ITS REAL!!! ITS REAL!!! 170 YEAR OLD North Carolina Gold Coin!! *NEW PICTURES*

vthepresident

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Dec 30, 2007
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IT'S REAL!!! IT'S REAL!!! 170 YEAR OLD North Carolina Gold Coin!! *NEW PICTURES*

You guys are probably all going to make fun of me. How many times does some clown post a picture of a coin he or she bought at a yard sale or a pawn shop that turns out to be a replica or a car wash token? At least fifty times a day.
goldcoinreverse.jpg

goldcoinfront.jpg


Well, I am hoping that I am not that clown. However, I am fully prepared to don my polka dotted suit and put on my makeup. I can promise you I will be the sad kind of clown. Definitely not the happy kind. Here is my story,

After enjoying a most excellent day off from work with the first lady, we had one more stop to look at quilting supplies for her before we went home to eat some of her delicious spaghetti casserole. Keep in mind, she was so kind as to let me purchase a coin earlier in the day to add to my "19th Century Coins" type set (1877 seated half dollar). So, I was definitely not going to be in the coin market again for a while. Anyway, I said, "Can we swing by the pawn shop?" There is a nice pawn shop right down the road from our place, and the guy doesn't pay much attention to the dates on the coins he gets. He normally buys and sells based on silver and gold weight alone. She most graciously said "yes" and in we went. The place was crawling with pawners, so we had to wait for a while to get to the counter that has coins in it. I noticed two things...

#1. There were a lot of coins there that weren't there about a week ago. Normally the guys has a little display with 10 or 15 coins in it. Today there were 4 double eagles, a large stack of silver dollars, and many various older silver coins. It looked like a good portion of a collection had been turned in.

#2. There was another coin person there ahead of me shopping the case. The guy was discussing one coin in particular that I gathered might be a gold one. The shopper was struggling with the same decision I would soon be struggling with. At last, I heard him say, " I will go home and research this, and then I'll probably come back for it."
My interest was now perked.

After a thug bought a gun and a Mexican guy hocked a guitar, it was our turn. I know the owner pretty well, and he greeted me as he got the coin display out for me. The first lady and I perused the contents and I immediately found the gold coin. At first I thought it was a foreign coin, but when I flipped it, I saw "Carolina Gold" on the back. I thought right away it was probably a replica. However, not to be daunted, I asked the owner if he had tested the gold content and what the price was. He said he had not tested it but we could right there on the spot. He wanted $55, which was the price of the weight in gold. I didn't want him to scratch it to test it, so I trusted his eye for real gold and moved on. I wasn't about to ask for $55 more dollars from the first lady for more coins, so I paid the guy $1.60 for a busted up holed capped bust dime and a busted up holed seated dime and we left.

But it nagged at me. In fact, it chewed at me and pictures in my head appeared of redbook pages chronicling territorial issue gold coins and some other dude purchasing it before me. In the end, the First Lady convinced ME that we should go get it just in case it was real. So we did. I now own it. It looks just like the pictures in the Red Book. It is a Rutherford Bechtler gold dollar. Or a replica. Please, Treasurenet experts! Please tell me it's real!

If it's not, so be it, but I'm hoping the gold content will make it worth something even if it is more modern.

Any input will be appreciated,
V
 

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MUD(S.W.A.T)

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Re: Please Please Please be real!

Hey,

Details look real, I would do the scratch test on the edge. If its real I would send it in to be graded. Both ways your out $15.00 + On the grading if its not real or your out the cost of a scratch. If the scratch test is real then you know your not going to lose the $15.00 on sending it in and them telling you its a fake.

Nice job,

Keep @ it and HH!!
 

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vthepresident

vthepresident

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Dec 30, 2007
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Re: Please Please Please be real!

I couldn't get a quality scan of the edge, but I examined it closely with my loop and the reeds go all the way around. There are no file marks, and definitely no cast lines. I also paid very close attention to the tiny dings and imperfections on the surface, and there is definitely no discoloration on the metal beneath. I am almost positive it is real gold, even if it is a restrike or a replica.

I am now beginning to have hope that this little devil is real. I agree with the post that suggested that the dent is from an aborted attempt to hole the coin. It is right in the center of the top of the good side of the coin. I hope this doesn't drastically affect the value if it turns out to be genuine. I have been researching prices and procedures for grading, and will probably send it off on monday.

Thanks so much for the encouragement and the advice. I will be seeing my doctor soon for some blood pressure medicine before all this is over, I just know it.

V
 

Historyhound

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Re: Please Please Please be real!

vthepresident said:
I couldn't get a quality scan of the edge, but I examined it closely with my loop and the reeds go all the way around. There are no file marks, and definitely no cast lines. I also paid very close attention to the tiny dings and imperfections on the surface, and there is definitely no discoloration on the metal beneath. I am almost positive it is real gold, even if it is a restrike or a replica.

I am now beginning to have hope that this little devil is real. I agree with the post that suggested that the dent is from an aborted attempt to hole the coin. It is right in the center of the top of the good side of the coin. I hope this doesn't drastically affect the value if it turns out to be genuine. I have been researching prices and procedures for grading, and will probably send it off on monday.

Thanks so much for the encouragement and the advice. I will be seeing my doctor soon for some blood pressure medicine before all this is over, I just know it.

V

The small dent will normally detract a bit from it's value. But, with a coin that rare, it won't be much if any at all.
 

AMorgan

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Feb 22, 2008
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Re: Please Please Please be real!

MUD(S.W.A.T) said:
Hey,

Details look real, I would do the scratch test on the edge. If its real I would send it in to be graded. Both ways your out $15.00 + On the grading if its not real or your out the cost of a scratch. If the scratch test is real then you know your not going to lose the $15.00 on sending it in and them telling you its a fake.

Nice job,

Keep @ it and HH!!

Whatever you do, DO NOT BE TEMPTED TO SCRATCH THE COIN!!!!


If its fake, you lost nothing by doing this. If its real, the edge IS considered the third side of the coin , and will be considered in with the total value of the coin.

Alan
 

Mainedigger

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Re: Please Please Please be real!

Am hoping its real... spending $55 on it is well worth the risk and could be a very wise investment...keep us posted on what you find out and I hope it proves to be authentic!! :thumbsup:
 

CRUSADER

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Re: Please Please Please be real!

Good luck from the UK. Please update this thread when you have the result?
 

ivan salis

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Re: Please Please Please be real!

humm you did wieght check it -- 30 grains right? I would do that just for starters ----( note I corrected my self 30 grams ?--what was I thinking -- grains of course -- only a $1 coin --- 30 grams is over 1 oz of gold way more that $1 worth even back then -- duh --) Ivan
 

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vthepresident

vthepresident

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Re: Please Please Please be real!

Well, the weight is supposed to be 30 grains, not grams. One grain is about 60 milligrams. The exact measurement for 30 grains is 1.94 grams. I also read that the actual diameter is supposed to be 16.3 millimeters.

I drove around to three jewelery stores yesterday trying to find one with a scale and a caliper, but they were all the big commercial jobs and they didn't have any. I found one that buys gold that certainly will have the equipment, but they were closed last night. The First Lady and I are taking the coin over there this morning though, so my fingers are crossed.

I fluctuate drastically from being convinced it is real to being convinced it is made of brass or some other garbage. It looks totally different depending on what light you see it in. I am mentally prepared ( i think) to find out it's a brass replica, but we will soon see.

1.94 and 16.3, those are my magic numbers......

V
 

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vthepresident

vthepresident

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Re: Please Please Please be real!

Okay,

The jeweler weighed the coin, and it is 30 grains (1.92 grams) on the money. This is good news. He was a bit rough handling it, which made me very nervous, but the weight is accurate. What he measured in diameter was 15.2-15.5 mm across. This conflicts with the one site that I found that mentioned diameter (16.3mm). I have been trying to find more info on what the actual diameter is supposed to be. Can anyone help me with this?

He did say it looked to him like high karat gold, so that was encouraging.

Please reply with the correct diameter for this coin!

V
 

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vthepresident

vthepresident

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Re: Please Please Please be real!

Do any of the Birmingham area Tnetters know which of the local coin dealers is set up to send coins to NGC? I really want them to be the ones who grade this thing, but I don't want to pay the $99 membership fee to be able to submit to them directly. I will be EXTREMELY nervous letting it out of my sight as it is.

V
 

Cubfan64

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Re: Please Please Please be real!

vthepresident said:
Do any of the Birmingham area Tnetters know which of the local coin dealers is set up to send coins to NGC? I really want them to be the ones who grade this thing, but I don't want to pay the $99 membership fee to be able to submit to them directly. I will be EXTREMELY nervous letting it out of my sight as it is.

V

For what it's worth, the density of brass alloys is ~ 8.2-8.8 g/cm3. 18K-24K gold is more on the lines of 15-19.3 g/cm3. I'm sure there are alloys that can be made to replicate the density of gold, but it's at least pretty encouraging that you're right on the money so far on weight :) Good luck
 

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vthepresident

vthepresident

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Re: Please Please Please be real!

Well, I feel much better about authenticity. Two local dealers, including one of the most experienced in our area have looked at my coin and they agree, it's the real deal. There was not a doubt in their minds. The slight toning, which I thought made it look like brass, was the tell tale sign that it was old gold. After comparing it to early 1800s gold coins in the shop, I can tell now that mine is made of the same stuff.

One of the dealers (not the more reputable of the two) tried to make a big deal about the little ding in the coin, saying that it pretty much wrecked the value. I disagreed, citing the Heritage auctions listed in the above replies. I thought the defects in the 2nd and 4th coins from the Heritage Auction that Captain_SE posted were at least as distracting if not more than the ones on mine, so I think the $150 dollar value the guy placed on mine might have been an attempt to get me to sell it to him.

Because of the ding, I am sending it tomorrow to ANACS, who will grade and encapsule the coin. NCG or PCGS might have sent it back without a slab or a grade and still charge their fee. ANACS will give it a grade and verify authenticity and then they will make a detail description to tell about the damage like "VF with Scratch." It will come back with a slab and an authenticity guarantee either way.

I'll have it back in hand in about a month, at which time, "It's Real! It's Real!" will become the new title for this thread.

Until then, it looks more and more like a pretty good $55 dollar pawn shop buy.

Thanks for all the interest and the support,

V
 

civilman1

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Re: Please Please Please be real!

Best of Luck to Ya......Awesome coin!!!!
 

FloridaBill

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Re: Please Please Please be real!

Okay everything sounds like it's going your way. I will be watching for that final post saying it was indeed real. Good luck my friend.......
 

finderzzs

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Re: Please Please Please be real!

ivan salis said:
humm you did wieght check it -- 30 grains right? I would do that just for starters ----( note I corrected my self 30 grams ?--what was I thinking -- grains of course -- only a $1 coin --- 30 grams is over 1 oz of gold way more that $1 worth even back then -- duh --) Ivan
Just so you know, there are more than 30 grams in an ounce.
1 troy ounce = 31.1034807 grams to be precise..
 

rhedden

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Re: Please Please Please be real!

I was also going to suggest ANACS, due to the small ding. I just sent a group of early half dimes there which had similar dings. And yes, the dealer was trying to steal it for $150, no doubt there.
 

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