1587 Elizabeth I hammered sixpence from southeast VA

[Bill D. (VA)]

A hunting partner of mine had recently gotten a tip from an out-of-town friend about a couple sites including a beach. She invited me to go with her yesterday to check them out today since the tide was running real low. Anyway, neither of those sites worked out and on the way to our Plan B site we saw a field that looked inviting. We eventually found out who the owner was and where he lived so we went and talked to the guy and his son-in-law for quite a while. He told us it would be OK to go ahead and hunt. The field was rather small and right on the main road so we weren't expecting much. But we started digging a few early buttons right away and eventually started seeing a little brick followed by the iron patch. This was within 100 ft of the main road which was a little unusual. I found a couple more buttons then a nice holed 1782 half reale pops out! Then I found one of those 1600s nipple buttons which was a good clue as to the age of the site and also prepared me for the next target I dug - an Elizabeth I hammered silver coin!! Later after a little straightening and cleaning I saw where it was dated 1587 (425 years old!). I had been trying to get my partner to come hunt that area of the field with me and she finally came over. Then, just one row over she pulls out a very nice 1742 large British copper (half penny). I also found a shallow trash pit just behind the house site that I need to expand upon later. Dug some early brick, oyster shells, iron, ash and one decent sized piece of white pottery (the base of a bowl or small dish). It was a total luck-out to end up at this place and then to find an early colonial homesite, but many times that's how the best sites are found. This was the 8th 1500s silver coin I've dug in the area over the last 3 years. Can't wait to get back out in the field again. HH ..... Bill

 

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[Bill D. (VA)]

Bill, what can one say other than just outstanding on getting your 8th 1500s silver piece! I hope to see more over the years from you and awaiting your recovery of a relic or two that will knock our socks off from that early period!

I forgot to say, the nipple/pimple button is on my list, just have not found a site old enough yet, but they are here in our area.

Don

Thanks a lot Don - I appreciate the kind words. By the way, do you have any info about those nipple buttons? I've scoured all my reference books as well as the web and can't find a thing. I think they're generally from the mid-1600s give or take, but a little additional info would be nice. Thanks again ..... Bill

 

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[Don in SJ]

Bill, what can one say other than just outstanding on getting your 8th 1500s silver piece! I hope to see more over the years from you and awaiting your recovery of a relic or two that will knock our socks off from that early period!

I forgot to say, the nipple/pimple button is on my list, just have not found a site old enough yet, but they are here in our area.

Don

Thanks a lot Don - I appreciate the kind words. By the way, do you have any info about those nipple buttons? I've scoured all my reference books as well as the web and can't find a thing. I think they're generally from the mid-1600s give or take, but a little additional info would be nice. Thanks again ..... Bill

Bill, I did a LOT of research on those buttons, and have pretty much info on them, since I am 99% convinced I have a crude nipple button mould and did the research to prove it.
But, to answer the question on dating, here is a quote from Warren Tice concerning the buttons while we were researching my mould.
Do you have a copy of my book "Dating Buttons." I show similar buttons there but was unable to
date them exactly before publication. Afterwards, I discovered that they
have been found at English Civil War sites, ca. 1640s.

I did and do have a copy of that book and I believe I have a post on this forum showing the results of my research, if not I will repost it.

Don

 

[Nooberz]

What a find!!! Great research and a little luck and you find a hammered in the U.S.!!!! Congrats!

 

[Valley Ranger]

Outstanding! Great saves! What type of detector were you using?

I was using an F75, but any detector could have found the hammered coin as it wasn't any deeper than 2-3". As far as the rest of the stuff, you just need to go slow in the iron patch and dig every signal that has any potential including all the low VDIs as many times they could be small buttons or tombacs, and maybe one day a gold coin. So my rule of thumb especially at colonial sites is to dig it all.

Thanks!

 

[Bill D. (VA)]

Bill, what can one say other than just outstanding on getting your 8th 1500s silver piece! I hope to see more over the years from you and awaiting your recovery of a relic or two that will knock our socks off from that early period!

I forgot to say, the nipple/pimple button is on my list, just have not found a site old enough yet, but they are here in our area.

Don

Thanks a lot Don - I appreciate the kind words. By the way, do you have any info about those nipple buttons? I've scoured all my reference books as well as the web and can't find a thing. I think they're generally from the mid-1600s give or take, but a little additional info would be nice. Thanks again ..... Bill

Bill, I did a LOT of research on those buttons, and have pretty much info on them, since I am 99% convinced I have a crude nipple button mould and did the research to prove it.
But, to answer the question on dating, here is a quote from Warren Tice concerning the buttons while we were researching my mould.
Do you have a copy of my book "Dating Buttons." I show similar buttons there but was unable to
date them exactly before publication. Afterwards, I discovered that they
have been found at English Civil War sites, ca. 1640s.

I did and do have a copy of that book and I believe I have a post on this forum showing the results of my research, if not I will repost it.

Don

Don - I would definitely be interested in seeing whatever info you have on those buttons. Thanks for offering to help ..... Bill

 

[Don in SJ]

Pimple/Nipple button info

Bill, here is a link to data that Gordon Bailey has on-line, Gordon is an author of several books I believe and was recommended by Crusader when I was researching my possible dimple/pimple mold..

http://www.treasurehunting.co.uk/uploads/articles/article_20.pdf
(Photo and read info on Page 38)

Now, the mold I found has had lots of comments from blacksmiths to button experts and after Gordon Bailey lookd at the photos and my examples I made from the mold he agree it is most likely a "rural" mould for that type of button and is perhaps from the mid to late 17th century when that style of buttons was popular..
You probably remember seeing this relic posted years ago on another forum


When I was trying to figure out what the possible mould would make I used silly putty to make a cast and then I started thinking of nipple buttons.

Some views of nipple/pimple buttons, these are ones found by my friend Wayne from NJ

I finally decided after talking to Warren Tice to try and produce buttons, so I bought modeling clay that you bake to harden after using and used cut cotter pins to simulate the button shank and made buttons from the mould.




After Gordon Bailey saw the above photos he sent this reply to me which so far has been the final word on it since no new information has come forth since than. Here is the reply Gordon emailed me and I have his permission to use.

Hi Don.
Sorry about the delay but have been busy finishing my next book. The mould is fascinating and to date have not seen an example such as yours. As you said it does date from the mid to the last quarter of the 17th century this can be seen by the style of button and design which was favoured during this period, however the particular design was in the main used on high quality pewter and silver buttons and not normally on the tombac type. I would say due to that silver is a scarce metal then they would have been making high quality pewter buttons, and selling them, possibly as a small business. The best way to describe your mould is delightfully rural for none of the sections are identical. The protruding arm would seem to have been inserted in to a bloke of wood to prevent the user from burning themselves and the way in which you made examples would be correct adding the loops while the metal was still molten, and should the button or buttons be difficult to remove them from the cast then the mould turned upside down and hit with a hammer to remove them, hence the burring on the top of the arm. As i said we do find this particular design button in this country however never the moulds for they were produced by button manufactures, which makes your example fascinating. I am not sure on the way your museums work in the USA but i am sure they would love to see, it hope i have been of some help.
All the very best
Gordon

Now, with all that said, I sure want to find a nipple/pimple button like you have been finding and if a Hammer English silver coin just happened to be in the general area, I sure would not complain!!!!

Don

 

[Bill D. (VA)]

Thanks a bunch Don for posting all that useful info. That's the most I've seen about the pimple button. Not sure why there's not more out there. And, yes, I do remember seeing that cool mold. What a find that was! Maybe we can find some more of those buttons at that site, but we've already hit the iron patch pretty good and the random finds around it aren't that plentiful. But maybe we'll get lucky. Thanks again for your help ..... Bill

 

[West Jersey Detecting]

Well Done Bill , History has 1033 settlers in Va in 1626 Jamestown Colony was 1606 This side of the pond that coin is a BIG deal as many already know . I wish Henry Hudsons crew lost some coins here in Cape May in 1610 Huge Congrats !! dawg

I bet there are a few there. You just haven't found them yet!

Congrats on another great find! I hope we get to see a picture of your friends copper!

 

[Bill D. (VA)]

Well Done Bill , History has 1033 settlers in Va in 1626 Jamestown Colony was 1606 This side of the pond that coin is a BIG deal as many already know . I wish Henry Hudsons crew lost some coins here in Cape May in 1610 Huge Congrats !! dawg

I bet there are a few there. You just haven't found them yet!

Congrats on another great find! I hope we get to see a picture of your friends copper!

Here's pics of my friend's copper before it was cleaned.

 

[CRUSADER]

Bill, what can one say other than just outstanding on getting your 8th 1500s silver piece! I hope to see more over the years from you and awaiting your recovery of a relic or two that will knock our socks off from that early period!

I forgot to say, the nipple/pimple button is on my list, just have not found a site old enough yet, but they are here in our area.

Don

Thanks a lot Don - I appreciate the kind words. By the way, do you have any info about those nipple buttons? I've scoured all my reference books as well as the web and can't find a thing. I think they're generally from the mid-1600s give or take, but a little additional info would be nice. Thanks again ..... Bill

Bill, I did a LOT of research on those buttons, and have pretty much info on them, since I am 99% convinced I have a crude nipple button mould and did the research to prove it.
But, to answer the question on dating, here is a quote from Warren Tice concerning the buttons while we were researching my mould.
Do you have a copy of my book "Dating Buttons." I show similar buttons there but was unable to
date them exactly before publication. Afterwards, I discovered that they
have been found at English Civil War sites, ca. 1640s.

I did and do have a copy of that book and I believe I have a post on this forum showing the results of my research, if not I will repost it.

Don

Don - I would definitely be interested in seeing whatever info you have on those buttons. Thanks for offering to help ..... Bill

These buttons are Civil War period buttons, but they are Civilian types that were used in the War but also span the whole period, before & after. So all you can say is they are 17th C.

 

[VB Sanddigger]

Nice post!

Great info! Thanks!

 

[dwayne sueno]

what a sweet lot of finds.
your silver hammereds are ridiculous for this part of the world.
got my vote.

 

[Bill D. (VA)]

Awesome find! Wish we could get silver that old up here :P
Also, Am I the only one who thinks the 7 looks like a 3?

No you're not. The more I look at it the more I think it just might be 1583. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[CRUSADER]

Awesome find! Wish we could get silver that old up here :P
Also, Am I the only one who thinks the 7 looks like a 3?

No you're not. The more I look at it the more I think it just might be 1583. Thanks for pointing that out.

I should have said earlier, it is 1583

 

[Joe88]

WOW...some incredible finds!!!!
Congrats!!

Joe

 

[Devonrex]

Nice coin Bill! I can't seem to get my coil over the coins like you can.....maybe oneday! Devonrex

 

[Bill D. (VA)]

Nice coin Bill! I can't seem to get my coil over the coins like you can.....maybe oneday! Devonrex

And I can't seem to get mine over a nice CW relic. Guess my sites are too early.

 

[Goldirocks]

Wow they are some pretty spectacular finds!!! Don't you love Plan B's . They always seem to be the ones that find the best stuff Congrats on some really great finds.

 

[johnnyblaze]

Sweet day of coins


Nice Colonial relics there to



Blaze