The Lost Carson Mine

[lastleg]

The assumption of four bags of nearly pure gold is illogical, especially from the San Juans.

 

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[UncleMatt]

Burro load range: High end: 3 x 125 pound sacks for 375 pounds per burro
Low end: 2 x 85 pound sacks for 170 pounds per burro

Source: This Is Your Life episode with Olga Little, the only female mule train operator in southern Colorado.

However, this source says she hauled coal on burrows with 3 seventy pound sacks for a total of 210 pounds per pack animal:

http://www.durangoherald.com/article/20120212/COLUMNISTS02/702129989

It probably varied but a typical burro load was probably between 170 to 210 pounds, and was probably determined by distance traveled and the type of terrain that was being crossed.

 

[UncleMatt]

From the numbers presented in the story of around 200 pounds of ore being sold for $2,800, after factoring in processing costs and dealer profit, the ore probably contained around a half an ounce per pound of ore. Roughly of course. Especially since we have no documentation or invoices to know for sure that contain exact weights or charges.

 

[sdcfia]

From the numbers presented in the story of around 200 pounds of ore being sold for $2,800, after factoring in processing costs and dealer profit, the ore probably contained around a half an ounce per pound of ore. Roughly of course. Especially since we have no documentation or invoices to know for sure that contain exact weights or charges.

Just out of curiosity, let's say the lode exists and you're fortunate enough to find it. What then? Stake a claim and sell it? It'd likely be to an individual or very small group. You'd have to reveal its location - that could be risky. Or are you going to try to recover ore yourself from an outcropping at 12,000+' elevation? You'd need at least two to four very motivated folks (ala Treasure of Sierra Madre) willing to quit their jobs for at least a summer in order to tackle tough logistical problems, and then execute who-knows-what efforts (probably hand steel and near-surface work only) to recover the ore. If all this paid off with another 200 pounds @ half ounce = $100,000 - minus expenses, it's a nice payday for a few guys. Enough?

 

[lastleg]

Go solo Uncle Matt; remember what happened to Bogie.

 

[sdcfia]

I've been looking at the topos and GE and have changed my mind - the Lime Creek access is probably your best bet for getting up to the head of Twilight Creek. It's the shortest and the least steep way. The photo below shows the 1-mile route you recently took from the dirt road to the mouth of Twilight Peak (green), and the orange is the remaining 2 miles to the search area. Coming in from Twilight Peak (north) seems too steep and dangerous dropping into upper Twilight, especially if heavily laden, IMO. I imagine there were decent trails in the canyons back in the day - you can see stretches of some of them on GE - but the vegetation has overgrown them. That makes it a tough go, but nobody said it would be easy.

 

[UncleMatt]

I can't really comment here about what I would do if I found Carson's strike. That might come back to haunt me in all kinds of ways.

I have a feeling more than a few people have been up to Twilight Creek head waters to search, and its possible its already been found. As has already been discussed, if a sheep herder found it, over the years any thin covering of dirt he placed over it would likely be washed away. I know people were living at the mouth of Twilight Creek on Lime for extended periods of time. In the old cabin I found boots, coffee cups, heavy metal framed cots, dishes, pots & pans, a cast iron stove in pieces, and even a lot of clothing. One shirt looked very new and was part of a Sherriff's uniform from Salt County Utah! Explain that one! So people were in a position to take day trips up Twilight, so it probably occurred. I also know 14er climbers have recently been up there as well. Who knows what has been found already, or maybe nothing. The oldest document in the cabin was a Readers Digest from 1952, and the oldest graffiti was from 1967. The newest graffiti was from 2011. So a lot of people found what I did. Food for thought.

 

[ikesdad]

Go solo Uncle Matt; remember what happened to Bogie.

We don't need no steenking baajes

 

[sdcfia]

Go solo Uncle Matt; remember what happened to Bogie.

Yeah, leg, that's always been my MO too. My advice to folks is usually, "don't go into remote country alone". That said, I seldom follow my own advice. Ha ha.

 

[UncleMatt]

I have close friends who I can count on, and its dangerous traveling by yourself on foot in this country with no cell phone signal. I have gone out on my own many time, but I'm becoming more cautious with age.

 

[Barton]

I loved that movie--TREASURE OF THE SIERRA MADRE--B. TRAVERN WROTE AN EXCELLENT BOOK--and it was made into an excellent movie!

As an example of what prospecting is really like--it was great.
As an example of what greed can do to people-- it was outstanding
As an example of what insanity is like and how an insane person can behave--it was amazing.

 

[Barton]

In post 130 second photo--you have a beautiful picture of a waterfall. The first time i saw that waterfall--there was a
beautiful woman there in a long white dress. She looked at me for a minute and then she was gone.

Did you hike up the creek? Or park at the rest stop? Are you going to tell folks about the drag line up there?
I recall a deep shaft there in red dirt--out towards the center of the "V" or the fork where the streams split.
I geo-chemical tested the hole--and it had nothing more than background--crazy to dig a hole there--never understand
some prospectors logic--sometimes it baffals me. So with no mineral indication--no quartz--no gold--no mineralization
why dig?

 

[sdcfia]

In post 130 second photo--you have a beautiful picture of a waterfall. The first time i saw that waterfall--there was a
beautiful woman there in a long white dress. She looked at me for a minute and then she was gone.

Did you hike up the creek? Or park at the rest stop? Are you going to tell folks about the drag line up there?
I recall a deep shaft there in red dirt--out towards the center of the "V" or the fork where the streams split.
I geo-chemical tested the hole--and it had nothing more than background--crazy to dig a hole there--never understand
some prospectors logic--sometimes it baffals me. So with no mineral indication--no quartz--no gold--no mineralization
why dig?

If there is a deep shaft there, chances are the reason it is deep is because the miners continued to remove something of value on the way down.

 

[UncleMatt]

A beautiful woman in a long white dress? Hmmm. Well, marijuana IS legal in CO.

I was hiking up a trail just to the north of the Coal Creek watershed with a 100 pound pack, and 2 women came by on bicycles with catholic girl style miniskirt bike shorts on. They stopped and chatted, but that is as close as I got to any visions of loveliness up there. I swear I meet more hotties up on those trails than I do down in town!

I have never seen a drag line up that watershed, or a deep shaft of any kind. GPS please.

 

[UncleMatt]

Barton, when you say it was at the V where the streams split, do you mean above the highway on Coal Creek, or down below it?

Back in the day guys would dig a lot without any idea if they would hit something or not. Around Ouray that worked pretty good, but I'm sure that a lot of digging went on in other areas where there was never any payoff at all.

 

[Barton]

I am speaking of going up on Coal Bank Pass---on Engineer Mountain--above the paved highway running between Durango and Silverton

if you climb in elevation from the rest stop--or you climb in elevation from the highway walking up the creek--you come to a waterfall--
that is where i saw the lovely woman in the long white dress , then above the waterfall--if memory serves me--it has been many years now--
the creek branched into a left -south-- and a right --North branch --both forks of the creek go west --up on Engineer Mountain--
---of course you can also say both branches of the creek are flowing east--off Engineer Mtn.

if you have specific questions you can e-mail me [email protected]

 

[Barton]

sdcfia,

"If there is a deep shaft there, chances are the reason it is deep is because the miners continued to remove something of value on the way down."

If I geochemical the tailings / dirt from shaft or tunnel and no trace of heavy metals show up--you can take it to the bank they were NOT REMOVING
ANY THING OF VALUE--THE GOLD, SILVER, COPPER AND LEAD COMBINED VALUE WOULD NOT BUY A SINGLE CAN OF BEANS.

When done properly a geochemical test is very sensitive to heavy metals.

When you have a geochemical test plot--a good mineralized area or deposit can often run 5 to 10 times background.

If I were to handle some high grade ore and then run a geochemical test--with out even a sample of material but i
deliberately exposed my hand to the chemicals in the test tube--usually the test will go positive and show the presence
of heavy metals. Geochemical test when properly done are very good indicators of the presence or absence of heavy metals
like gold, silver, lead and copper.

 

[Barton]

sdcfia, and Crow,

If one were to carefully examine your research such as the trails sdcfi has shown or Crows historical research and photo of a quartz contact zone
certainly it shows you both do outstanding research--anyone including me would be proud to have a working relationship with skilled researchers
such as your selves.

 

[UncleMatt]

Here is the GPS where Coal Creek crosses Hwy 550: 37.708639, -107.771534

The waterfall in that photo was taken to the west of that point higher up in the Coal Creek Watershed, which is on the north side of Engineer Mountain. There is a point where the creek splits at GPS 37.709582, -107.781776. The triangular area Temple Cornelius mentions in the tale of the Baker Brothers Seam has one of its corners at that point.

However, I never saw a deep shaft there at all, or a drag line. Can you be more specific about the location of either?

 

[pealer]

Great thread. Thanks to everyone for the insights. I've enjoyed chasing Temple's tales over the years.
The drag line is certainly there, where Barton describes it, along with more recent stashed supplies and evidence of prospecting. It's been a few years since I last visited that site.

I've seen the motorcycle down on Lime Creek and was in awe of how it ever got there. Along with old cabin remains, there's evidence of a long past trail down that same side of the creek, with cryptic markings on trees along the way. Using tree markings from the top of Lime creek road (the hairpin) I found a long ago used trail to worked outcroppings of quartz veins before descending to the creek downstream of the motorcycle. There's also a good modern trail down to the creek that I later found that made traveling much easier.
As far as getting up Twilight, one probable past route started in Purgatory Flats and paralleled Twilight Creek to the south on the high ridgeline before traversing over to Twilight basin. I've never been there, and I'm not sure I've got it in me anymore for such a feat. It's really tough country to travel in. Between plant growth along water courses and blowdown in the forests, it's slower going than most people realize. I'd much rather climb a 14er along an established route and call it an "easy" day in comparison.