1783 King George III "GEORGIVS" backwards "S" UPDATE ID 25-83A OMG!

hogge

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1783 King George III "GEORGIVS" backwards "S" UPDATE ID 25-83A OMG!

Went exploring for new spots on Sunday with my brother-in law, DigginitRTB. You would never know this place was there, only 20-30 yds. off the main trail we walk on. We found a stone wall running approx. 100 yds. long along the side of the main trail and thought it was part of a close by foundation. Thought we would check it out anyway and Rich said he thought he found what was a cellar hole. Called me over and sure enough it was. Found a nice button, a trigger guard to an old musket, and this King George III 1783 copper. Couple things are different on this one. The "S" in GEORGIVS is backwards,(almost looks like a "2"), the 3 in the date is slightly seperated from the rest of the date, and the dot after "REX" is below the bust. The shirt or breast of King George is also different from the dies I've looked at. More or less looks like a series of 6 crescent moons. sorry the scans don't look that good but there is alot of detail left on this coin. Also, the back shield is tipped more than the other die varieties I've looked at. :icon_scratch: Can someone help with ID on this one? :icon_study: Thanks HOGGE Saw 2 other posts from Sunday with King George coppers. Musta been the day for these! UPDATE: In recent days this coin has been positively ID'd as a CFT 25-83A one of ONLY 3,(mine being the third), known to exist. I would first like to thank Iron Patch, and Don in SJ, for without their time and help this would NOT have been possible.This site is AWESOME! And would also like to acknowledge the help of PBK and Jeff of PA with the help on my British Belt Tip. Through Don's knowledge and contacts in the Colonial Collectors world, a DEFINITE, POSITIVE, ID on this coin was possible. Byron Weston of PSU, and Gary Trudgen of "The Colonial Coin Collectors Club" have ID'd this coin and want to do a write up for the C4 Newsletter and Colonial Newsletter on this discovery. I WILL be attending the C4 Convention in Boston the week of Nov. 14-17 with the Ryder 7 Vermont, the British Cartridge Box Belt Tip, the 25-83A, and other CFT coppers found this yr. Tony Carlotto will be contacted to take some better pics and do weight and measurements for them for the newsletter. From what these guys are telling me, over the past couple of days with numerous EMails, the example I have is in better condition than the second known example. They want to compare weight, diameter, and die rotation to the other examples. This whole run of LUCK I've had in the last month has been like a dream. There are several people these guys want me to see, and talk to when I attend the C4. I can't wait! THIS COIN IS IN BETTER CONDITION THAN THE SCAN SHOWS! I HATE MY SCANNER! Anyways, Good Luck to all, and many Thanks to ALL who helped me!
 

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Iron Patch

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superficialbob

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Re: 1783 King George III "GEORGIVS" backwards "S" UPDATE ID 25-83A OMG!

SWEEEEET, CONGRATS. :tongue3: :thumbsup: :tongue3: :thumbsup: :tongue3: :thumbsup:
 

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hogge

hogge

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Re: 1783 King George III "GEORGIVS" backwards "S" UPDATE ID 25-83A OMG!

Iron Patch said:
azmetaldetector said:
I'm a little confused by the post......Is it a counterfeit or a genuine coin?

In either case, great find!


It's a counterfeit, just one that's over 200 years old.
.....And ULTRA RARE!
 

GOLDandSilver

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Re: 1783 King George III "GEORGIVS" backwards "S" UPDATE ID 25-83A OMG!

This is apparently an excellent find, CONGRATULATIONS on your banner find!!!

I don't understand a lot of the information, as many likely don't so perhaps it might be helpful for someone in the know to explain a bit more?

I finally got it that the coin is a counterfeit...does that mean that it is a copy of a real coin? If so, how many real ones are known? I never thought in a million years that a fake coin would be valuable....that alone is educational!

As a counterfeit is there any knowledge of who was producing them in that time period? I read something about dies ect...so they must know something. Was counterfeiting more criminally oriented back then, or was it an act of "sticking it to the King"?? (Rebellion of sorts??)

Also read a lot of posts about history...but no information about that subject in particular. I have no idea how a counterfeit coin would be considered historical versus the real deal??? (not being snarky, just genuinely interested in how this all works out!!!) Why is it called RINGO? I have so many questions!! :icon_sunny:
 

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hogge

hogge

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Re: 1783 King George III "GEORGIVS" backwards "S" UPDATE ID 25-83A OMG!

GOLDandSilver said:
This is apparently an excellent find, CONGRATULATIONS on your banner find!!!

I don't understand a lot of the information, as many likely don't so perhaps it might be helpful for someone in the know to explain a bit more?

I finally got it that the coin is a counterfeit...does that mean that it is a copy of a real coin? If so, how many real ones are known? I never thought in a million years that a fake coin would be valuable....that alone is educational!

As a counterfeit is there any knowledge of who was producing them in that time period? I read something about dies ect...so they must know something. Was counterfeiting more criminally oriented back then, or was it an act of "sticking it to the King"?? (Rebellion of sorts??)

Also read a lot of posts about history...but no information about that subject in particular. I have no idea how a counterfeit coin would be considered historical versus the real deal??? (not being snarky, just genuinely interested in how this all works out!!!) Why is it called RINGO? I have so many questions!! :icon_sunny:
Excellent questions. I have, in my mind, surmised that counterfeiting happened for personal gain and to make the money being circulated throughout the colonies, be deemed worthless and unacceptable as payment, for goods and services. You actually hear of this done during times of war, by opposing countries , to try and collapse the monetary system of an oposing country. I think Don in SJ, or Iron Patch may be able to explain why it was done, in colonial times, better than I can. If it weren't for them, and this site, I would have never known what I had found. As for the name of "Ringo", It was given to the "Family" of coins Mike Ringo was doing studies on after his death. I actually met Mike at a C4 convention in Boston 4 years ago. I hope I have answered some of what you asked, and if Don or IP would like add to my inaccuracies I hope they will. By the way......Welcome to T-Net!
 

Master Sarge

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Re: 1783 King George III "GEORGIVS" backwards "S" UPDATE ID 25-83A OMG!

Nice find!!!
 

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hogge

hogge

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Re: 1783 King George III "GEORGIVS" backwards "S" UPDATE ID 25-83A OMG!

The actual dates of the Stacks Americana Sale Auction, and for this coin are, Jan. 13th and 14th, not 15th and 16 th as I previously stated. Hogge :thumbsup:
 

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hogge

hogge

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Re: 1783 King George III "GEORGIVS" backwards "S" UPDATE ID 25-83A OMG!

For those of us that are interested in the sale of this coin. "Stacks Americana Sale" Jan. 12-14 in NYC, Lot number 7481. They really did a nice description of this piece, although the pictures I see on-line are not very appealing. I have not received the catalog yet, but am expecting it this week. We can actually watch the bidding LIVE, on-line, Tues. Jan. 13th, 7:40 pm EST. This is new to the Stacks auctions. Pretty KOOL! Hogge
 

CRUSADER

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Re: 1783 King George III "GEORGIVS" backwards "S" UPDATE ID 25-83A OMG!

hogge said:
For those of us that are interested in the sale of this coin. "Stacks Americana Sale" Jan. 12-14 in NYC, Lot number 7481. They really did a nice description of this piece, although the pictures I see on-line are not very appealing. I have not received the catalog yet, but am expecting it this week. We can actually watch the bidding LIVE, on-line, Tues. Jan. 13th, 7:40 pm EST. This is new to the Stacks auctions. Pretty KOOL! Hogge

http://www.stacks.com/lotdetail.aspx?lrid=AN00127779&fs=true
For those who need the link.
 

Iron Patch

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Re: 1783 King George III "GEORGIVS" backwards "S" UPDATE ID 25-83A OMG!

Kinda weird (and real cool) seeing other 1783 a month or so ago and now I'm looking at your listing. Hope for a bidding war!
 

baspinall

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Re: 1783 King George III "GEORGIVS" backwards "S" UPDATE ID 25-83A OMG!

Did it sell?
 

Iron Patch

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Re: 1783 King George III "GEORGIVS" backwards "S" UPDATE ID 25-83A OMG!

baspinall said:
Did it sell?

Goes up in just over 4 days. :occasion14:
 

N.J.THer

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Re: 1783 King George III "GEORGIVS" backwards "S" UPDATE ID 25-83A OMG!

Hogge,
We're all keeping our fingers crossed for you. I hope it surpasses all your expectations.

With only four days before the auction you must be very excited. If there is a on-line link to the auction please post it as soon as you have it. I really want to follow this one.

Thanks again for sharing.
NJ
 

Iron Patch

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Re: 1783 King George III "GEORGIVS" backwards "S" UPDATE ID 25-83A OMG!

N.J.THer said:
Hogge,
We're all keeping our fingers crossed for you. I hope it surpasses all your expectations.

With only four days before the auction you must be very excited. If there is a on-line link to the auction please post it as soon as you have it. I really want to follow this one.

Thanks again for sharing.
NJ


The opening price is near 3 grand so even if it sucks... it's still good!

http://www.stacks.com/lotdetail.aspx?lrid=AN00127779&fs=true
 

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hogge

hogge

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Re: 1783 King George III "GEORGIVS" backwards "S" UPDATE ID 25-83A OMG!

I'm all pumped up! I get to watch it live- on-line. Did anyone see the catalog pics? They are kinda crappy. But the description is awesome. They basically said alot of the detail is better than the Ringo coin. They also said it has very little wear indicating it went into the ground soon after it was struck. They also graded it as an EF-40 Details, which was alot better than I thought it would be. I hope our trip to Boston, to the Baystate Coin Show and C4 Convention, helped us in the marketing of this coin. I think it did. Will definitely post results of the auction when it is over. They are starting the coin at $2,800 and said it would not be surprising for this coin to see mid to high four figures. I hope they are right! They put it as the final coin, after the Machin Mills CFT series. Thanks Hogge :thumbsup:
 

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hogge

hogge

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Re: 1783 King George III "GEORGIVS" backwards "S" UPDATE ID 25-83A OMG!

T---Minus 27hrs. 40 mins (approx) and counting!!! :thumbsup:
 

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