24V Infinity Jet submersible gold sucker.... or so I hope

[Subdredger]

The video above is a alluvial pacific dredge.
It runs a sluice in there with a float on top to try keep it level.
A sluice in a sub is not what you do,no matter how hard you try.
The flow dynamics have not been thought out/volume not thought out ,so throw the back half away.
The pumps on that dredge are 36v 4700gph.Throw them away as well and put on 12v 4700gph pumps and up the voltage.While your there throw the noz away as well.
The pumps are made like this.
12v 4700 gph
24v 4700gph
36v 4700gph and
48v 4700gph
So as you can see different voltages same flow.
i chose the 12v 4700gph because as you know it has the biggest gauge wires in it.And we all know what happens when you up the voltage,up the voltage in these wires in the 12v,you get less resistance.
So don't worry about blowing the pump up,it's not going to happen.3 years dredging with this stage one dredge,and all pumps are as new.
So when i put say 24v in ,its a whole different pump ,putting out serious amounts of water.
I have tried to explain how i drop the fines,so i will try again.
Water is so little understood in mainstream anything,the education simply just isn't there for you.
What it comes down to is water holds memory,electrical charge memory,ph memory,when frozen ,crystal memory.
When you put water threw different metal pipes etc it changes the electrical charge,ph etc of the water.
When you put water threw different magnet setups it also changes it.
Your electric pump has magnets in it whats it doing the the water state?

What metal is your sluice box made of.
What is the charge of the water going over your box.
What is the water ph.
All these things come into play with fine gold recovery.This is why i use inert materials in my builds.

Akaline compressed positive water carries your gold.
Acid expanded water will not carry your gold,it drops out.

As far as the electrics go just use the pwm.
I couldn't even start to explain to you how i do it.
Timberdoodle,Theres alot more going on with electrics than what you may be aware of.
Your ac/dc is your north south pole electronics ,what about east west ?You end up back where you started,well documented in Ed Ledskalins work and others.
And in the end it all comes down to how you use the magnets.
Try this ,Get a couple of ferrite ring magnets,get a washer either s/s or galv,put the 2 north faces together with the washer same circumference as the magnets in the middle.,The 2 north faces now stick together,with 2 south poles at the end,watch the magnetism pull strengthen 10 fold.
Apply this to your electrics.

 

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[Subdredger]

That magnet setup i just posted can be used to remove black sand from your pay.
The field effect goes to the washer.
the washer picks up the sand,remove magnets sand falls off washer.

 

[Timberdoodle]

I am a firm believer of having a solid foot on the ground when it comes to theories. I quickly looked up Leedskalnin and he did not believe that an electron exists. If you want to accept his theories you first have to accept that his theories are based on this false understanding was applied to his testing experiences.
Why does a subbie loose fine gold? Does it have anything to do with positive water? Not really
In a surface dredge the flow depth is dependent on the width and the flow speed can be adjusted by the angle. For example - If you took the sluice and cut the width in half the flow depth would increase with some increase in speed also which carries some fine gold in the upper flow regimes and out it goes.
Recorded testing has shown fine gold below 14 mesh has a settling rate that approximately doubles with half the mesh size.
14 mesh settling spherical = 2.5 feet per second (FPS)
30 mesh settling spherical = 1.3 fps
And so on. These are spherical settling rates which are much greater than the settling rates of flat gold based on Corey shape factors. I am going to use these rates because they represent the best case scenario.
In a flow of 10 feet per second 14 mesh would travel approximately 12 inches to drop 3". That doubles with 30 mesh. And so on.
In a submersible the balance of sluice width and height is what determines the flow rate. The flow rate must be kept fast enough to keep the large undesired material moving through a sluice. Another caveat is as the size of a submersible dredge increases the flow rate must be increased in the sluice to keep the larger material moving.
The basic designs like you see in the Aluvial pacific dredge have been around for many years. They employ a long flare after the jet to help the gold to settle before reaching the riffle section.
So what is the flow rate? Good suction usually puts the flow rate in the 10 feet per second range prior to the jet. The jet adds volume which means velocity must increase after the jet. Roughly a 60/40 ratio of suction vs jet volume is common. So now the velocity after the jet is over 16 feet per second. This velocity is slowly decreased in the flare until the sluice which is usually about 4X the total area (height vs width) of the dredge nozzle and puts the flow rate at 4 Feet per second. At 4 FPS the flow is just enough to keep the larger material in motion and hopefully settle most of the gold to the bottom of the flow where it can be worked be the riffles. All this is compounded by other material and corresponding turbulence which often puts fine gold back up in the water column and prevents gold from settling and out it goes.

In a submersible reducing the length after the jet without some form of flow modification to force gold out of the upper water column you are relying on settling rate only and it's not in your favor. This is why I questioned the size and location of the fluid bed.

Most of my experience in electronics was in RF communications. Modifying a magnetic field to provide directivity or "Gain" is nothing new. I don't get a "WOW Really i never understood this" feeling from it at all. Pointing to obscure unverified theories to try and make a point that can't be validated or when the idea is proven false and then blaming the folks for not "understanding" seems to be the way this is going.
I live on Earth and it is "ROUND"

 

[Timberdoodle]

Wow- I find this amazing. The entire technological world surrounding you is built off solid electron theory and practice. You are using it and yet deny it's existence. The more I looked at the free energy videos and websites in the past couple of days the more astounded I was that this culture existed. No more explanation needed.

 

[Subdredger]

Wow- I find this amazing. The entire technological world surrounding you is built off solid electron theory and practice. You are using it and yet deny it's existence. The more I looked at the free energy videos and websites in the past couple of days the more astounded I was that this culture existed. No more explanation needed.

No such thing mate,I never said free energy ,you did.Multiplication of energy for sure.
I don't use electrons ,as you can't use something that doesn't exist?
You apparently use it.
See the word after electron you wrote ,THEORY ,its like the big bang THEORY,crap.
You say 30 years in electrics but you still don't understand it,What is electricity.
I will spell it out for you here and now,and this will be the last i speak of it.
WATER is ELECTRICITY,ELECTRICITY is WATER.Water vapors to be more to the point.
You will see this in next years Tesla's conference.
All energy formats must first polarize to do any work,The polarization from a equilibrium out both ways,is your action,expansion,the free ride back to the equilibrium is your reaction implosion.
Without moisture(vapors )in the air we breath no electrical work can be done.No energy format can do work.
Notice in a car they call it a air intake and not a electron intake.

 

[Carl-NC]

Power-google splitting the positive.
I use 6 tiny,12v batteries,hook 3 in series for 36v and the other 3 in parallel for 12volts.
treat the 36volt and 12v as two seperate units.
hook the 36v negative straight to the 12v negative .
hook the 36v positive to all pumps positive,the negative coming off the pump hook to the 12v positive battery bank.

This gives you 24v to play with.
Yes running dredges off 2 positves,Nikola tesla trick.
What happens is power goes from 36v batts to pumps into the 12v batts and CHARGERS THEM.
once the three 12v batts in parallel are charged hook them in series for 36v and the the other batts that where 36v hook the inparallel 12v and run the power the other way,
I use relays now,to do this.
All day dredging with 6 tiny, high c, rating 12v batts.

As Don Lancaster would say, this is an adjunct to porcine whole-body cleanliness.

In other words, total hogwash.

 

[arizau]

This is off subject but is kind of related since it involves small 12v rechargeable batteries and not necessarily the tiny ones but a larger LiIon battery similar to this one. https://www.amazon.com/K2-Energy-K2B12V10EB-Lithium-Phosphate/dp/B0056BWK8I. These batteries are usually recharged by using a small converter plugged in to AC. What would happen if they were hooked up to an auto battery in your vehicle while in the field? Would it and the auto battery try to equalize or would harm be done to it and/or the auto battery? If that idea works how long might it take? You don't know unless you ask or are told by people who are knowledgeable.

 

[standard8]

The 12 volt lifepo4 battery that arizau linked to is a good match up for connecting to your 12 volt car or truck charging system. Which runs at 14 to 14.5.
Lifepo4 cells reach full charge at 3.65 volts. Four cells in series add up to 14.6 fully charged.

The BMS job is to limit max charge voltage per cell and to limit max discharge current as well as have a low voltage cut off.
The a/c charger is a kinder and gentler way to charge but out in the field a direct connect to a vehicle battery would likely work just fine. A big difference in voltage would cause a rush of current to flow. Too much current Connect with vehicle not running then start it up after a while.
Also the lifepo4 chemistry is very unlikey to erupt in flames.

Most battery fires in the news are coming from lithium cobalt based chemistry.
Cobalt chemistry mixes are lighter smaller and hold more energy than most others.

Maybe a fire would not matter on a submersible dredge?

 

[what]

Try find Nikola tesla's patent.
Its what i'm doing to this simple bilge pump but in a different way.
The water going to and from the bilge is like to cones meeting at a point,two tornado's,the point being the impeller,the water once started run's or takes a big part of the load off the pump.

Hey Subbie can you post a link to that patent please? Also maybe a cross-section sketch of your designs? I think that might put some of this disagreement to rest even if your terminology/theoretical basis is catching you some heat...plus I would just love to see it.

 

[Subdredger]

 

[what]

Thank you! I thought it might be that you were talking about... So you are using a Tesla pump which is based in the same principle as Tesla turbines but reversed - instead of using a fluid to output power an external motor is used to move fluids. This might sound like a stupid question but are you using the pumps to move material and water or just water? Do the pumps you have use a standard bladed impeller design or are they flat discs (bladeless impeller)? The only setting I am familiar with Tesla pumps being used is for pumping very viscous or abrasive fluids...

Also about this part can you elaborate more on exactly what you mean (preferably with a sketch)? Are you just saying your pumps have intakes on both sides and a single output?

The water going to and from the bilge is like to cones meeting at a point,two tornado's,the point being the impeller...

...Water goes in centre of these disc's via 2 intakes...

Please dont take my questions as criticism - just trying to understand exactly what your design involves.

 

[Subdredger]

Yes same as the turbine but reversed so is being used as a pump ,water pump into my nozzle which then sucks material.
If you you look at this picture you will see two arrows on it.
One direction for a turbine in which ,you PUT water into the big nozzle and it comes out the centre of the discs on Both sides,or the other arrow its a pump in
in which the water gets sucked into the centre of the discs on Both sides ,the bottom picture you see the pump is identical on the other side,which means you have
two intakes going in from either side hitting each other and because they are spinning,its like two vortex's hitting at a point.
i use discs as per patent as its the best way to use it.
You are correct in saying they use these as a sludge pump but they usually only use one disc as the material you are pumping is think.
I use 7 discs for water.
I use 2x1100ghr bilge pump motors on each side of this pump.the shaft goes through the centre of the discs and then the shaft is put onto the secound motor.
Reverse one motor polarity so the pumps work as a team.
There is next to no load on the pumps as they are discs and once up to rpm almost no load.
I use the same size pump on a number of dredges and just up the voltage on the pumps on the bigger dredges.
The green picture is water intake then go back to the red picture where you see it going into the discs then out the nozzle.

Hope this helps clear it up.

 

[Subdredger]

The bilge pumps i use as above is not very clear.

I use the motors of two bilge pumps joined to a long threaded shaft connected to the discs then out the other side connected to the
second pump on the same shaft .

 

[what]

Hope this helps clear it up.

Getting a much clearer idea of things. After I looked up the 4700gph bilge pumps you mentioned before the photos you posted made much more sense. The thing that is still confusing me is they only seem to have an inlet on one side like a normal impeller pump? Maybe I am just not seeing the second inlet on each pump in your photo that allows for the "two vortexes hitting at a point". I hope you dont mind I did this quick paint labeling of the inlets/outlets that I could identify to try and help get to the bottom of this.

Only other question I have is if you can snap a photo of one of your custom disc impellers and how you installed it in the pump. Pretty sure I am fully understanding that part at least but curious to actually see it.

I like your design a lot even if Im not sure I agree on some of the terminology you were using earlier in the thread to describe it. It is interesting the way you have pumps 1 & 2 outputting into the same place but pumps 3 & 4 outputting further inside the nozzle, not sure I have seen that in other designs but it would make sense to get the best bang for your buck with electric pumps. Thanks for sharing!

 

[jsurddy]

The issue with using a tesla design pump impeller is it doesnt have any kind of positive displacement to build pressure at low rpm. You have to spin it at incredibly high speeds to get the type of pressure you do from a regular curved vane pump. Even then you will still get a lot of slippage. You want the vanes to push slugs of water toward the volute casing. A mix of characteristics make them more efficient, like a smooth path for the water to change directions, a tight seal between the high and low pressure sides (to keep from recirculating), and getting the impeller vane angles to match the rpm you’re spinning the pump at. Keene and proline (and other designed like them) have done excellent jobs of meeting those design criteria. The closest to their design that you can get the better for a dredge. No reason not to experiment, though. That’s half the fun of being a miner!

 

[Subdredger]

That's a picture of my old stage 1 six inch dredge.
It runs the impellers that come with pump ,all I do is add a twist vein in that 90 degree inlet
Before the impeller so it focuses the vortex to the impeller then another vein on the outlet side.
My new dredges use the actual pump in the tesla patent

 

[Subdredger]

Getting a much clearer idea of things. After I looked up the 4700gph bilge pumps you mentioned before the photos you posted made much more sense. The thing that is still confusing me is they only seem to have an inlet on one side like a normal impeller pump? Maybe I am just not seeing the second inlet on each pump in your photo that allows for the "two vortexes hitting at a point". I hope you dont mind I did this quick paint labeling of the inlets/outlets that I could identify to try and help get to the bottom of this.

Only other question I have is if you can snap a photo of one of your custom disc impellers and how you installed it in the pump. Pretty sure I am fully understanding that part at least but curious to actually see it.

I like your design a lot even if Im not sure I agree on some of the terminology you were using earlier in the thread to describe it. It is interesting the way you have pumps 1 & 2 outputting into the same place but pumps 3 & 4 outputting further inside the nozzle, not sure I have seen that in other designs but it would make sense to get the best bang for your buck with electric pumps. Thanks for sharing!

Yeah the green 3 and 4 outlets are jets just after the trap.2 inch tubes with a product called knead it,to shape the jets.

 

[N-Lionberger]

Got a picture of the new design?

 

[Subdredger]

I will in time.
What i would like to do is put some more photos up of the stage 1 dredges,and different configurations of it, and trap all get all questions answered.
Stage 1 is dredge cable to riverbank to batteries.
stage 2 is dredge with power on board.
stage 3 is dredge with tesla pump and alternative power supply on board.
Can you let me know what you think about this,and can someone answer a question of mine,which is every now and then someone says you can no longer dredge in the states since 2009,
1- What happened?
2-Can you still dredge with electric?
3- If you can still dredge with electric,then there is no problem ,i will show you how?

 

[Reed Lukens]

I will in time.
What i would like to do is put some more photos up of the stage 1 dredges,and different configurations of it, and trap all get all questions answered.
Stage 1 is dredge cable to riverbank to batteries.
stage 2 is dredge with power on board.
stage 3 is dredge with tesla pump and alternative power supply on board.
Can you let me know what you think about this,and can someone answer a question of mine,which is every now and then someone says you can no longer dredge in the states since 2009,
1- What happened?
2-Can you still dredge with electric?
3- If you can still dredge with electric,then there is no problem ,i will show you how?

In 2009 dredging was only banned in California, but dredging is still alive and kicking in many places. So yes, you can still dredge with electric or gas in most places. I'm still really interested and ready, dredging starts here in Arizona next month when the rains start hitting, so the time is upon us and having built many dredges of my own along with having my designs used in many countries, I am really interested in all 3 stages of dredges that you make. I'm in a good place with time and ability to put things together. Stage 2 and 3 sound great being that they are totally portable. I run Solar also, so Stage 1 has just as much interest for me