Jesse James Treasures: Do They Likely Still Exist?

[Rebel - KGC]

HH! Good Luck! Alberta Clipper up there... Brrrrrrrrrr!

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

DR.ÖTEK Metal Detector, Waterproof Gold Detector, Pinpoint & Terrain Modes, Professional Metal Detector - Grab it through Amazon!

[rockboombang]

Anyone actively on the Jesse James hunt?

Hello out there! Is anyone out there currently on a trek across America to find any of the Jesse James gang treasures? I'm sure you'd have to be independently wealthy to do something like that no doubt. But, I'm curious... is anyone? I have read a lot about all the bits and pieces people have complied over the years, so impressive, but is anyone actually on the trail looking? Connecting all the dots and actively looking for answers? Or has it all been complied and just lead to a dead end?

I'm also wondering if anyone has tried to connect the dots between all the different gangs / outlaws and the various treasures hidden. Most likely impossible I'm sure. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

I'm fascinated and very curious. Like every else here I suppose.

Cheers!

-Rock

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Jesse James...? Which one...? He had at least TWO "Body Doubles"... they were his COUSINS! LOL!

 

[uglymailman]

Wow. Just caught up on the last few pages of this thread.
The CSA provided very little to the Trans-Mississippi efforts and next to nothing to Prices Army of which Jo Shelby was a part of. They provisioned themselves with captured Federal equipment and clothing. They were more able to roam in Missouri dressed as Federals and it was better than having nothing. Same for powder,bullets and bread. Shelby's men often stole into Saint Louis,MO. to smuggle out caps. When Shelby left Louisiana for Texas he used the CSA stores in Shreveport and left with 2000 Enfield rifles and 4 rifled cannon along with several wagons of supply's. His own men each had a Sharps rifle and 4 Navy Colts. He also had several members of the Missouri Gvt. in exile. John Newman Edwards said Shelby was offered the CSA Treasury at San Antonio,TX. but turned it down. Other accounts said he did take it. Edwards also said Shelby sold his cannon and rifles to the "Rebels" against Maximilian for 19K.
It is most probable that Shelby knew Frank James and Cole Younger. Not so much for Jesse during the unpleasantness between the states. When Shelby headed to TX., JJ was down being lung shot. Cole Younger was at the end of the war either in Mexico awaiting a shipment of Enfield rifles from England or in California. (Cole's brother in law Jurrett(?) was either in CA. with him or died with his wife in a house fire shortly after the war. It should be noted he's buried in Canada.) But there is no doubt that the MO. Partisan Rangers scouted for Price/Shelby as most of those men were from the area. Shelby's raid covering 1500 miles through MO. and ARK. in 40 days, one 106 mile stretch in 18 hours, couldn't have happened without them. Some of the Partisan Rangers joined Prices army and no longer rode with Quantrell or Anderson. Shelby's Colony only lasted a couple of years but when it disbanded, he gave each of his men 50 dollars to return home on.

 

[Kace]

Hi Crosse. Have just read this entire thread and would like to make some comments. I'll start with the story my Grandad told to me, given to him by his Grandad.
"It was Threshing Time but wet so the old men were at the Shawnee Mound,MO. store sitting around the stove and tellin lies. They knew something was wrong when 2 men rode up, one on a black and one on a Grey. When they dismounted they just threw the reins over the hitching post, they didn't tie off. The second man through the door pulled 2 pistols and told everyone to just stay seated. The first man went behind the counter to the cash box (a cigar box) and after looking inside said "Hell, nothin here but chicken feed" and put it back under the counter. He then went to the twist tobacco that came in 3 foot lengths and cut a couple of chunks off. He then went to the door and said "All we wanted was some tobacco. You count to 100 before you get up". They then rode north. They sat there a long time before anyone even said anything and that was "I'll bet that was the James Boys.""
My point is if you got robbed in those days it made the story better if it was "The James Boys". I'm not sure that I'd rather have what was stolen in their names than what they ever took themselves.
My next door neighbor rode the train between Kearney and Carney, MO. when she was a little girl and Jesse's Mother was on it. When the Conductor came through collecting tickets she said "I don't have a ticket. Don't you know who I am? I'm Jesse James Mother, I don't buy tickets". My neighbor didn't know if she rode for free or if the Conductor paid the fare. Zelda sold rocks off Jesse's grave, then went to the creek to get more and put on the grave for later sale. Frank and Cole Younger traveled in a Wild West Show near the end of their lives. If they had great wealth buried why did they work or Zelda sell rocks?
I did Land Survey work on a Corp. of Engineer Lake in mid 70's. We had to relocate the Section Corners on 156 Sections. (Land here is layed out in "sections" each 1 mile by 1 mile). The original Survey was done 1835-1845. Most corners were marked with a stone. A "Blaze" or "Branded" (Witness Tree) tree was also at these corners. A tree near the section corner had the bark carefully removed in a large (perhaps a foot by foot ) area facing the corner and a measurement taken to the tree. The "blazed" area was also "branded" (like livestock). This was done to help locate the corner at a later date. Of nearly 1000 corners either recovered (we found about 2% of the org. stones) or replaced, we only found one Witness Tree and 2 depressions in the ground at the proper distance where a tree might have grown/died/rotted. Most of the Witness Trees were Oak. The one we found was Oak. The blaze had grown over and left a knot or scar and when the tree was cut down to examine the blaze area (the tree would have been covered by the lake) the new bark was removed to show the blaze underneath. I don't know growth rate of tree's but take a grain of salt with any "signs" on trees being 130 yr's old.

The stone markings with the J J or the back to back facing away markings might date to that era. They might also be John Johnson. Or kids playing Jesse James and doing the marks like "Kilroy was here" or "Who is John Gault" of different era's.


I think the "Traveling Banks" are probably real and may be more of them.

Cole Younger didn't ride in the Partisan Rangers with Jesse. He did with Frank but was gone doing other things by the time Jesse showed up.

It cost a lot to be in their business. They ALWAYS had the BEST horses. They had lots of help, lots of family,lots of friends. Some kin were fair to do.

Have enjoyed this thread and wish luck to any who are looking. Hope ya find a big one, one coin at a time.

Hi UglyMM...I Swear I'm Not Trying To Be A Know it All. I love reading all the posts and I can tell you do too and I think everyone tries to be as accurate as possible. I don't try and discredit anyone, especially family lore.


Once Again I Didnt look at the Date of this Thread....My Apologies If It's Old.

That being said, There is not a town in Missouri Named Carney. Kearney is more than occasionally pronounced "Carney" by local natives... and in the Mid to Southern Part of the State. It's like MISSOURI...MIZZOUREE...But Again, Mostly in the Mid to Southern Part of the State MISSOURI is pronounced MIZZOURAHH. Like MIZZOU TIGERS or OLE' MIZZOU in Columbia, Missouri.

I Do Not Doubt that the story you told about Zerelda Cole James Sims Samuels could be true. I would be inclined to say that..Yes, Its Likely She Could Of Said That. They Lived in Kearney and the Railroad was completed in 1867 and Kearney was incorporated in 1869 I believe. Zerelda James Samuels died in 1911.

As far as what was passed down to you, it would of just been where the train had picked up passengers previously before stopping in Kearney, MO. Maybe another state has a town named Carney that she was traveling home from. IDK??

You mentioned Shawnee Mound, MO... Are you talking about the area close to Clinton, MO in Henry County or the one in Bates County close to the Rich Hill-Butler area? Just a guess but I'm thinking Henry County. There is also a Shawnee Bend in Benton County close to Warsaw, MO. Working with COE I'm guessing again you would have been working on Truman Lake which would be the area of Henry-Benton-St Clair Counties. I have a really old book my Grandmother gave me Documenting the History and People of Those Counties During the Civil War. It's a Great Read, But I Don't Think it was ever reprinted. I'll post a copy when I get a minute of the front cover and the authors name in case you would run across it at a sale or something.

Keep Up The Posts...All Of The Posters Have Very Interesting Pieces To Contribute!!

Like Rebel,SSue and Others Have Said Both JWJ and AFJ used Different Alias Names. In MO there are claims he used the sir names of

JAMES...(with a completely different first and middle name or initial). Sometimes James being a First or Middle Name.
HOWARD.... (Thomas Howard)
DALTON...(J.Frank)
Those are the Most Popular in MO.

Texas the claims are for the sir name
COURTNEY

Lynchburg, Virginia 1882 Sir Name For AFJ:
WARREN (James Ed)


Very Interesting Thread!!
Kace

 

[Rebel - KGC]

In Lynchburg, Va., 1882... Frank James WAS here with his family; HE WAS known as James Ed Warren. Even the L'burg Sheriff knew who he was...

 

[Kace]

In Lynchburg, Va., 1882... Frank James was here with his family; HE was known as James Ed Warren. Even the L'burg Sheriff knew who he was...

Thanks Reb- I attached that to my post just for someone reading could get a One Time reference of all known alias names. I need to look at SSue's for the first name.

I meant to add on my post that J. Frank Dalton is Quite a Story. If you look up the History of Meramac Caverns on Route 66 in Missouri it will tell in much more detail than I can about how JFD came to be.
Thanks For The Info Reb!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

James Frank Dalton was JJ's cousin, AND! ONE of his "doubles"... THAT is why, he KNEW so much!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Looking for the name of his other cousin... ALSO a "double"; HEH! THAT is why, JJ was EVERYWHERE!

 

[Kace]

James Frank Dalton was JJ's cousin, AND! ONE of his "doubles"... THAT is why, he KNEW so much!

Hey Reb, Did you read about J.Frank Dalton and Meramac Caverns? I'm just asking because that seems to be when he went PUBLIC about being JWJ. The founder of MC was really good at promoting the cavern and did many things to get visitors...Heck we went!! lol! Anyway his son-in-law Rudy ??, came on as GM and really pushed to get JFD to live on site and gave him a home, he talked to visitors... Read the story for more accurate and detailed info than I could give. It's pretty interesting how it all unfolded. His profile pic really looks like a relative. I've got some pics to post on here regarding JWJ, AFJ and Cole Younger. I'll try to do that soon.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

That would be GREAT!

 

[uglymailman]

Hi Kace. I don't know about the Carney,MO. Never looked at map until you brought it up. I took the tale at face value and Mrs. Ham has been gone for 25 yrs. but I've always remembered it as Carney. She traveled between the towns as a small girl on the train and it always seemed to me to be a short distance,10-12 miles. Might have been a local name like North,MO. that was on the RR between Clinton and Deepwater,MO. You'll have a hard time finding that too.
Yes to Shawnee Mound in Henry Co. and yes to the COE work on Truman Lake.
IDK how we can have so many things named the same. There is a Mount Zion in Henry CO. and another in south central MO. and a Ladue in Henry CO. and another near St. Louis.

 

[Kace]

Hi Kace. I don't know about the Carney,MO. Never looked at map until you brought it up. I took the tale at face value and Mrs. Ham has been gone for 25 yrs. but I've always remembered it as Carney. She traveled between the towns as a small girl on the train and it always seemed to me to be a short distance,10-12 miles. Might have been a local name like North,MO. that was on the RR between Clinton and Deepwater,MO. You'll have a hard time finding that too.
Yes to Shawnee Mound in Henry Co. and yes to the COE work on Truman Lake.
IDK how we can have so many things named the same. There is a Mount Zion in Henry CO. and another in south central MO. and a Ladue in Henry CO. and another near St. Louis.

Thanks for the reply UM,
It's a Small World For Sure!!

I'll start from the top of your post. I know of North COUNTY By St Louis, MO but I've Never heard of just plain North, MO. Northtown, Yes, close to KC proper.

Like I mentioned, probably the majority of MO residents call Kearney...Carney. No Doubt You Heard It Called That. If Not Carney it's Kurnee/Kernee. It's All The Same....everyone knows what everyone else is saying! HA!

Believe it or Not, I have close Family in Clinton and 6 miles South off 13hwy in Deepwater!! SMALL WORLD, Huh?!! Back in the day when it was a bit bigger My G-Aunt Was the City Collector and My G-Uncle Was The Sheriff!

My G-Grandparents lived there. I'll try and find a pic of their place when I post these others. I still have a lot of cousins that live in Clinton and Deepwater. I'm in that area quite a bit and on Truman Lake. Turning on Z East on up to Mt Zion and Brownington. Only Two Churches Remain. A Tornado went through a lot of that area, including Deepwater. There is a large Amish population around there now. Clinton and Deepwater are both in Henry County and are only 6 miles apart. As you know with COE and Truman, so many of the small towns were flooded. Did you move any Cemeteries? One of My Families Cemetery's Was Moved due to the lake going in. I will say COE Did A Great Job Moving The Graves. It Could be that someone from the family was there everyday and the political aspect of it helped us. A lot of folks ended up at Shawnee Bend in unknown graves. I didn't like that at all. We got a Wrought Iron, Gated and Fully Fenced Area that's Very Nice on Flat Ground With an Excellent Grade to it. Do you live in MO? What Part If So?

I'm going to post some pics to this Thread later. I gotta go to sleep! lol!

Kace

 

[uglymailman]

It is a small world Kace. I was on a survey crew in Sioux City,IA, drinking in the motel bar. There was a crew of Alu. siding installers from Fla. in the bar too. When the found out we were from Clinton,MO. one said "My Grandmother lives there on 3rd st.." My folks were in Las Vegas,taking a cab to the airport when the cabbie asked where they were from. Mom said "A little town in MO. you never heard from." Cabbie said "Try me." Mom told him & he said "Do you know Dr. Cowsert?" They didn't but after they got back Mom went to his office and told the tale & told the Dr. his school mate said Hi.
Looking forward to your posts on Cole Younger. The guy that got him out of prison was from Clinton. Stories of his house having a tunnel for escape. A kid on one of my youth baseball teams lived there and his family did remodeling. There was a tunnel from the house to a cellar. A clay drain pipe about 4" dia.. The downstairs windows DID have brick inside the walls under them. Some protection against shootouts?

 

[Kace]

Here are a few pics. I'll post more

Cole Younger Business Card From Lee's Summit, MO. I Do want to say on LSMO...HISTORY Writes Two Different Versions Of That Name. First and Most Widely Believed Is That General Robert E. Lee Used This Area Due To It Having A Very High Summit.....Lee's Summit. Could Explain Why Cole Younger Chose LSMO to Live Out His Final Years. IDK? The Second Story of The Name Comes From People Not Wanting Association With The Confederacy (change history). They Say It was Named after Dr. Pleasant Lea (notice the spelling of Lee/Lea). Before incorporation it was the town of Strother. If Anyone wants to it's on Wiki. For further Info. I Grew Up In LSMO...At That Time I Always Was Told The Name Came From
ROBERT E. LEE. AGAIN, I Wasn't There at That Time It Was Incorporated. LS was Always a Southern Town. Cole Younger Lived, Died and is Buried Here...His Home was taken down by the city for new construction and is supposed to be reassembled at another location in LSMO.



See if that works and I'll add more...

 

[Kace]

Okay, It Did.
On The Pictures I Post Please Keep An Eye On The Spelling Of JESSE.

I'll also point out what I THINK are DISCREPANCIES on the Pics and Documents I POST! PLEASE FEEL FREE TO COMMENT EITHER WAY. This is a discussion and maybe a way to nail some things down. All Information Is Welcome. Please State If It's Family Stories, Locale Info, Documents That Are Authenticated etc. Anyway that you have obtained them please post. We have Tneter's that are active on this thread from TEXAS-VIRGINIA-WEST VIRGINIA-NEBRASKA and I'm Holding Down MISSOURI and KANSAS! Anyone else joining this thread with pertinent info, Please Post Your Location. Thanks.

Here Goes A Few. This Picture Is NOT IN DISPUTE BY ANYONE. NEXT PHOTO IS OF;
Jesse Woodson James and Alexander Franklin James. Jesse is on the Left. Please Note His Facial Structure and Hairline.

 

[Kace]

This Is Another Pic NOT IN DISPUTE.

NOTE; HAIRLINE, Facial Structure And The Signature For Future Reference.

 

[Kace]

Here It Starts Getting Dicey...Check Hairline, Facial Structure. Known Photo of LIVE JESSE WOODSON JAMES
SIDE BY SIDE WITH ALLEGED DEATH PHOTO OF JWJ.

NOTE: LEFT HAND IS COVERED

 

[Kace]

Here is a Better Pic of JWJ Alleged Death Photo; NOTE FACIAL, EYE SPACING, EYE BROWS AND HAIRLINE

 

[Kace]

Jesse W. James' Wife and Children. Taken Shortly After April, 1882. First Pic Is Just Zee.

WIFE- ZERELDA (ZEE) MIMMS JAMES
SON-JESSE EDWARD JAMES
DAUGHTER-MARY ? JAMES

View attachment 1493606

View attachment 1493607

You Can Tell By Her Clothing The Second Pic Was Probably Not Taken At The Same Time As The One With Their Children. That Photo To Me Looks Like She Aged A Lot!


Did Those Two Come Out As An Attachment On Your End? I Didn't Want That If They Did. Let Me Know And I'll Change It. I want them to just be viewed.