Memorandum states the role of the Muslim Brotherhood in North America:*

· *The process of settlement is a “Civilization-Jihadist Process” with all the means. The Ikhwan must understand that their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and “sabotaging” its miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and Allah’s religion is made victorious over all other religions.* *Without this level of understanding, we are not up to this challenge and have not prepared ourselves for Jihad yet. It is a Muslim’s destiny to perform Jihad and work wherever he is and wherever he lands until the final hour comes, and there is not escape from that destiny except for those who chose to slack. But, would the slackers and the Mujahedeen be equal.*

· *As part of the process is “[the] conviction that the success of the settlement of Islam and its Movement in this country [America] is a success to the global Islamic Movement and true support for the sought after state [caliphate] God willing.”*

*The first bullet is a clear threat statement of hostile intent while the second speaks to foreign agency to a transnational movement with stated objectives that overlap with al-Qaeda’s. When assessing members who belong to organizations known to be identified with the Muslim Brotherhood, the inference should be that their designated leaders have knowledge of its identified roles and missions. It is not reasonable to do otherwise.*

*The strategic goal of the Muslim Brotherhood in North America is multifold: the destruction of Western civilization through a long-term civilization-killing Jihad from within (“by their [our] hands”) and through sabotage (“the hands of the believers”) and, secondly; to support the global Islamic movement to establish an Islamic super-state, the caliphate.*

*When conducting outreach with organizations identified as being a party to the “strategic goals” identified in the Memorandum, the gain/loss assessment of associating with them should be undertaken in light of their clearly stated hostile intent that includes the subversion of American institutions through outreach, strategic deception and perception management. To undertake outreach with known identified organizations without knowledge of their objectives is to run the extreme risk of strategic manipulation by declared Jihad entities in ways that fulfill stated Muslim Brotherhood objectives as enumerated in the Memorandum.*


*(E) ENUMERATED MB ORGANIZATIONS AND TRUESPEAK.*

*As part of a presentation designed to change the lexicon of the GWOT (hiraba not Jihad), Jim Guirard explains that his proposed terms and definitions come from a group of “moderate” Muslims and other experts. He provides a list of contributors as part of his handout. Cross-referencing the names from his TrueSpeak list with the list of organizations provided in Attachment (1) of the Memorandum gives cause for concern:*

· *For example, along with ICNA and ISNA, Attachment (1) also lists the Association of Muslim Social Scientists (AMSS), the United Association for Studies and Research (UASR), the International Institute for Islamic Thought (IIIT), the Muslim Student Association (MSA) and the North American Islamic Trust (NAIT).*

*If one were to list all of Guirard’s contributors who are associated with, for example, the Center for the Study of Islam and Democracy (CSID), one might be able to glean a web of Muslim Brotherhood associations. From the TrueSpeak list, it turns out that the following CSID members are also members of identified Muslim Brotherhood entities:*

· *Muqtedar Khan (AMSS, IIIT), Akbar Ahmed (AMSS, IIIT), Anthony Sullivan (AMSS, IIIT), Robert Crane (UASR, IIIT), Asma Afsaruddin (AMSS), and Layla Sein (AMSS, IIIT).*

· *Other CSID members listed in the TrueSpeak brochure are John Esposito and Radwan Masmoudi.*

*If one accepts the Memorandum statement that “the big challenge … is how to turn these seeds or ‘scattered’ elements into comprehensive, stable, ‘settled’ organizations that are connected with our movement,” then it appears that the Muslim Brotherhood succeeded in getting CSID to “fly in our orbit and take orders from our guidance.”*

*Other notables on the TrueSpeak list of “moderate” contributors:*

· *Shaykh Taha Jabir al-Awani. Chairman, North America Fiqh Council (in 1991 the IFC and still an ISNA affiliate) and was a co-founder and President of IIIT. He was also un-indicted coconspirator number 5 in the al-Arian trial.*

· *Shaykh Yusuf al-Qaradawi. [US designated supporter of terrorism] Co-founder of ISNA’s HQ in Boston along with ISNA founder Alamoudi (convicted and incarcerated for material support to terrorism related offenses).*

· *Dr. Aboul-Hakin (Sherman Jackson). Trustee of NAIT and the MSA (Muslim Student Association), Board Member of the Fiqh Council of North America (ISNA affiliate)*

· *Jeremy Henzell. Executive Director AMSS, published by IIIT.*

· *Sayed Syeed. President of MSA, cofounder ISNA, General Secretary AMSS, Director of Academic Outreach IIIT.*

*It is worth noting that when Mr. Guirard “cites” to authority for the terms and definitions he uses, it is to these individuals and not to reviewable published authoritative sources. This is hearsay.*

*Based on the Memorandum, it turns out that many of the individuals that provide TrueSpeak with the terms and definitions – that Guirard would have us use to conceptualize and orient to the enemy - are known to be associated with threat entities that believe “their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and ‘sabotaging’ its miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and Allah’s religion is made victorious over all other religions.” There are sound reasons to question the uncritical adoption of TrueSpeak’s uncritically accepted war on terror lexicon.*



*(F)[1] THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD FOLLOWS THE MILESTONES.*

*As a Muslim Brotherhood document, it should not surprise that it follows Sayyid Qutb’s Milestone formula based on progressive revelation (revelation in stages) as first experienced by Muhammad and the first most perfect generation of Muslims. (For a more detailed explanation, see Appendix C [Abrogation and Progressive Revelation] of Thesis) Hence, Part Four, Section 3 “Understanding the historical stages …” lists 8 stages of development that emphasizes the need for a “gradual and balanced ‘time-frame’” approach that is patterned after the revelation in stages that reflects the “role during the time of Allah’s prophet” who was “the first pioneer of this phenomenon.”*

*Because the Memorandum is understood to be a Muslim Brotherhood work, the lexicon used to define the terms it uses (for example jihad, dawa’, dar al-arqam and Usras) should likewise come from the Muslim Brotherhood dictionary (the “threat vocabulary”).*


*CONCLUSION*

*The HLF Trial is turning up primary source threat documentation and information that provides new insights into global jihad organizations like the Muslim Brotherhood.*

· *These documents are beginning to define the structure and outline of domestic jihad threat entities, associated non-governmental organizations and potential terrorist or insurgent support systems.*

· *The Memorandum also describes aspects of the global jihad’s strategic information warfare campaign and indications of its structure, reach and activities.*

· *Consequently, outreach strategies must be adjusted in the face of credible information that seeming Islamic humanitarian or professional non-governmental organizations may be part of the global jihad with potential for being part of the terrorist or insurgent support system.*

*The Memorandum identifies ISNA as an element of the Muslim Brotherhood that the Justice Department already designated as an unindicted coconspirator that Congress has given formal notice that it has knowledge. Outreach as an end in itself can cause those responsible for its success to so narrowly focus on the outreach relationship that they miss the surrounding events and lose perspective. This could undermine unity of effort in Homeland Security, lead to potential for embarrassment for the USG and legitimize threat organizations by providing them domestic sanctuary. In light of unfolding events, disregarding a Congressional request to suspend attendance at the ISNA conference may result in some uncommonly uncomfortable public testimony.*

[1] From the ‘Umdat al-Salik, Islamic law defines jihad as “war against non-Muslims … signifying warfare to establish the religion.” Qur’an Verse 9:5 is among the most pre-eminent and it states: “But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them and beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem of war; but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them.” Islamic law recognizes no authority except that which comes from Allah (Islam is not just a religion but a complete way of life governed by Islamic law that comes from Allah Who is alone sovereign).

Douglas Farah

This is available on multiple websites for any who do not like my source, it was just easier to copy an paste from here..

THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD'S "GENERAL STRATEGIC GOAL" FOR NORTH AMERICA

In July 2007, seven key leaders of an Islamic charity known as the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development (HLF) went on trial for charges that they had: (a) provided "material support and resources" to a foreign terrorist organization (namely Hamas); (b) engaged in money laundering; and (c) breached the International Emergency Economic Powers Act, which prohibits transactions that threaten American national security. Along with the seven named defendants, the U.S. government released a list of approximately 300 "unindicted co-conspirators" and "joint venturers." During the course of the HLF trial, many incriminating documents were entered into evidence. Perhaps the most significant of these was "An Explanatory Memorandum on the General Strategic Goal for the Group in North America," by the Muslim Brotherhood operative Mohamed Akram. Federal investigators found Akram's memo in the home of Ismael Elbarasse, a founder of the Dar Al-Hijrah mosque in Falls Church, Virginia, during a 2004 search. Elbarasse was a member of the Palestine Committee, which the Muslim Brotherhood had created to support Hamas in the United States. Written sometime in 1987 but not formally published until May 22, 1991, Akram's 18-page document listed the Brotherhood’s 29 likeminded "organizations of our friends" that shared the common goal of dismantling American institutions and turning the U.S. into a Muslim nation. These "friends" were identified by Akram and the Brotherhood as groups that could help convince Muslims "that their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and 'sabotaging' its miserable house by their hands ... so that ... God's religion [Islam] is made victorious over all other religions." Akram was well aware that in the U.S., it would be extremely difficult to promote Islam by means of terror attacks. Thus the “grand jihad” that he and his Brotherhood comrades envisioned was not a violent one involving bombings and shootings, but rather a stealth (or “soft”) jihad aiming to impose Islamic law (Sharia) over every region of the earth by incremental, non-confrontational means, such as working to “expand the observant Muslim base”; to “unif[y] and direc[t] Muslims' efforts”; and to “present Islam as a civilization alternative.” At its heart, Akram's document details a plan to conquer and Islamize the United States – not as an ultimate objective, but merely as a stepping stone toward the larger goal of one day creating “the global Islamic state.” In line with this objective, Akram and the Brotherhood resolved to "settle" Islam and the Islamic movement within the United States, so that the Muslim religion could be "enabled within the souls, minds and the lives of the people of the country.” Akram explained that this could be accomplished “through the establishment of firmly-rooted organizations on whose bases civilization, structure and testimony are built.” He urged Muslim leaders to make “a shift from the collision mentality to the absorption mentality,” meaning that they should abandon any tactics involving defiance or confrontation, and seek instead to implant into the larger society a host of seemingly benign Islamic groups with ostensibly unobjectionable motives; once those groups had gained a measure of public acceptance, they would be in a position to more effectively promote societal transformation by the old Communist technique of “boring from within.” “The heart and the core” of this strategy, said Akram, was contingent upon these groups' ability to develop “a mastery of the art of 'coalitions.'” That is, by working synergistically they could complement, augment, and amplify one another's efforts. Added Akram: “The big challenge that is ahead of us is how to turn these seeds or 'scattered' elements into comprehensive, stable, 'settled' organizations that are connected with our Movement and which fly in our orbit and take orders from our guidance.” The ultimate objective was not only an enlarged Muslim presence, but also implementation of the Brotherhood objectives of transforming pluralistic societies, particularly America, into Islamic states, and sweeping away Western notions of legal equality, freedom of conscience, freedom of religion, and freedom of speech. Akram and the Brotherhood understood that in order to succeed in this endeavor, they needed to appeal to different strata of the American population in different ways; that whereas some people could be influenced by messages delivered from a religious perspective, others would be more responsive to messages delivered by educators, or bankers, or political figures, or journalists, etc. Thus, Akram's blueprint for the advancement of the Islamic movement stressed the need to form a coalition of groups coming from the worlds of education; religious proselytization; political activism; audio and video production; print media; banking and finance; the physical sciences; the social sciences; professional and business networking; cultural affairs; the publishing and distribution of books; children and teenagers; women's rights; vocational concerns; and jurisprudence. By promoting the Islamic movement on such a wide variety of fronts, the Brotherhood and its allies could multiply exponentially their influence. Toward that end, the Akram/Brotherhood “Explanatory Memorandum” named the following 29 groups as the organizations they believed could collaborate effectively to destroy America from within – “if they all march according to one plan”: Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) ISNA Fiqh Committee (now known as the Fiqh Council of North America) ISNA Political Awareness Committee Muslim Youth of North America Muslim Students Association of the U.S. and Canada Association of Muslim Scientists and Engineers Islamic Medical Association (of North America) Islamic Teaching Center Malaysian Islamic Study Group Foundation for International Development North American Islamic Trust Islamic Centers Division American Trust Publications Audio-Visual Center Islamic Book Service Islamic Circle of North America Muslim Arab Youth Association Islamic Association for Palestine United Association for Studies and Research International Institute of Islamic Thought Muslim Communities Association Association of Muslim Social Scientists (of North America) Islamic Housing Cooperative Muslim Businessmen Association Islamic Education Department Occupied Land Fund (later known as the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development) Mercy International Association Baitul Mal Inc. Islamic Information Center (of America) By setting up these many front groups, the Muslim Brotherhood was the Communist Party tactic of creating interlocking front groups during the Cold War in order to confuse its enemies and make it more difficult to combat. The Muslim Brotherhood's "General Strategic Goal" for North America - Discover the Networks

 

[Ammonhotep]

Of course the MB is a problem organization and is dangerous. I don't think anyone has disputed that.

I want to see real sources proving Obama supports the MB. I don't count the correct suggestion that the MB should be included in the political process. Of course they should be. It's both anti-democratic and dangerous to do otherwise as it would simply push them underground. Deprived of a public voice, they would become even more dangerous.

So, again, how has Obama actually supported the MB? Either post legitimate sources or stop the false claims.





.

 

[Ammonhotep]

I just want to know where those Egyptians got all those automatic weapons.....Holder??

Libya.

 

[pat-tekker-cat]

Hey Ammo, hope you are safe and well. Ok, I'll smack at the hornets nest first. Please forgive my simple mindedness.
I don't think that any actual proofs will be found till perhaps yrs later. There seems to be enough "duck poo" laying around, that one could logically conclude, there is a duck around.

While it is not proof proof, many are wondering, "HOW", how in the middle of an IRS scandal, and knowing how difficult it is to get a 501c pushed through, did this get special treatment?
Lois Lerner approved exemption for Obama brother's 'charity' | The Daily Caller

As well, it CAN be construed as a good thing, that he would ask for political prisoners to be released, but to name Morsi and single him out, when the populous of Egypt is not in agreement, why? I understand these are just perceptions, not actual proof.
Good Grief! Obama Regime Demands Egypt Release Muslim Brotherhood and Morsi | The Gateway Pundit

If I personally, had proof, I would have done contacted appropriate persons. It just seems as if our king, is well protected, and no one is going to stick their neck out, to bring him down(or reign him in). Perhaps it is others working within government and business, pulling puppet strings.
It's hard to figure out, exactly who all are the players in this exchange, and/or, what and who they stand for.

There is also this other thread. I am not familiar with many of these "sources", so take it with a grain of salt or with a truckload of it. I read every bit of info TH put up in this thread (minus a few links), I couldn't get through this whole other thread, BUT, if ANY of it be true, why is there no action taken? I know some of it is just he says she says, but then again, how and where are we to draw reasonable conclusion from?
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/s...t-see-list-252-well-sourced-obama-issues.html


This country throws money around, all over the world, that seems to be for naught. Instead of funding and arming other nations around the world, why don't we worry about funding and arming Americans?
We bail out and rebuild other cities world-wide(or attempt to), and yet we have one of our own cities going bankrupt. To me, imho, it don't seem right.
IT SEEMS as if, our government is doing everything it can to disarm and bankrupt US.

While one can not ask another to PROVE a negative, are you able to shed some light as to WHY YOU feel, he has not crossed lines?
Thank you and take care and be safe.

 

[Crispin]

Hey Ammo, hope you are safe and well. Ok, I'll smack at the hornets nest first. Please forgive my simple mindedness.
I don't think that any actual proofs will be found till perhaps yrs later. There seems to be enough "duck poo" laying around, that one could logically conclude, there is a duck around.

While it is not proof proof, many are wondering, "HOW", how in the middle of an IRS scandal, and knowing how difficult it is to get a 501c pushed through, did this get special treatment?
Lois Lerner approved exemption for Obama brother's 'charity' | The Daily Caller

As well, it CAN be construed as a good thing, that he would ask for political prisoners to be released, but to name Morsi and single him out, when the populous of Egypt is not in agreement, why? I understand these are just perceptions, not actual proof.
Good Grief! Obama Regime Demands Egypt Release Muslim Brotherhood and Morsi | The Gateway Pundit

If I personally, had proof, I would have done contacted appropriate persons. It just seems as if our king, is well protected, and no one is going to stick their neck out, to bring him down(or reign him in). Perhaps it is others working within government and business, pulling puppet strings.
It's hard to figure out, exactly who all are the players in this exchange, and/or, what and who they stand for.

There is also this other thread. I am not familiar with many of these "sources", so take it with a grain of salt or with a truckload of it. I read every bit of info TH put up in this thread (minus a few links), I couldn't get through this whole other thread, BUT, if ANY of it be true, why is there no action taken? I know some of it is just he says she says, but then again, how and where are we to draw reasonable conclusion from?
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/s...t-see-list-252-well-sourced-obama-issues.html


This country throws money around, all over the world, that seems to be for naught. Instead of funding and arming other nations around the world, why don't we worry about funding and arming Americans?
We bail out and rebuild other cities world-wide(or attempt to), and yet we have one of our own cities going bankrupt. To me, imho, it don't seem right.
IT SEEMS as if, our government is doing everything it can to disarm and bankrupt US.

While one can not ask another to PROVE a negative, are you able to shed some light as to WHY YOU feel, he has not crossed lines?
Thank you and take care and be safe.

PTC,
That is the most well thought out post I have seen in a long time. It was also extremelly polite. I hope others can model this behavior. I mean all that sincerely. One side point, from one scholar to another: I know that you don't like Obama, but referring to him as "our king" lessons the credibility of your argument, imho. You made so many good points in that post I feel referring to the president like that detracts from them. Just my opinion, it is what it is...

Crispin

 

[pat-tekker-cat]

PTC,
That is the most well thought out post I have seen in a long time. It was also extremelly polite. I hope others can model this behavior. I mean all that sincerely. One side point, from one scholar to another: I know that you don't like Obama, but referring to him as "our king" lessons the credibility of your argument, imho. You made so many good points in that post I feel referring to the president like that detracts from them. Just my opinion, it is what it is...

Crispin

Thank you crispin, I was typing so fast, the thesaurus in my head, just defaulted to that word.
At the time, I guess it seemed appropriate, in that he seems almost, god-like and untouchable.
Kinda like, HOW DARE anyone question him(the president, that is).
I didn't mean to faux-paw.

eta: it's not that I don't like him, as a person, human being, and neighbor. Yes, I try to see the good in everyone and everything, till tumbled and proved to be otherwise. His track record of actions, is what leave me questioning him and his motivations. He is human like everyone, (I hope), and can be subject to the same human frailties, many of our politicians find themselves succumbing to, imho.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Obama’s brother: Muslim Brotherhood leader?

Speaking yesterday on Bitna al-Kibir, a live TV show, Tahani al-Gebali, Vice President of the Supreme Constitutional Court in Egypt, said the time was nearing when all the conspiracies against Egypt would be exposed—conspiracies explaining why the Obama administration is so vehemently supportive of the Muslim Brotherhood, whose terrorism has, among other atrocities, caused the destruction of some 80 Christian churches in less than one week.

Al-Gebali referred to “documents and proofs” which Egypt’s intelligence agencies possess and how “the time for them to come out into the open has come.” In the course of her discussion on how these documents record massive financial exchanges between international bodies and the Muslim Brotherhood, she said: “Obama’s brother is one of the architects of investment for the international organization of the Muslim Brotherhood.”

Here the confused host stopped her, asking her to repeat what she just said, which she did, with complete confidence, adding “If the matter requires it, then we must inform our people"—apparently a reference to Obama’s support for the Brotherhood against the state of Egypt, which is causing the latter to call all bets off, that is, causing Egyptian officials to spill the beans as to the true nature of the relationship between the U.S., the Brotherhood, and Egypt.

She did not mention which of the U.S president’s brother’s she was referring to, but earlier it was revealed that Obama’s brother, Malik Obama, was running an African nonprofit closely linked to the Brotherhood as well as the genocidal terrorist of Sudan, Omar al-Bashir.


http://www.jihadwatch.org/2013/08/obamas-brother-muslim-brotherhood-leader.html
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Obama’s brother: Muslim Brotherhood leader?

Speaking yesterday on Bitna al-Kibir, a live TV show, Tahani al-Gebali, Vice President of the Supreme Constitutional Court in Egypt, said the time was nearing when all the conspiracies against Egypt would be exposed—conspiracies explaining why the Obama administration is so vehemently supportive of the Muslim Brotherhood, whose terrorism has, among other atrocities, caused the destruction of some 80 Christian churches in less than one week.

Al-Gebali referred to “documents and proofs” which Egypt’s intelligence agencies possess and how “the time for them to come out into the open has come.” In the course of her discussion on how these documents record massive financial exchanges between international bodies and the Muslim Brotherhood, she said: “Obama’s brother is one of the architects of investment for the international organization of the Muslim Brotherhood.”

Here the confused host stopped her, asking her to repeat what she just said, which she did, with complete confidence, adding “If the matter requires it, then we must inform our people"—apparently a reference to Obama’s support for the Brotherhood against the state of Egypt, which is causing the latter to call all bets off, that is, causing Egyptian officials to spill the beans as to the true nature of the relationship between the U.S., the Brotherhood, and Egypt.

She did not mention which of the U.S president’s brother’s she was referring to, but earlier it was revealed that Obama’s brother, Malik Obama, was running an African nonprofit closely linked to the Brotherhood as well as the genocidal terrorist of Sudan, Omar al-Bashir.


http://www.jihadwatch.org/2013/08/obamas-brother-muslim-brotherhood-leader.html


Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Obama’s brother: Muslim Brotherhood leader?

Speaking yesterday on Bitna al-Kibir, a live TV show, Tahani al-Gebali, Vice President of the Supreme Constitutional Court in Egypt, said the time was nearing when all the conspiracies against Egypt would be exposed—conspiracies explaining why the Obama administration is so vehemently supportive of the Muslim Brotherhood, whose terrorism has, among other atrocities, caused the destruction of some 80 Christian churches in less than one week.

Al-Gebali referred to “documents and proofs” which Egypt’s intelligence agencies possess and how “the time for them to come out into the open has come.” In the course of her discussion on how these documents record massive financial exchanges between international bodies and the Muslim Brotherhood, she said: “Obama’s brother is one of the architects of investment for the international organization of the Muslim Brotherhood.”

Here the confused host stopped her, asking her to repeat what she just said, which she did, with complete confidence, adding “If the matter requires it, then we must inform our people"—apparently a reference to Obama’s support for the Brotherhood against the state of Egypt, which is causing the latter to call all bets off, that is, causing Egyptian officials to spill the beans as to the true nature of the relationship between the U.S., the Brotherhood, and Egypt.

She did not mention which of the U.S president’s brother’s she was referring to, but earlier it was revealed that Obama’s brother, Malik Obama, was running an African nonprofit closely linked to the Brotherhood as well as the genocidal terrorist of Sudan, Omar al-Bashir.


http://www.jihadwatch.org/2013/08/obamas-brother-muslim-brotherhood-leader.html



Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2