1789 Half Reale Update: Third Known Specimen?

[West Jersey Detecting]

Last summer I found a 1789 half reale with a scarce Guatemala City mintmark. It turns out it was a "transitional" coin due to the passing of the crown from Carolvs III to Carolvs IV. As luck would have it, my coin is has a counterpunched IV over III. Here is the coin:



I was able to find out little about the coin other than what was posted in the original thread (http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php?topic=336317.0) showing Krause's price guide.



Other than knowing it was somewhat scarce or rare there was very little further info available. From time to time I have searched online, and even went to the coin show in Philly with no further info and apparently little interest from dealers or auction houses in researching it.

Last night I finally came across info online showing mintage quantities, and here is what I discovered.



I am amazed at how little interest there is for a coin of this rarity, mine being the third known specimen to exist? Especially when you look at a 1916D Mercury Dime, which there were more than 200,000 minted!

 

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[jerseyben]

Very cool Neil!

 

[Woodland Detectors]

Very interesting find Neil. Nice find

 

[kevkirki]

nice ....cool history

 

[HISPAN]

The Reale with its stamp mark are a bit more expensive than normal .... do not pay much attention to the catalogs, each coin has a different value for each coin is different.
its coin is increased by at least 15% of its appraised value.
H

 

[jerseyben]

The Reale with its stamp mark are a bit more expensive than normal .... do not pay much attention to the catalogs, each coin has a different value for each coin is different.
its coin is increased by at least 15% of its appraised value.
H

I believe Neil is pointing out that his 1/2 Reale is a scarce die variety (IV over III).

 

[pro778]

Great job on the research Neil! You've really got something special there.

 

[ES66]

Great research... Very cool find... That's a great piece of history...

 

[zaxfire69]

1 of 3 known to exist. Looks like you need to get on the phone with someone. Let some folks know what you have found. Sweet coin man. I am still waiting on my first.

 

[N.J.THer]

Congrats Neil...I hope it is a winning lottery ticket for you.

Good luck on your further research and getting some interest in this coin.

NJ

 

[Don in SJ]

Neil! I did that leg work last year, I contacted a Half Real buyer/seller(currently working on a reference for the Bust varieties) and here was his reply that I posted in your original post:

Hi Don

Thanks for writing with the interesting coin.

It is a Guatemala 1/2 real from 1789 a transitional year. The old kind Charles III died that year and mintage began at the Guatemala mint before word of the death arrived. Instead of preparing new dies, the new king's ordinal, IV, was punched over the old one. The bust is still Charles III though.

The piece is rather scarce, that's why it is not priced in Krause. I have seen about 5 or six examples, the latest was a nice midgrade example that sold for $150 in early July at a Spanish auction. The hole is a problem, greatly reducing the value, but the countermark is interesting. I have not been able to find exactly what the countermark is, and that could be very positive in regards to value. If the countermark proves to be rare, coupled with a low denomination, scarce host coin, it could be worth a little something. But I can't ultimately tell without doing more research on the mark.

I hope that helps; thanks for sharing.
Doug

I also just had contact from a counterstamped coin collector who would be interested in the coin, he considers a coin that is now counterstamped more a token than a coin for collections, but anyway, if you are interested in talking to him, I could give you his addy privately.

There is not a big demand for Spanish silver, especially Half Real coinage, so value will never be anything near other coins with low mintage.

Don

 

[allen]

absolutely awesome !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[DaleGM]

congrats on breaking into the 1700s with such a rare coin Neil, I find that doing the search on the history of a unique find almost as fun as finding it ...........almost. thanks for the update

 

[RELICDUDE07]

Very cool find! I like the stamp on the face!

 

[Nutriasub]

its a beautiful coin

congrats

 

[artyfacts]

Congrats on your rare bird. Let us know when you find out the skinny... Arty

 

[West Jersey Detecting]

Neil! I did that leg work last year, I contacted a Half Real buyer/seller(currently working on a reference for the Bust varieties) and here was his reply that I posted in your original post:

Hi Don

Thanks for writing with the interesting coin.

It is a Guatemala 1/2 real from 1789 a transitional year. The old kind Charles III died that year and mintage began at the Guatemala mint before word of the death arrived. Instead of preparing new dies, the new king's ordinal, IV, was punched over the old one. The bust is still Charles III though.

The piece is rather scarce, that's why it is not priced in Krause. I have seen about 5 or six examples, the latest was a nice midgrade example that sold for $150 in early July at a Spanish auction. The hole is a problem, greatly reducing the value, but the countermark is interesting. I have not been able to find exactly what the countermark is, and that could be very positive in regards to value. If the countermark proves to be rare, coupled with a low denomination, scarce host coin, it could be worth a little something. But I can't ultimately tell without doing more research on the mark.

I hope that helps; thanks for sharing.
Doug

I also just had contact from a counterstamped coin collector who would be interested in the coin, he considers a coin that is now counterstamped more a token than a coin for collections, but anyway, if you are interested in talking to him, I could give you his addy privately.

There is not a big demand for Spanish silver, especially Half Real coinage, so value will never be anything near other coins with low mintage.

Don

Hi Don,

Thanks again for the legwork. I may be interested in speaking with him, if only to find out more about the counterstamp. I doubt it is worth the trouble of selling, although I guess for the right price.....

I will send you an email later tonight when I have a few minutes.

Thanks again for your effort!

 

[CRUSADER]

Neil! I did that leg work last year, I contacted a Half Real buyer/seller(currently working on a reference for the Bust varieties) and here was his reply that I posted in your original post:

Hi Don

Thanks for writing with the interesting coin.

It is a Guatemala 1/2 real from 1789 a transitional year. The old kind Charles III died that year and mintage began at the Guatemala mint before word of the death arrived. Instead of preparing new dies, the new king's ordinal, IV, was punched over the old one. The bust is still Charles III though.

The piece is rather scarce, that's why it is not priced in Krause. I have seen about 5 or six examples, the latest was a nice midgrade example that sold for $150 in early July at a Spanish auction. The hole is a problem, greatly reducing the value, but the countermark is interesting. I have not been able to find exactly what the countermark is, and that could be very positive in regards to value. If the countermark proves to be rare, coupled with a low denomination, scarce host coin, it could be worth a little something. But I can't ultimately tell without doing more research on the mark.

I hope that helps; thanks for sharing.
Doug

I also just had contact from a counterstamped coin collector who would be interested in the coin, he considers a coin that is now counterstamped more a token than a coin for collections, but anyway, if you are interested in talking to him, I could give you his addy privately.

There is not a big demand for Spanish silver, especially Half Real coinage, so value will never be anything near other coins with low mintage.

Don

Exactly what I was going to say. Just because somebody prints at a particular point in time that it's 'X' amount 'Known' doesn't make yours the 3rd. However, if you had a central place to record them & yours was the 3rd recorded example, then no-one can change that. Thats why I like what we do over here with rare coins. Once again, just because I recently recorded a coin as the 3rd known example, doesn't tell you how many haven't been recorded. Over here you can at least times it by 10.
Anyway it is a Very Rare Coin, so big congrats

 

[Silver Searcher]

Great Find Neil...BANNER

SS

 

[West Jersey Detecting]

Great Find Neil...BANNER

SS

This one should have been a banner back in July of 2010 when I dug it, but it does not qualify anymore!