The Lost Carson Mine

[UncleMatt]

So if this was in operation up there, surely someone must have found something worth hauling all that up there! They wouldn't have done it just to prospect in my opinion. As well, if they had not found anything, I wonder if my first assumption above was wrong. Surely they would have removed the equipment when they left if they had not scored. I guess there are quite a few unknowns here. I would love to get some serial numbers off this machine and see if it could be traced to a company or person. If they hit something big, perhaps they would not have worried about removing the equipment, but just fleeing with their booty. I wonder how long ago this was in operation up there, and if anyone had the proper mining claims in place to use it on this site. I recall seeing a mining claim in the area called Rusty Bucket, but can't seem to find it now.

 

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[ikesdad]

I have many shifts on the brake handles of a slusher.
Slushers, not draglines, have been used extensively underground thru out the San Juans, especially in shrinkage stope mines, and I believe still are. The bucket appears to be home made and I'm guessing some kind of gas engine powered the slusher itself. A compressor at that elevation would have to put out some mojo CFM to operate it if air powered and I doubt some poorboy operation as that would have had such a large compressor back when it was used.
They probably got the thing for peanuts or stole it or someone else did. They hauled it up there because they had visions of finding something. Since the exercise probably proved useless and nothing was found, why haul those boat anchors back down ? Especially if from unquestioned sources..
There is no honor amongst high graders.

 

[ikesdad]

Yes, it's a slusher bucket, cable, and engine. It's really out of place up there, and looks like it was used to remove the overburden at the Baker Boy's lunch spot in Temple's story. I'm not a miner, so seeing it as Barton described made sense to me. I would have loved seeing how it ever got up there. I gotta picture somewhere from a few years ago. Maybe I'll have to learn how to post one.

sdcfia, I put faith in Temple Cornelius. His stories seem born from truth, or the truth he believed at the time. As I read, and re-read the story, I would l certainly send an eye there as I looked for clues on the ground. What a tough place to get to though, especially with backpacking and prospecting gear.

Don't put too much faith in Cornelius. I strongly suspect that he inserted some red herrings into his yarns, the Carson story being one.

 

[ikesdad]

Ha ha. I ran one of those for a short time in the Idarado Mine on Red Mountain Pass back in '74, filling in for an absentee for a few shifts. Boy, I hated that thing. Wasn't as bad as a jackleg though. What a helluva way to get a paycheck.

Did ya ever work at Standard ?

 

[sdcfia]

Did ya ever work at Standard ?

Nope - just the Idarado, ten hundred level, 1974. My shifter was Louie Girado, an Italian guy, I believe, who lived in Silverton. He'd been hit by lightning twice in Silverton. Most of the experienced miners were from Montrose. It was the first time I'd ever been underground and I was totally green. I started as a trammer, but the very first shift I worked, our crew spent half the day high-grading a picture rock stringer that the previous shift had ravaged. I thought that was pretty cool, but the fun and games were few and far between after that. The mine was hiring everyone they could find on two legs. They were even hiring hitchhikers over the pass who stopped in for a drink of water. In many respects, I loved my six months working there, but when it was time for me to move on, I didn't look back. It's an entirely different world underground - one that I found that I liked - but very dangerous.

 

[sdcfia]

Don't put too much faith in Cornelius. I strongly suspect that he inserted some red herrings into his yarns, the Carson story being one.

Despite the claims that later prospectors found similar ore in Twilight Creek, I wonder if Carson's discovery might actually be north of Twilight Peak instead. It seems like better sheep country, and more of it.

 

[ikesdad]

Despite the claims that later prospectors found similar ore in Twilight Creek, I wonder if Carson's discovery might actually be north of Twilight Peak instead. It seems like better sheep country, and more of it.

If "Carson" was even the actual individual and not just a name of someone long gone that Cornelius attached to the story.
If he was born in 1830 and died in 1904, then he would have been 74. This man was in his 70s and packing back into that rough country ? .......I don't think so.

 

[UncleMatt]

Ikesdad, you make some good points about the equipment left behind up on Coal Creek. But I have to ask, how would you even get such heavy equipment back up in there? No roads at all, and very steep grades! And this wasn't an underground working environment, so how would that rig have even been a useful tool up there?

I too caution people about taking everything Temple wrote as gospel. He was a newspaper man and knew how to spin a yarn to capture people's interest. But I think we need to get more info from Silverton on Carson before we relegate him to fiction.

 

[ikesdad]

Look at that slusher. Does it have a gas engine ? If so, then what I would do is mount it on a skid and use the slusher to pull itself up or thru or around whatever to get it to where it will be used. Plenty of trees to tie the cable (wire rope) to.
No different than dragging a jeep around by the winch mounted on the front bumper.

A regular practice when moving a slusher from one place to another underground.

Occasionally we had to get one up a raise. We would wire a brake handle down, and the thing having an air motor, we would simply control it hoisting itself up the raise by the valve on the other end of the air hose.

Those guys that used the one in the picture were definitely underground hands.

 

[pealer]

Couple more pics to add




Maybe they'll help with knowing more details. Thanks everyone for the insights on how it got there and operated.

 

[ikesdad]

That is not a slusher but a single drum hoist being used as a slusher and with what appears to be a cathead on the side, which could be used to drag the bucket out.
I did a search and the engine is a Wisconsin 4 cyl.
What do you think ?

My apologies for getting off the original subject of the thread.

 

[UncleMatt]

Pealer and Ikesdad, thank you so much for educating me! I obviously have a great deal to learn about mining methods and equipment. It never occurred to me they would use the mechanism itself to pull it up to its current location.

 

[UncleMatt]

So where exactly was this bucket used? Did you happen to figure that part out while you were up there Pealer? I did not see any large piles of dirt or ore, so what exactly were they doing with this up there? A part of the north bank of the south branch does look like it was scrapped a couple of decades ago, but where is the piles of stuff they srcaped off of it?

Did you happen to notice any mining claim stakes or markers in the ground Pealer? I posted photos of what I saw earlier in the thread.

The more we all share information, the more I become convinced that the Baker's Brother Seam was removed long ago, and that only the tale remains to entertain...

 

[lastleg]

Whether true or not Temple sure could spin a yarn. Not many could get me swallowing the
bait but he sure could.

 

[UncleMatt]

Guys, I am at work at the moment. I just talked with the curator at the Animas Museum, and she told me her grandfather was Jack Gardner. She said he was good friends with Temple Cornelius, and used to run sheep up north between Durango and Silverton. Can anyone recall if that name was associated with any tales of Temple's?

I learned today that sheep were not freighted on the Silverton Train, except when going from Durango back east. Stock trails were used to get from Durango to the high country, and they took them up as high as they could so they would be in cooler temperatures in the summer to stimulate more wool growth from the sheep. I'm going to get my hands on some old stock trail maps from the FS and see if any head up towards Twilight Creek.

Added later: after getting home and reviewing the story it was Jack McCormick in Temple's story about Carson, not Jack Gardner.

 

[pealer]

[/So where exactly was this bucket used? Did you happen to figure that part out while you were up there Pealer? I did not see any large piles of dirt or ore, so what exactly were they doing with this up there? A part of the north bank of the south branch does look like it was scrapped a couple of decades ago, but where is the piles of stuff they srcaped off of it?

Did you happen to notice any mining claim stakes or markers in the ground Pealer? I posted photos of what I saw earlier in the thread.
QUOTE]

Go a very short distance past those scrapes and trip over the slusher/drag/hoist!
I myself am convinced that the seam was found and played out in short order. Maybe it was indeed rich at the surface but had nothing behind it. The immediate area is not known for minerals, and there are but few mines/prospects on that mountain, but I can tell you I have seen mineral ore in that area elsewhere. Someone sure spent time up there thinking it was worth it, including more recent claim markers. The one I saw by the scrapes read Amazing Grace, engraved in aluminum sheet or tin and attached to a wooden post. Just above one of those scrapes I found a small piece of telluride ore. It took me a long time to find and distinguish it from the rest of the country rock I was sitting on. My friend, a miner, furnaced it for me and was a bit wide eyed like myself at achieving a bead. But hey, it's just another one of Temple's yarns! Folks who've never followed Temple's stories to their place of origin have no idea how obscure these places are and how accurate some his details can be. Of course this only applies to the stories he personally had a part in. Carson up in Twilight is different and is a repeated story with whatever elements of truth or fiction.

OK, that's all I know about the Baker Brother's seam.

 

[UncleMatt]

Pealer, I saw that same post with the plate on it as well, and posted a photo of it earlier in the thread. I agree, the Baker's Brother Seam is played out and isn't worth anyone's time and effort to look for any more.

I imagine a lot of people tried to follow up on Temple's tales after they were published in the early 60's! And probably before as well, since most of those tales were known in the area.

 

[ikesdad]

Whether true or not Temple sure could spin a yarn. Not many could get me swallowing the
bait but he sure could.

That was his occupation and personal gold mine.

 

[UncleMatt]

From what the family has told me, Temple didn't make very much money from his books. Limited audience.

 

[UncleMatt]

The Baker Brothers Seam is a dead issue as far as I'm concerned, but there may still be something to find up at the head waters of Twilight Creek. Won't be able to figure that out until someone gets up there and does an extensive search.

I am still of the opinion the Carson vein was not all the way at the top, or gold float would not have been found where Twilight meets Lime. As well in Temple's account there is mention of dynamite and a drill being found in a side canyon on a rock shelf. There is only one side canyon up there where such float would not be trapped in a basin, which starts at 37.636452, -107.744267. Elements of Temple's story do not agree with this conclusion, but how would float be able to wash down the watershed if the vein was above basin pools?