1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait- Restoration COMPLETE! - 6 March

[PBK]

Re: 1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait- Restoration COMPLETE! - 6 March

Hint, one is a heart with and eagle with shield on it, but still researching before I post later.

Sounds like a Civil War period martingale, usually attributed as an officer's martingale. If you've got a copy of Howard R. Crouch's Civil War Artifacts, compare your find to martingale #3 on p. 131.

 

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[COUNTRY GIRL]

Re: 1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait- Restoration COMPLETE! - 6 March

That's what I was thinking he found. Don did you really find another Martingale?

 

[Don in SJ]

Re: 1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait- Restoration COMPLETE! - 6 March

Hint, one is a heart with and eagle with shield on it, but still researching before I post later.

Sounds like a Civil War period martingale, usually attributed as an officer's martingale. If you've got a copy of Howard R. Crouch's Civil War Artifacts, compare your find to martingale #3 on p. 131.

Well, I wish it were my second martingale, but this is smaller, all copper and is a double pinned item. I will post it shortly in What is it. I believe it is much older than Civil War, whatever it is , 1800-1850s I think.

Don

 

[Arkie John]

Daguerreotype Restoration

Hello Don,

I have followed, with much interest, your series of posts concerning the most excellent daguerreotype.

Years ago I was involved in geneology quite a bit. I kept coming across copies of a double daguerreotype of my great-great grandfather and mother...bad copies at that, but at least they were identified and that it was their wedding photo "after the war."

After a couple of years, many visits to family and friends, two visits to the National Archives etc., I received a phone call from a lady I barely remembered interviewing. She said, "If you want to come over here and look through some old photos of mine that I can't identify, you can and you can have any you want, before I throw out the whole mess." I was like a blur and covered the 12 miles in record time.

I sat down at her kitchen table and she brought out a sack full of stuff; tin types, three daguerreotypes and many early 1900's photo post card type stuff. As I carefully examined each item, when I came to the double (hinged) daguerreotype, it was in the closed position. When I opened it, my heart almost stopped. It was no doubt, my great great grandparents. The old lady said, "what's wrong?" I said that is the most precious photo I have ever seen." I told her the story, just knowing I would not be able to keep it. The photo was ALSO her great great grandparents!

But she was true to her word. She gave me all I wanted and to this day it is my prized possession.

By the way, they were married in 1854.

During your restoration did you notice the glass used is much thinner than modern glass? If you found thin glass, I'd sure like to know your source. Although my images are crystal clear, one of the glass panes is cracked and I'd really like to replace it. But the glass shop states they no longer have glass like that in the modern era. I'm still looking.

Thanks for posting. Your treasure is definitely 1850's--probably mid 1850's. Have a ball and treasure it forever. <><

aj

 

[Don in SJ]

Re: Daguerreotype Restoration

During your restoration did you notice the glass used is much thinner than modern glass? If you found thin glass, I'd sure like to know your source. Although my images are crystal clear, one of the glass panes is cracked and I'd really like to replace it. But the glass shop states they no longer have glass like that in the modern era. I'm still looking.

Thanks for posting. Your treasure is definitely 1850's--probably mid 1850's. Have a ball and treasure it forever. <><

aj

AJ, amazing story on your finding the photos of your ggrandparents. I have photos of my all three of my grandfathers (great great, great and grandfather), but in later years so they are not the old type of photos.

My glass was thick, same thickness as modern glass just about, .10 inches or 2.5mm, so I had no problem taking picture frame glass I had and cutting down to size, well, yes, I had problems, I had to do glass cutting 101 about 10 attempts before I finally cut one correctly. Most conservators replace the glass when restoring.

Don

 

[jerrync]

Re: 1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait- Restoration COMPLETE! - 6 March

don that pic looks to me like a few i've seen of william bonny billy the kid was he ever in the area?

 

[Don in SJ]

Re: 1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait- Restoration COMPLETE! - 6 March

Jerry, Billy the Kid was not born until 1859, so not even a possiblility, yet alone him being near this part of South Jersey.

Don

 

[Cannonman17]

Re: 1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait- Restoration COMPLETE! - 6 March

It's like looking at a ghost.

Amazing-

 

[DrJoePrime]

Re: 1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait- Restoration COMPLETE! - 6 March

Congrats on a GREAT Find and ... a GREAT Job of restoration!

It's Intriguing, Amazing and very much an inspiration to keep us all looking. I went out to my landfill site and got a few recent (1950's) "artifacts". Still...it's really fun thinking about WHAT EXACTLY we can find out there.

HH Joe

 

[JimInPhilly]

Re: 1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait- Restoration COMPLETE! - 6 March

Thanks for the post Don, Its been fun following the drama. Hats off to your patience . Well done.
Did you think about getting the frame restored ? There is an electro plating shop here in Philly..

One question..Bearded , or no beard?


Jim

 

[Colonial KirkPA]

Re: 1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait- Restoration COMPLETE! - 6 March

Submit it to the "Best Finds!" You should win.

Kirk

 

[jerrync]

Re: 1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait- Restoration COMPLETE! - 6 March

don- darn i didnt even look at the huge dates in the headline getting old lol

 

[JCinNJ]

Re: 1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait- Restoration COMPLETE! - 6 March

Maybe you want to post the portrait here? http://www.deadfred.com/

It's a long shot but what the heck.

HH

- joe

 

[kieser sousa/rip]

Re: 1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait- UPDATED- 4 March

Don,
All I can say is WOW...

I read your original post and thought it was amazing then just came back to read about your conservation efforts and I'm extremely impressed. The frame looks great and the photo is coming along nicely. Can wait to see how the electrolysis comes out. One thing I did miss is what happened to the glass. Did it just not clean up enough for you or did it break? just curious.

Thank you for the great post and looking forward to your next update.

NJ

Even on Daguerreotypes that have never been buried in the ground for 150 years or so get the glass replaced by conservators as a somewhat common practice from what I have read in my research. The glass gets etched and also old glass evidently contained impurities that modern glass does not have and that also contributed to the degrading of the daguerreotypes.

But my piece of glass was really foggy, and it was embedded in the glass, I tried several procedures to clear it up and it just was not going to happen, so I will save the glass as it is an original and piece of the frame, but for visual sake, the glass had to be replaced.

Attached is a photo of the glass after I tried several cleaning methods and it would not clear up.

Don

Awesome job Don ! One of the best post's I've read Thank's ! When you say the glass gets etched,do you mean by natural means ? To me it looks almost like there was an intentional etching in the glass.It kind of looks like a floral pattern done to surround the photo.

 

[Digginman]

Re: 1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait- Restoration COMPLETE! - 6 March

You did a great job restoring it.

DM

 

[Skrimpy]

Re: 1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait- Restoration COMPLETE! - 6 March

Jerry, Billy the Kid was not born until 1859, so not even a possiblility, yet alone him being near this part of South Jersey.

Don

Hell I thought that guy looked familiar and I think jerry is right in that it looks like him. Does it mean that it's him? No. Was he a famous individual? Yes. There may have been many photos of him floating around. He was kind of a celebrity, so who is to say this isn't some kind of "fan photo"? Or, maybe he had relatives in the east that he sent pictures too. All anyone really knows about him is that he was a horse theif and murderer he was killed in a dark room by Pat Garrett.

If there's one thing that i've learned it's that nothing is certain. I can think of an instance that a picture of Billy the Kid ended up in a picture frame from the 1850s...

The frame was made in the 1850s and a picture of whoever this guy was could have been placed in it, in the 1870s. It's simple. Does that mean it is in fact McCarty? Heck no but it sure looks a hell of a lot like him to me (see link to picture below)! Try forensic facial identification companies like the one below that uses FACES software. I don't know how much they cost but if it turns out you found a previously unknown picture of Billy the Kid they might do the comparison for free...as long as they get a plug on the History Channel when it gets broadcast.

http://www.solarnavigator.net/history/billy_the_kid.htm
http://www.sketchcop.com/index_SketchCopSolutionsServices.htm

 

[Skrimpy]

Re: 1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait- Restoration COMPLETE! - 6 March

That clean-up progression is awesome up in the banner by the way. Absolutely awesome.

 

[Don in SJ]

Re: 1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait- Restoration COMPLETE! - 6 March

I sent the photo collage of the Daguerreotype to one of the Conservator's I conversed with prior to me deciding to do it myself. I was curious to see if they would say anything derogatory or positive. Here is the unedited reply, minus the last names of the individuals and company.

Hi Don,


In Peter's absence please allow me to comment on your daguerreotype. It does appear to be a daguerreotype created on a electroplated copper sheet (American Process). Often a hallmark can be found on plates near one corner, but this might be less likely with the small format of your daguerreotype.


You had a lot of success in dissolving the copper encrustations. My guess is that they formed at small sites on the plate where the silver coating was compromised and the copper sheet underneath is the source of the material. I would also guess that over time the green corrosion is likely to form again at these sites. While using a basic solution with ammonia may help clear the gunk off the plate I would recommend a second rinse in clear distilled water. I think corrosion is often caused by the basic environment in the plate packet and attributable to materials leaching out of the glass. After the rinse in water I usually follow with a quick rinse of acetone or ethanol with the plate held on edge, immediately followed by drying with low heat using a hair dryer.


I have used electrolytic cleaning to reduce tarnish on several occasions. There seems to be a point when the tarnish lifts off the plate into solution, but is sometimes redeposited onto the plate and becoming more entrenched. Sometimes switching the polarity during the cleaning helps push the materials off. This cleaning can be taken too far resulting in less contrast. Also the brass of the mat may now be more predisposed to localized tarnish where cleared of old tarnish and accretions. I guess I would consider applying a coating of a varnish or gum arabic to lessen the exposure to the environment and slow the deterioration process. The plate should be sealed into a new packet consisting of plate, mat and cover glass. A special tape is usually used; Filmoplast P90, though historically the daguerreotype would have likely been sealed with a strip of paper and some sort of glue around its perimeter. Usually the plate packet would be housed in a small case that was mass-produced for the purpose.


Congratulations on a wonderful little find and mystery. Good luck in your further research, and please feel free to contact us with any other questions.


Richard
Assistant Conservator
NOTE: I replied back to him that I did do actually three rinses afterwards with warm distilled water, I also told him I was fairly certain the vast majority of the copper corrosion came from the mat plate which I believe was copper,not brass, and it was gold plated on the viewing side. As far as protecting the mat, I did put a gold plating preserver on the mat plate to prevent any return of the corrosion. I did not use the Filmoplast he talks about, it would have had to be ordered, not available in any store I could find locally but I did find a acid free photographic tape that is basically the same thing, so I did seal the plate, mat and glass as he said to do.

I think overall I did everything right, so maybe that is why no really negative comment. Tomorrow I might send the photos to the Conservator in Boston who quoted me such a high restoration estimate and see what his reply is............

Don

Skrimpy, Dags were done with in 1860, and Ambrotypes and Tintypes took their place, I am staying with the fact this photo is most likely from the 1855-1860 at the latest range. I have tried contacting the relatives on one of the landowners and on three attempts to three separate email addys, they all were returned as undeliverable. I had gotten the email addys from genealogy website forums.

 

[Skrimpy]

Re: 1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait- Restoration COMPLETE! - 6 March

Skrimpy, Dags were done with in 1860, and Ambrotypes and Tintypes took their place, I am staying with the fact this photo is most likely from the 1855-1860 at the latest range. I have tried contacting the relatives on one of the landowners and on three attempts to three separate email addys, they all were returned as undeliverable. I had gotten the email addys from genealogy website forums.

You're most likely correct but as I said what I found in any historical research there is almost nothing that is certain. For example some try to date the site of their abandoned farm house by the style of foundation, style of nails used etc., and it is never certain. I have seen square and even wooden pegs used in newer construction just to give the appearance of an older home. Looks like you might have to do the genealogy yourself but you won't match up a picture unless one of them writes you back. I would try printing out one of those pics and start posting them on the genealogy sites you saw these people posting to. If they are older they might recognize the photo.

 

[Ed-NH]

Re: 1840-1860 era Antique Photo Portrait- Restoration COMPLETE! - 6 March

Fantastic, you have shown the world what detecting, preservation and appreciation of history is all about. Congratulations on your hard work.

Ed-