ITS REAL!!! ITS REAL!!! 170 YEAR OLD North Carolina Gold Coin!! *NEW PICTURES*

vthepresident

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Dec 30, 2007
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IT'S REAL!!! IT'S REAL!!! 170 YEAR OLD North Carolina Gold Coin!! *NEW PICTURES*

You guys are probably all going to make fun of me. How many times does some clown post a picture of a coin he or she bought at a yard sale or a pawn shop that turns out to be a replica or a car wash token? At least fifty times a day.
goldcoinreverse.jpg

goldcoinfront.jpg


Well, I am hoping that I am not that clown. However, I am fully prepared to don my polka dotted suit and put on my makeup. I can promise you I will be the sad kind of clown. Definitely not the happy kind. Here is my story,

After enjoying a most excellent day off from work with the first lady, we had one more stop to look at quilting supplies for her before we went home to eat some of her delicious spaghetti casserole. Keep in mind, she was so kind as to let me purchase a coin earlier in the day to add to my "19th Century Coins" type set (1877 seated half dollar). So, I was definitely not going to be in the coin market again for a while. Anyway, I said, "Can we swing by the pawn shop?" There is a nice pawn shop right down the road from our place, and the guy doesn't pay much attention to the dates on the coins he gets. He normally buys and sells based on silver and gold weight alone. She most graciously said "yes" and in we went. The place was crawling with pawners, so we had to wait for a while to get to the counter that has coins in it. I noticed two things...

#1. There were a lot of coins there that weren't there about a week ago. Normally the guys has a little display with 10 or 15 coins in it. Today there were 4 double eagles, a large stack of silver dollars, and many various older silver coins. It looked like a good portion of a collection had been turned in.

#2. There was another coin person there ahead of me shopping the case. The guy was discussing one coin in particular that I gathered might be a gold one. The shopper was struggling with the same decision I would soon be struggling with. At last, I heard him say, " I will go home and research this, and then I'll probably come back for it."
My interest was now perked.

After a thug bought a gun and a Mexican guy hocked a guitar, it was our turn. I know the owner pretty well, and he greeted me as he got the coin display out for me. The first lady and I perused the contents and I immediately found the gold coin. At first I thought it was a foreign coin, but when I flipped it, I saw "Carolina Gold" on the back. I thought right away it was probably a replica. However, not to be daunted, I asked the owner if he had tested the gold content and what the price was. He said he had not tested it but we could right there on the spot. He wanted $55, which was the price of the weight in gold. I didn't want him to scratch it to test it, so I trusted his eye for real gold and moved on. I wasn't about to ask for $55 more dollars from the first lady for more coins, so I paid the guy $1.60 for a busted up holed capped bust dime and a busted up holed seated dime and we left.

But it nagged at me. In fact, it chewed at me and pictures in my head appeared of redbook pages chronicling territorial issue gold coins and some other dude purchasing it before me. In the end, the First Lady convinced ME that we should go get it just in case it was real. So we did. I now own it. It looks just like the pictures in the Red Book. It is a Rutherford Bechtler gold dollar. Or a replica. Please, Treasurenet experts! Please tell me it's real!

If it's not, so be it, but I'm hoping the gold content will make it worth something even if it is more modern.

Any input will be appreciated,
V
 

Upvote 0

Historyhound

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Nov 2, 2006
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Re: Please Please Please be real!

rhedden said:
I was also going to suggest ANACS, due to the small ding. I just sent a group of early half dimes there which had similar dings. And yes, the dealer was trying to steal it for $150, no doubt there.


Dude, even with the ding, it's worth 10x that much at the very least. If you sell it, I'd suggest a Herritage Specialty Auction or maybe even one at Sotheby's. Ya never know what's gonna happen when a new, previously undocumented coin, like this one, hits the market. Sky's the limit with that one dude!!!! CONGRATS!!!
 

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vthepresident

vthepresident

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Re: Please Please Please be real!

I thought $150 was a significant lowball. The guy who said that was a huge tool anyway. It made me EXTREMELY nervous to watch the coin disappear into a package and be handed over the counter to the mailman today. I insured it well, so even if something does happen, I've got that going for me. But honestly, the quality of my collection has gone up by leaps and bounds just by including this one coin, so I would much rather have the coin than the money. Now that the prospect of being able to assign it an accurate value is near, I am finding myself very hesitant to sell. I would definitely be very sad to see it go.

Here are my last pictures without the slab
goldcoin002.jpg

goldcoin003.jpg

goldcoin006.jpg

We'll just wait and see.
V
 

Historyhound

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Re: Please Please Please be real!

There is just one extreme negative about the authentication. I'm not trying to rain on your parade, but there is a chance, that it may be a previously documented coin, that was part of a theft and possibly confiscated and returned to it's rightful owner if it's been reported stolen. Gotta remember, it is a pawn shop find. Ya never know. Just keep your fingers crossed!!
 

Brett

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May 8, 2008
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Re: Please Please Please be real!

Historyhound said:
There is just one extreme negative about the authentication. I'm not trying to rain on your parade, but there is a chance, that it may be a previously documented coin, that was part of a theft and possibly confiscated and returned to it's rightful owner if it's been reported stolen. Gotta remember, it is a pawn shop find. Ya never know. Just keep your fingers crossed!!

Let's just hope that if that DID happen the owner would pay out a hefty reward.

Amazing story! It's got to be real!! Shame on that dealer trying to rape you... you should post who he is so everyone will stay away from him.
 

mikewaz

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May 9, 2008
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Re: Please Please Please be real!

Sure looks like a keeper! I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
Good Luck!
Mike
 

Admiral de Salee

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Re: Please Please Please be real!

Hey yerhonor vtheprez, first time I've seen a post of yours over here and not on dfxonly
(and a heck of a first post it was..)

I am root root rootin' for your beautiful little coin to wind up being worth about 55x the $55 you paid for it.

Good eye, good Missus / 1st Lady, good group decision!! I hope it pays off big-time.

Rgds, Plunk
 

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vthepresident

vthepresident

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Dec 30, 2007
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Re: Please Please Please be real!

Thanks folks,

It crossed my mind that the coin was possibly stolen, since whoever sold it obviously had no idea what it was. I hope that this is not the case. Like I said before, it looked like an entire small collection had been turned in at once at the pawn shop. This could be a family member who inherited the lot and had no interest in the coins or it could be a box stolen from someone's house. Who knows? I will say that the quality of the coins that were all together were not consistent with a collection that held 170 year old low mintage gold in near uncirculated condition. So it's possible that the gold coin came to the shop separate from the collection. There were two double eagles there (one in a jewelery bezel) that showed up about the same time. It would be interesting to know what kind of character brought all these things in.

But it must remain speculation. Surely if this coin had been submitted for authentication before, it would still be in a slab. I am not sure what a grading company's policiy might be for receiving a coin reported stolen. I can't imagine that there is enough evidence you could get from the features on a coin to definitively say it is the same as one reported stolen and actually confiscate it.

That being said, if I was convinced that it was stolen, and that the coin I bought could be undoubtedly matched to the owner, then I would want to return it. This coin is now the crown jewel of my collection, and I am sure that would be true of many people, so I can imagine losing it to a robbery would be devastating. It would take some pretty convincing evidence and documentation to back up such a claim though.

For now, I will wait my three weeks, and find out what condition the experts say this thing is.

V
PS. additionally, I am worried about going shopping again at this pawn shop. I know the guy pretty well, and I have bought several coins there, but I know if I go back in there, he is going to ask me what I found out about this coin. I know it sounds silly to feel like you ripped off a pawn broker, but what can I say? I know he didn't sell it to me for any less than he paid for it, but I still got the better part of the deal. Oh well, I have always thought that honesty is the best policy, and I want to go in there and get more good deals in the future, so I will probably tell him about what the thing actually is. Maybe he will consult me on collection purchases in the future.
 

davest

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Nov 5, 2007
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Re: Please Please Please be real!

that is a great pawn shop find. As far as telling the owner of the shop what you know, just say, "I don't know what it's worth, but it's costing me to find out", and let it go at that. How many times has a pawn shop owner given only what he wants to, to someone that needed a bit more? It's called "business".

Wow, now that I said that, YOU HAVE A GREAT COIN THERE.
 

ModernMiner

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Jan 9, 2007
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Re: Please Please Please be real!

HOLY SMOKES!!! :o :o :o!!! :o :o :o
What an amazing find and story. I hope like heck it IS the real deal. Living here in NC that history of the Bechtler Mint always always interesting to me. I used to try panning for gold in that county, but only found a few flakes. :'(
I wish you all the best on this find. Can't wait to see the outcome. You better buy the first lady a very nice dinner. :wink:
Congrats,
MM
 

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vthepresident

vthepresident

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Dec 30, 2007
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Re: Please Please Please be real!

Thanks MM,

The First Lady is truly a keeper. She has put up with me driving all over the southeast to metal detect, and even sat out in the sweltering heat with me many times on her days off. I am glad she trusted my instincts this time, and I am hope like heck that I don't let her down on it. Either way, she is a great dame to come home to.
vulcananniversary020-Copy-Copy.jpg

V
 

CRUSADER

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Re: Please Please Please be real!

vthepresident said:
Thanks folks,

It crossed my mind that the coin was possibly stolen, since whoever sold it obviously had no idea what it was. I hope that this is not the case. Like I said before, it looked like an entire small collection had been turned in at once at the pawn shop. This could be a family member who inherited the lot and had no interest in the coins or it could be a box stolen from someone's house. Who knows? I will say that the quality of the coins that were all together were not consistent with a collection that held 170 year old low mintage gold in near uncirculated condition. So it's possible that the gold coin came to the shop separate from the collection. There were two double eagles there (one in a jewelery bezel) that showed up about the same time. It would be interesting to know what kind of character brought all these things in.

But it must remain speculation. Surely if this coin had been submitted for authentication before, it would still be in a slab. I am not sure what a grading company's policiy might be for receiving a coin reported stolen. I can't imagine that there is enough evidence you could get from the features on a coin to definitively say it is the same as one reported stolen and actually confiscate it.

That being said, if I was convinced that it was stolen, and that the coin I bought could be undoubtedly matched to the owner, then I would want to return it. This coin is now the crown jewel of my collection, and I am sure that would be true of many people, so I can imagine losing it to a robbery would be devastating. It would take some pretty convincing evidence and documentation to back up such a claim though.

For now, I will wait my three weeks, and find out what condition the experts say this thing is.

V
PS. additionally, I am worried about going shopping again at this pawn shop. I know the guy pretty well, and I have bought several coins there, but I know if I go back in there, he is going to ask me what I found out about this coin. I know it sounds silly to feel like you ripped off a pawn broker, but what can I say? I know he didn't sell it to me for any less than he paid for it, but I still got the better part of the deal. Oh well, I have always thought that honesty is the best policy, and I want to go in there and get more good deals in the future, so I will probably tell him about what the thing actually is. Maybe he will consult me on collection purchases in the future.

I would tell him the truth.

Everyone who sells things has to sell them at a price that they are HAPPY with (ie normally a profit), if they are not happy then its their right NOT TO SELL.

If he had sold you a fake (which he may have thought he had at that price), then he had the last laugh, now you have it. He will live & learn, just like you!
 

Goldiver

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Re: Please Please Please be real!

That little coin is just too cool! 8) I wish you luck on your authentication, man it looks like the real deal to me, and I would have picked it up too, it is a small investment for what is likely the real thing.

Steve
 

cammobunker

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Re: Please Please Please be real!

vthepresident said:
I know it sounds silly to feel like you ripped off a pawn broker, but what can I say? I know he didn't sell it to me for any less than he paid for it, but I still got the better part of the deal. Oh well, I have always thought that honesty is the best policy, and I want to go in there and get more good deals in the future, so I will probably tell him about what the thing actually is. Maybe he will consult me on collection purchases in the future.


Look, I'll give you my take on pawnshops in general. It's a good rule of thumb that 90% of all items sold in pawnshops are sold at a 300% markup or better. I've seen pawnshops offer people $20 "scrap gold" value for rings with nice stones included, then turn them around for hundreds more than that.
Whoever sold the pawnshop that coin probably got less than $25 for it. The pawnbroker then turned it for a quick 100% profit. If he didn't bother to educate himself about something he was selling, why should you? A red book is what, $20? He had no idea what it was and didn't bother to find out.
Educating this guy as to just how much he gave away in value will result in his coins being scrutinized very closely, and taking a right smart jump in price. If you want to continue to make good buys out of this shop, I suggest you not mention this coin again.
Note I'm not saying lie about it, but just don't discuss it. Act embarrassed if he brings it up, and change the subject. Continue buying from him; you'll make him happier than by telling him just how much he screwed himself on this deal.

Just my two Zincolns on this one; you do what you want.
 

Treasure_Hunter

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Re: Please Please Please be real!

Waiting to hear what they say about authentication, and I am willing to bet your going to have a big smile when it returns.......... :thumbsup:
 

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vthepresident

vthepresident

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Re: Please Please Please be real!

Well, I don't have anything to hide from the guy, and he even said when I bought it that if it turned out to be worth tons of money, then I would be making a good deal. I actually went in there again yesterday, and it was a different guy. They had the same coins from last week, though they had been picked over pretty hard. This guy was a little more pawn brokerish, and when asked for prices, started much higher than the usual guy, but he still didn't know anything about coins. They had a DESTROYED flying eagle cent that was only even recognizable to a trained eye. When I asked what he wanted for it, the guy just gave it to me. It wasn't worth squat, but it fills a hole in my Coins of the 1800s type set until I get a nicer one. So, the pawn shop bandit strikes again!

V
 

Treasure_Hunter

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Re: Please Please Please be real!

lol-cartoon-ag1.gif



Pockets for a few seconds there I was trying to squash a bug on my monitor......... :icon_scratch:
 

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vthepresident

vthepresident

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Re: IT'S REAL!!! IT'S REAL!!! 130 YEAR OLD GOLD COIN PAWN SHOP STEAL!!!

The verdict is in......ANACS certified C. Bechtler gold dollar, Rutherford NC 30 grain

I called today, and they are shipping it back to me this afternoon, so I will have the slabbed coin on tuesday.
The grade was EF45 with the detail "bent," which I thought was a little harsh, but who cares? It is still a $1500 plus coin with the damage!

As soon as I have it back, I will post pictures of it in the slab.

I have been back to the pawn shop several times, and they haven't asked me about the gold coin yet, so I guess it's water under the bridge. I hope they don't read this forum! I actually bought a Mont Blanc ink pen from them today for about $100 less than they are going for on ebay, so I am just going to keep shopping.

I know this wasn't a metal detector find, but I still consider it treasure found, so thanks for letting me post it on the forum!

Stay tuned for more pictures!

V
 

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