architecad
Hero Member
I'm dying waiting this trial be over and see all $500M of coins be back at home(Spain). I will be there to celebrate, cover a news video shooting, drink wine and see Flamenco dancer on any plaza.
Odyssey Marine Article...
- Thread starter jeff k
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Salvor6
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Archcad WE will be celebrating when the coins go at auction next year at the Orlando coin show. The Flamenco dancers will be bidding.
Jeff, according to Amrhein, he found the exact spot of the La Galga in a sand dune on shore. That means Sea Hunt found a different ship but Spain still prevented them from doing salvage work on a wreck they didn't even identify!
Jeff, according to Amrhein, he found the exact spot of the La Galga in a sand dune on shore. That means Sea Hunt found a different ship but Spain still prevented them from doing salvage work on a wreck they didn't even identify!
architecad
Hero Member
Salvor
Don't be stupid, you, you hunting activities and the Floridian shipwreck hunter had been bid for your own people already. Remember, I'm waiting for those coins be in auction since were found(stole) by your people(Odyssey) but still I'm waiting.
Flamenco is shown in Miami every weekend but I understand, you hate Miami like much Floridian there. I'm proud of those ancestor but not for your brotherhood of theft.
architecad
Hero Member
Hey,..To all Odyssey advocate
Today, the King of Spain arrived in White house to meet with the president Obama, just go there and makes all proper complain about the $500M's trials, it's the best moment to do it, I wish to see there protesting Jeff K.
Today, the King of Spain arrived in White house to meet with the president Obama, just go there and makes all proper complain about the $500M's trials, it's the best moment to do it, I wish to see there protesting Jeff K.
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- Thread starter
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From the Sub-Arch Board.
"In early February I spend two wonderful days with Greg Stemm and the Odyssey
team. Greg is making an enormous effort to publish his work, and I felt
that his attitude makes him a player in our field, whether we like it or
not, and accepted to join him in New Orleans for the 2010's Shipwreck Track.
In the past 15 years we have been throwing tarts at each other’s faces
because we don’t have anything to discuss. Treasure hunters’ work is often
involved in smoke – I cannot resist teasing Pete here, and his little secret
report, that only Jan-Peter “Harry Potter” Balkenende can see
).
To try to find out what THs do is difficult. If we ask too many questions
they send us letters from their lawyers, or make threats, etc. In the
process I learned that in the UK it is a crime “to ask malicious questions”
) I am not kidding you: a guy with a curly wig wrote me saying exactly that.
Even when THs publish reports – and some have done it in the past, which is
a lot more than we can say for many archaeologists – it is difficult
criticize them in a scholarly way without worsening the bad blood between
us: no matter how much they try, most treasure hunters have an antiquarian
approach, focusing on artifacts, while we aim at “reconstructing past human
activity based…”
But now Greg has hired a bunch of competent archaeologists, who genuinely
care for the underwater cultural heritage and are willing to engage in
constructive brainstorming.
I do not agree with them on many instances and I strongly oppose what
Odyssey does, etc., but now we all know what Odyssey does, and they have
gained the right to ask archaeologists for their reports, and their ethics,
and their little clans, and the legitimacy of their little clan’s mandarins,
and their little secrets, and their little tribal wars…
I am looking forward to be a cheerful participant in these discussions, as
always, and I think that this time we may actually be doing something
constructive: we need standards (the Annex of the UNESCO Convention is a
good starting point).
Odyssey is raising the standards! This is going to be funny to watch.)
Filipe Castro"
"In early February I spend two wonderful days with Greg Stemm and the Odyssey
team. Greg is making an enormous effort to publish his work, and I felt
that his attitude makes him a player in our field, whether we like it or
not, and accepted to join him in New Orleans for the 2010's Shipwreck Track.
In the past 15 years we have been throwing tarts at each other’s faces
because we don’t have anything to discuss. Treasure hunters’ work is often
involved in smoke – I cannot resist teasing Pete here, and his little secret
report, that only Jan-Peter “Harry Potter” Balkenende can see
).To try to find out what THs do is difficult. If we ask too many questions
they send us letters from their lawyers, or make threats, etc. In the
process I learned that in the UK it is a crime “to ask malicious questions”
) I am not kidding you: a guy with a curly wig wrote me saying exactly that.Even when THs publish reports – and some have done it in the past, which is
a lot more than we can say for many archaeologists – it is difficult
criticize them in a scholarly way without worsening the bad blood between
us: no matter how much they try, most treasure hunters have an antiquarian
approach, focusing on artifacts, while we aim at “reconstructing past human
activity based…”
But now Greg has hired a bunch of competent archaeologists, who genuinely
care for the underwater cultural heritage and are willing to engage in
constructive brainstorming.
I do not agree with them on many instances and I strongly oppose what
Odyssey does, etc., but now we all know what Odyssey does, and they have
gained the right to ask archaeologists for their reports, and their ethics,
and their little clans, and the legitimacy of their little clan’s mandarins,
and their little secrets, and their little tribal wars…
I am looking forward to be a cheerful participant in these discussions, as
always, and I think that this time we may actually be doing something
constructive: we need standards (the Annex of the UNESCO Convention is a
good starting point).
Odyssey is raising the standards! This is going to be funny to watch.
)Filipe Castro"
aquanut
Bronze Member
It is clear to me that the ONLY reason Spain is interested in this wreck , or any of the others, is because there is treasure aboard. Treasure that can be converted into MONEY! There is NO cultural or historical value here. So all you bleeding hearts, and you know who you are, have absolutely no reason to celebrate the loss of treasure to the finder. I still stand on the position that if given the opportunity and the means, that all of us serious treasure hunters are better equipped than the state archaeologists to hunt for and salvage old wrecks. Let's have a little game here. How many wrecks have the archaeologists found? How many wrecks have the treasure hunters found?
Who has donated the most treasure and artifacts to the state and various museums? Who has enlightened the world to submerged history? I GUARANTY YOU it was NOT the archaeological community! The archaeologists have contributed greatly, but only after someone else has made the discovery. So get off your arrogant High Horse!
...Aquanut
Who has donated the most treasure and artifacts to the state and various museums? Who has enlightened the world to submerged history? I GUARANTY YOU it was NOT the archaeological community! The archaeologists have contributed greatly, but only after someone else has made the discovery. So get off your arrogant High Horse!
...Aquanut
Vox veritas
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aquanut said:
Aquanut, I agree with you about "some" of the archaeologists. The underwater archeology is poor, no money but plenty of laws (would be interesting to make a nice museum of laws). The problem is that UNESCO suggests to have the money to start and finish projects, but no money. It's like the snake biting its tail.
About Odyssey, they planted storm and now we see all the results. And this can not be denied. They razed and alarmed institutions, universities, UNESCO, the international community of archaeologists giving weapons where and when did not. Have aroused the sleeping lion. Nice work for treasure hunters.
Cheers VV
aquanut
Bronze Member
O.K.
So you think Odyessy was wrong. I think they knew as soon as Spain got wind of "TREASURE" that they were going to have a problem. I would have done exactly what they did. Spain, nor anyone else, for that matter has claim to unidentified treasure. The ship was not in evidence and until treasure is brought to the surface, who in the hell can determine its source. I also disagree with these laws of late where governments can lay broad claims and step in to make a salvor look like a criminal.
By the Way... I don't see where Universities, Museums, UNESCO, Institutions or archaeologists should concern themselves over a bunch of coins with the same date on them. Where is the cultural/historical value? Is it perhaps in the repetitive artwork on the coins?
Aquanut
So you think Odyessy was wrong. I think they knew as soon as Spain got wind of "TREASURE" that they were going to have a problem. I would have done exactly what they did. Spain, nor anyone else, for that matter has claim to unidentified treasure. The ship was not in evidence and until treasure is brought to the surface, who in the hell can determine its source. I also disagree with these laws of late where governments can lay broad claims and step in to make a salvor look like a criminal.
By the Way... I don't see where Universities, Museums, UNESCO, Institutions or archaeologists should concern themselves over a bunch of coins with the same date on them. Where is the cultural/historical value? Is it perhaps in the repetitive artwork on the coins?
Aquanut
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Voc, Odyssey was not, and is not wrong! I would have done the same...
Tom
Tom
Vox veritas
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aquanut said:
Aquanut,
Time will show that the big boss of Odyssey are wolves in sheep.
The "big move" began with the subject JUNO / GALGA, who was the first step. Strangely enough scratch every nugget of gold from the bowels of the earth with many sacrifices (I've been in many mining camps in Bolivia, Peru, Paraguay, etc.). But knowing that there are 125,000 tons of gold from shipwrecks on the bottom of the sea nothing is done!
From 1998-2005 TH hardly work in Florida. NPS, archaeologists, Spain, Bolivia, Peru, descendants, all claim an ounce of gold. What happened from 1998-2005? JUNO / GALGA and Odyssey.
This is a reality, like it or not.
signumops
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Italy, Greece, and another... what would that be... hmmm, oh yes, Spain! All in the Euro tank at the moment, being 'underwater' (pardon the pun) with their national debt. Let's see now... hmmm... yes the United States as well! Then there's the rest of the European Union who don't think much of bailing us out. Good for them. They are coming to their senses. So here is a pot of money, lying on the sea floor, but what part of the sea floor? Is it England's sea floor, or Spain's sea floor? OR maybe Portugal's sea floor. And, its not phoney greenbacks... its real SILVER, with real VALUE! The whole Black Swan issue is a macro-cosmic stage of current political events at the global level.
There would be no argument on this Black Swan issue if it were not for the moronic progressives currently running the criminal enterprise in Washington. Were it not for them, the constructive abandonment of the wreck in international waters would already be recognized by American courts and the salvage would be divied up by Odyssey and they would be on to bigger things.
It will change. The European Union will come apart for the sake of a few dollars, UNESCO will fade from the North American continent, the NPS will be relegated to mowing lawns and feeding the bears, the Chinese will own the Smithsonian and Greg Stemm will be selling bulk silver to them. At the moment, what you have is all of us working folks (that would be the salvage community) being plucked from the top and the bottom.
There would be no argument on this Black Swan issue if it were not for the moronic progressives currently running the criminal enterprise in Washington. Were it not for them, the constructive abandonment of the wreck in international waters would already be recognized by American courts and the salvage would be divied up by Odyssey and they would be on to bigger things.
It will change. The European Union will come apart for the sake of a few dollars, UNESCO will fade from the North American continent, the NPS will be relegated to mowing lawns and feeding the bears, the Chinese will own the Smithsonian and Greg Stemm will be selling bulk silver to them. At the moment, what you have is all of us working folks (that would be the salvage community) being plucked from the top and the bottom.
aquanut said:
Aquanut, here are the wrecks I have found so far:
1) Angra A (late 19th century)
2) Angra B (mid-16th century)
3) Angra C (mid 17th century)
4) Angra D (late 16th century)
5) Nossa Senhora da Luz (1615)
6) HMS Pallas (1782)
7) l'Astrée (1796)
8) Lidador (1878)
9) Caroline (1901)
also, I have pinpointed the location of 4 other wrecks, which I intend to find in the near future: a Spanish galleon (1589), a VOC treasure ship (1626) and a french/spanish brig (1783).
Tell me: how many wrecks have you found so far?
aquanut
Bronze Member
Alexandre, I have found two, both unidentified. However, the limitations of my personal budget shouldn't be of any concern to you.
Did you find your wrecks yourself, or with the help of the private community?
Aquanut
Did you find your wrecks yourself, or with the help of the private community?
Aquanut
Besides Lidador, which was sitting on the middle of a bay (unidentified and undated), all other were found by careful archival research and a lot of eyeballing.
The finding of the "Nossa Senhora da Luz", a Portuguese Eastindiaman, for example, took me almost 4 years (I was really searching intensively for it, though).
If yours are still unidentified, to what period do they belong to?
The finding of the "Nossa Senhora da Luz", a Portuguese Eastindiaman, for example, took me almost 4 years (I was really searching intensively for it, though).
If yours are still unidentified, to what period do they belong to?
Salvor6
Silver Member
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Filipe Castro was one of the biggest critics of commercial treasure hunters. Now he is coming to his senses. After seeing the quality of the archaeological work that Odyssey is doing he cannot find a fault. Thats the future of shipwreck salvage and institutional archaeologists should take note. Odyssey employs more archaeologists than INA, they publish papers for the people to see and they display artifacts to the public. After all, its the peoples cultural heritage.
Salvor6
Silver Member
- Feb 5, 2005
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- Primary Interest:
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Alexandre, how many artifacts from those wrecks are in your private collection?
SEAHUNTER
Hero Member
Alexandre
If you have found all these wrecks and you are a archaeologist, then I am sure you have photographed everything and have reports on everything you have recovered, or have you recovered or learned anything? Publishing your photos and reports here on tnet will actually give you some credibility.
Seahunter
If you have found all these wrecks and you are a archaeologist, then I am sure you have photographed everything and have reports on everything you have recovered, or have you recovered or learned anything? Publishing your photos and reports here on tnet will actually give you some credibility.
Seahunter
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