Padres Lost Silver Bars

[lgadbois]

From the Coconino Sun, Nov. 4, 1932:
"Ben Doney, 89-year-old Flagstaff pioneer and Civil War veteran who was aboard one of the lesser Union vessels in the historic duel between the Monitor and Merrimac at Hampton Roads, Va., died at his ranch near here Sunday night from injuries sustained when he fell from the porch of his house. The body was found sprawled over a discarded wagon wheel in the yard by neighbors Monday morning, Doney having struck his head on the hub. Dr. E. S. Miller, Coconino county health officer, said Doney suffered a fatal head wound when he fell from the porch, approximately four feet. In attempting to regain the house, Doney stumbled over the wagon wheel where he died. The death of Doney took one of the two remaining members of Flagstaff's G.A.R. [Grand Army of the Republic] post, which was organized in 1884 with a membership of 75 veterans. A daughter of Mr. Doney had left here Saturday for California in a light automobile. She has not been notified of the death. A son who left Flagstaff about 30 years ago, according to Smith, is believed to be in Utah, but he has not been heard from for two or three years. Doney was well known to most Flagstaff residents. In addition to ranching, he spent much time prospecting, and had located several mining properties, none of which he profited from. He was active until he died, in town nearly every day, his slight, erect figure and vigorous walk denying his extreme age."
Special thanks to NAU's Cline Library, Special Collections.

— Arizona Daily Sun

 

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[UncleMatt]

I made contact today with a guy who owns property on the north edge of the malpais near Grants, NM. I shared with him the story I heard recently from my Pueblo of Acoma friends, and he said he had heard about that in the local paper back in the 1970's. I will be following up on that and sharing what I find here in this thread. Interesting twist, though, he said he heard the guys who were caught unearthing a cache of treasure back then had found it beneath a rock canyon wall with a cross engraved in the stone above where they were digging. Not a snake, a cross...

 

[UncleMatt]

He also claims to have known Gus Raney, and he said his grandparents used to run an old museum on a bluff near where the ancient trail emerges from the malpais on the eastern side. That bluff is literally a few hundred yards from my target search area. That museum was purchased by the Pueblo of Acoma and closed down a long time ago, but many of the artifacts can be found in the new Sky Museum closer to the highway.

Here is a fascinating clue I learned today. My new friend tells me Gus Raney gave his grandfather a piece of gold he claimed he had cut from a large gold bell with a hacksaw! I am encouraging him to see if it can be found among his family heirlooms. Talk about a mouth watering tidbit!

 

[Springfield]

He also claims to have known Gus Raney, and he said his grandparents used to run an old museum on a bluff near where the ancient trail emerges from the malpais on the eastern side. That bluff is literally a few hundred yards from my target search area. That museum was purchased by the Pueblo of Acoma and closed down a long time ago, but many of the artifacts can be found in the new Sky Museum closer to the highway.

Here is a fascinating clue I learned today. My new friend tells me Gus Raney gave his grandfather a piece of gold he claimed he had cut from a large gold bell with a hacksaw! I am encouraging him to see if it can be found among his family heirlooms. Talk about a mouth watering tidbit!

Igadbois - great thread, thanks and continued good luck turning up more info. I apologize for the off-topic response below to UncleMatt.

Matt, I used to kick around that Raney country quite a bit in the '70's, way before it became government controlled. The Narrows of course is where 117 squeezes between the edge of the lava flow on the west and the vertical sandstones cliffs on the east - barely enough room for the road - north of the old Raney ranch and south of the big arch, if I remember correctly. I robbed the photo below from the internet for the benefit of those who haven't been there.

I remember the big 'treasure' stink that you mentioned. As I recall (and I certainly could be misinformed), the guys got busted because they found a Native shrine in the lava west of this section and removed some old pottery from it. If you've ever been out in that lava you know that the Natives left a lot of offerings there over the centuries.

The pack train ambush also allegedly happened here at the pinch point.

 

[UncleMatt]

OOps, I apologize for my off topic post as well. i will start a new thread about my adventures in the Narrows.

 

[UncleMatt]

Thanks for the post, but the story I am talking about is not pottery related. And though the initial attack probably occurred right at the narrowest pinch, it is thought a rear group was tasked with burying the booty while the others held off the attackers. Otherwise, how would you be able to bury a large cache while under attack? And subsequently the cache area would not be right at the main battle area, but back aways from that where men could dig without being killed right away.

Igadbois - great thread, thanks and continued good luck turning up more info. I apologize for the off-topic response below to UncleMatt.

Matt, I used to kick around that Raney country quite a bit in the '70's, way before it became government controlled. The Narrows of course is where 117 squeezes between the edge of the lava flow on the west and the vertical sandstones cliffs on the east - barely enough room for the road - north of the old Raney ranch and south of the big arch, if I remember correctly. I robbed the photo below from the internet for the benefit of those who haven't been there.

I remember the big 'treasure' stink that you mentioned. As I recall (and I certainly could be misinformed), the guys got busted because they found a Native shrine in the lava west of this section and removed some old pottery from it. If you've ever been out in that lava you know that the Natives left a lot of offerings there over the centuries.

The pack train ambush also allegedly happened here at the pinch point.

View attachment 1011316

 

[Springfield]

Thanks for the post, but the story I am talking about is not pottery related. And though the initial attack probably occurred right at the narrowest pinch, it is thought a rear group was tasked with burying the booty while the others held off the attackers. Otherwise, how would you be able to bury a large cache while under attack? And subsequently the cache area would not be right at the main battle area, but back aways from that where men could dig without being killed right away.

Ha ha. That raises the age-old question: if you were in the middle of a fire fight, why would you worry about burying the loot? If you were going to be killed, who cares about the treasure? If you lived through the fight, fine - keep heading south. There are dozens of stories such as this. One wonders if someone survived, why would they tell the story?

 

[Crow]

Springfeild good point! Many of these stories are nothing but legends others might have grain of true in them.

It comes down to cause and effect. That its why I believe it is crucial to research the events and history behind such stories.

I for one have enjoyed immensely the contributions made to this topic. It has made this site worth visiting. If anything the real treasure was hearing about these early pioneers.

Crow

 

[Jnobes28]

I was just searching the web for old west stories about my grandfather, Melvin McCormick and came across this forum. I will show my mom tonight, we both know a lot about the lost silver and the persistence my grandfather had in searching for it. He was an amazing guy!!!

 

[Crow]

I was just searching the web for old west stories about my grandfather, Melvin McCormick and came across this forum. I will show my mom tonight, we both know a lot about the lost silver and the persistence my grandfather had in searching for it. He was an amazing guy!!!

Jnobes28 welcome to Tnet.

Its been one been of Unclematts and Igadbois pet research projects. I Imagine they would very interested as well as I in what your family contribute in regards to the story. I imagine your grandfather had amazing story to tell.

Crow

 

[UncleMatt]

Yes, I would love to hear your story Jnobes28. Please proceed.

 

[Jnobes28]

You guys have done some great research. There was a part posted by Igadbois "buried in fine black sand" that was only on the original map. My mother said that is true, that Melvin told her that. As for the map, the plateau on the left being sunset crater could be very true. I have a different theory. While Melvin was searching for the silver he found and claimed the McCormick mine which is a mile or two southwest of O'Leary. We still own this mine and it is our main source of income. My mother said George may very well have buried the map as he was apparently quite a stubborn character. Melvin believed the silver to be out there and wanted to continue searching, but it would take 7-8 Melvins to complete all his projects! He also spent time way down in southwest Az looking for ONE special plateau. This is also something Im very interested in. I have basically grown up around the O'Leary area, marking claim corners, riding dirtbikes, camping, etc... I wish I had asked Melvin more questions when I was 3-4! My parents will be moving to a final location next summer where we can finally look through Melvins treasures. Im 100% positive the search will continue!!! Anyone who would like to come along is more than welcome, and if anyone has any questions feel free to ask. There are still a few knowledgeable McCormicks around (myself not included)!

 

[audigger53]

I don't want to throw a wet blanket on the amount of silver, but.... 16 mules How many bars?, @ 60-70 LBs each. The Spanish had special pack frames for the mules for carrying gold and silver bars. Normally one bar per mule as the weight was very concentrated. Even if 2 bars per mule (32 bars), would be a lot for the mules to make it very far. Makes a good story though.

 

[Crow]

I don't want to throw a wet blanket on the amount of silver, but.... 16 mules How many bars?, @ 60-70 LBs each. The Spanish had special pack frames for the mules for carrying gold and silver bars. Normally one bar per mule as the weight was very concentrated. Even if 2 bars per mule (32 bars), would be a lot for the mules to make it very far. Makes a good story though.

Hello audigger no wet blanket indeed. In fact pertinent question. However 60-70 lbs bar figure is that from the story some where posted? Please remind me as it very hot a humid where I am at the moment. Whit mans brain boil at temperature I am in at present. Almost time for siesta.

*Update I see way back in the eariler posts the weight was given. Good point. The sums do not ad up. In general I have read Mule can carry up 20% of thier body weight a rider 30%. However perhaps Don Jose Mule lover afectinado can clarify a bit more.


Crow

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Will post on them Don Crow, but in the morning, tis about 01:30 am and am very tired, closing shop til then

 

[Crow]

Ah burning the midnight hour my friend. Done Jose welcome to the 24 hour world. Has'nt the world gotten so much smaller. Ya know once upon a time the 'other side of world" was some far away place? These days I have business interests all around the globe. There is someone out there making me money. Sweet gold filled dreams my friend.


Until then.

Crow

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Making you mooey ?? hmmm


A mexican mule is considerably smaller than an America mule. As such, a rough rule of thumb is #200 in the 'sierras', more on the flatlands. Treasure trains used 2 45 kilo bars per load.



I have posted this before, A friend, Bob McNaught was a self trained egr. '''''''''''''''''''''''he secured a contract to survey the possibilities of a road on the north side of the Malpais.. One day when he had finished his work he idly swung his theodolite on the opposite side and saw a hastily constructed breast works. He duly noted this in his record book.

A few years later he heard the story of f the robbery of the returning Californians, and rechecked his note book, but could find it..

But since he knew approx. where he had found it, he concentrated on that area. He had no success.

He spent several years looking for it off and on. He has since passed on to those Treasuer Hunters in the skyl

He always said that it was on the rim on top.

Questions ?

 

[UncleMatt]

Do you know if that was near this GPS? 34.954006, -107.967087

That is Road 53 north of the Malpais. I am hoping you can narrow it down a little further, but I know that was long ago.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

A canyon divided the two rims, it was on the extreme northern edge of the southern rim. He looked across the canyon

 

[lgadbois]

I don't want to throw a wet blanket on the amount of silver, but.... 16 mules How many bars?, @ 60-70 LBs each. The Spanish had special pack frames for the mules for carrying gold and silver bars. Normally one bar per mule as the weight was very concentrated. Even if 2 bars per mule (32 bars), would be a lot for the mules to make it very far. Makes a good story though.

I don't understand how you came to this conclusion. A mule can easily carry a saddle, pack, and two people if it is necessary. Six bars would be 360 pounds.